is there any government certification required for h20/meth?
Water/methanol injection (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Otterav
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is there any government certification required for h20/meth?
I deleted the posts to save the info. I normally would can a thread with that many arguing posts.
So please in the sake of info on topic please move forward with water/meth talk. With out bashing of other systems.
So please in the sake of info on topic please move forward with water/meth talk. With out bashing of other systems.
- Thread starter
- #24
BB,
Thanks, i appreciate your efforts! In the interests of keeping this board civil, you could create a penalty box, too much bickering, time out for a week or so! Worked on another board i frequent.
eric
Thanks, i appreciate your efforts! In the interests of keeping this board civil, you could create a penalty box, too much bickering, time out for a week or so! Worked on another board i frequent.
eric
Okay, this may be a stupid question but I'll ask anayways. Is there any benefit to propane or water/meth injection on a non-turboed diesiel? Everything I have read on both just talk about turboed diesels. Although, I know that there are diesels running on strait propane or natural gas.
Tapage
Club 4X4 Panamá
At time I askj the same question ..
The answer that I get .. it's something like, yes you can get some little benefit .. but maybe could be more effort than benefit ..
I can answer half of your question. Using water/meth on a naturally aspirated diesel will yield marginal benefits. The people at Snow don't generally suggest it and I don't know of a kit that is designed for it. Seeing how most of these systems inject based on boost pressure I don't know how they would determine how much to inject on an NA. I guess it would have to be proportionate to the amount of fuel being injected.
Tapage - I'll try to take a few pictures over the weekend and maybe get around to doing something that resembles a write-up of my installation since you asked.
If anyone has questions about propane injection I suggest they start a new thread, as it really doesn't mesh well with this one and if we wanted to do a comparison we'd have to find someone who has experience with both systems....and I don't know of anyone here who fits that description.
Tapage - I'll try to take a few pictures over the weekend and maybe get around to doing something that resembles a write-up of my installation since you asked.
If anyone has questions about propane injection I suggest they start a new thread, as it really doesn't mesh well with this one and if we wanted to do a comparison we'd have to find someone who has experience with both systems....and I don't know of anyone here who fits that description.
If I was really worried about economy I'd drive a diesel Jetta 
I guess it's a question of what each person considers "adequate" power. This definitely isn't something that everyone is going to want to do.
Personally, I don't use it all the time because there's no need. During my normal daily commute I probably use it an average of 20 seconds in total. The main purpose for me was when I'm driving up the steep highway mountain pass hills with a whole bunch of gear and a boat on top. It's important to consider that I'm turning 34's with 4.10's. It takes a lot of work to move that thing up some of those hills and I can easily generate some really scary EGTs if I let it. The engine has the potential to unleash so much more power than it gets a chance to simply because of EGTs. When I'm in a 110km/h zone and I'm only going 95 because I'm at 1350F and the truck still WANTS to make a bunch more power, it just feels wrong.
Here's a scenario that I have had the chance to test quite a bit - driving up a big highway hill, not quite able to do the speed limit, watching only the pyrometer and keeping it pinned at 12-1300F. When I flick the switch and turn on the meth, there is noticable accelleration. Sometimes the EGTs will rise slightly, in which case I back off the pedal accordingly and get the EGTs back where I want them. What I tend to find is that I'm going about 20km/h faster with the meth on on the same hills at the same EGTs. It's not perfectly scientific but I can flick it on and off on a hill and watch the results on my pyro and speedometer.
The way I see it, you can choose 1 of 2 ways to benefit from the methanol injection:
1. You maintain the same road speed but at lower EGTs.
2. You decide that you can live with your current EGTs and you get to go faster and have better response.
I guess it's a question of what each person considers "adequate" power. This definitely isn't something that everyone is going to want to do.Personally, I don't use it all the time because there's no need. During my normal daily commute I probably use it an average of 20 seconds in total. The main purpose for me was when I'm driving up the steep highway mountain pass hills with a whole bunch of gear and a boat on top. It's important to consider that I'm turning 34's with 4.10's. It takes a lot of work to move that thing up some of those hills and I can easily generate some really scary EGTs if I let it. The engine has the potential to unleash so much more power than it gets a chance to simply because of EGTs. When I'm in a 110km/h zone and I'm only going 95 because I'm at 1350F and the truck still WANTS to make a bunch more power, it just feels wrong.
Here's a scenario that I have had the chance to test quite a bit - driving up a big highway hill, not quite able to do the speed limit, watching only the pyrometer and keeping it pinned at 12-1300F. When I flick the switch and turn on the meth, there is noticable accelleration. Sometimes the EGTs will rise slightly, in which case I back off the pedal accordingly and get the EGTs back where I want them. What I tend to find is that I'm going about 20km/h faster with the meth on on the same hills at the same EGTs. It's not perfectly scientific but I can flick it on and off on a hill and watch the results on my pyro and speedometer.
