Update! Az Engine Swaps "ouch" (1 Viewer)

Joined
Apr 10, 2009
Messages
368
Location
Tucson, AZ
I went to the state referee station this morning "Get Ready"! I was told that the State of Arizona will be enforcing the Federal Clean Air Act. Which means "NO" engine swaps what so ever. Same brand, year of vehicle only. No Grand Fathering either. Was told if you've had your swap for 5 years and you go the emission station and they say something isn't in compliance and send you to the state for compliance you will be in violation of Federal Law and you won't get your tags. Mind you this is for the city areas that mandate emmission testing. somebody please tell me I'm wrong! sorry matt
 

Mace

rock scientist..
Staff member
s-Moderator
Joined
Feb 17, 2002
Messages
21,631
Location
Las Vegas
Haven't read the bill. Just repeating what I was told by the State of Arizona officials. matt

They didn't really know what they were talking about. The EPA has no problem with engine swaps as long as you jump throught the proper hoops.
 

Spike Strip