The way I see it, you can choose 1 of 2 ways to benefit from the methanol injection:
1. You maintain the same road speed but at lower EGTs.
2. You decide that you can live with your current EGTs and you get to go faster and have better response.
Do you have an intercooler installed? If not then installing one would give you all the benefits without having to be reinstalled 3 times a journey.
If you already have an intercooler, I'd monitor the outlet temps of it, it's possible a bigger one is necessary.
If you're still having EGT issues then more boost is necessary. Eventually you'll meet the strength limits of your engine with very expensive consequences.
Good point, Dougal.
I've avoided mentioning intercoolers just because of the ridiculous initial cost of any of the available kits. I agree that it's the ideal solution since it's always there and has no consumables. But they're (kits) all around $2300 Canadian (Safari, Denco, nobody else will respond to an email). I've tossed around the idea of doing my own custom setup but whatever I end up with won't be ideal and I'm at a stage where I'd rather just do it once and do it well.
I think I am going to do a Denco water-air IC setup in the next few months and then I'll see how the water/meth fits in with that.
And whaddya mean, "bigger intercooler"? I though there was only 1 perfect size.
I've avoided mentioning intercoolers just because of the ridiculous initial cost of any of the available kits. I agree that it's the ideal solution since it's always there and has no consumables. But they're (kits) all around $2300 Canadian (Safari, Denco, nobody else will respond to an email). I've tossed around the idea of doing my own custom setup but whatever I end up with won't be ideal and I'm at a stage where I'd rather just do it once and do it well.
I think I am going to do a Denco water-air IC setup in the next few months and then I'll see how the water/meth fits in with that.
And whaddya mean, "bigger intercooler"? I though there was only 1 perfect size.
I have seen used intercoolers off of 4.2L UD Trucks going for $350 US. That is what I plan to do when I finally get my rig turboed. Have a look around some of the import commercial truck wrecker sites in the US.
And whaddya mean, "bigger intercooler"? I though there was only 1 perfect size.
The penny pinchers at the car makers never stretch to "perfect".
An intercooler from Ebay or similar and installation by a good muffler shop should be well under the $1k mark. If you want to do more of the work yourself then costs can drop further.
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=181830
got this done in 1 friday night and 1 saturday
cost me about 600$ with everything (damn those silicone hoses are expensive!!!)
If I had to do it again I´d use stainless steel for the bends and use straight hoses to clamp them together, then again I had to get bends that went from 3" to 2.5" (3" on the cooler 2,5" out from turbo in to engine).
anywho hope this helps
got this done in 1 friday night and 1 saturday
cost me about 600$ with everything (damn those silicone hoses are expensive!!!)
If I had to do it again I´d use stainless steel for the bends and use straight hoses to clamp them together, then again I had to get bends that went from 3" to 2.5" (3" on the cooler 2,5" out from turbo in to engine).
anywho hope this helps
If you want to cheap out a little, fuel hose works fine for straight joiners. Cheaper than silicon and usually black or red.
I've seen radiator hose used, but the oil mist in the intake softens and eats the rubber over time.
I've seen radiator hose used, but the oil mist in the intake softens and eats the rubber over time.
Still using it, still happy, nothing negative to report.
It makes me go fast.
It makes me go fast.
The only downside to water methanol is paying for the methanol, and paying for the system - I'm curious as to the effects of only injecting water.
I wouldn't pay more than $100 for an intercooler and not much more for the tubing. I wouldn't pay more than $300 for a complete water methanol injection system. This $2300 number is an absurd amount to spend.
Why not make your own set-up, it's pretty simple (intercooler and injection)
I can't wait to reduce my EGT's using cheap, simple methods.
Adam, your injection test is scientific enough for me!
I wouldn't pay more than $100 for an intercooler and not much more for the tubing. I wouldn't pay more than $300 for a complete water methanol injection system. This $2300 number is an absurd amount to spend.
Why not make your own set-up, it's pretty simple (intercooler and injection)
I can't wait to reduce my EGT's using cheap, simple methods.
Adam, your injection test is scientific enough for me!
Home Depot sells "Turbo Washer Fluid", consists of 49% Meth/51% H2o, $2.99 for 3.78L jug, no mixing required.
Tapage
Club 4X4 Panamá
2300 bucks .? where do you get that number . ?
You can get a basic kit for less than 300 bucks ..
You can get a basic kit for less than 300 bucks ..
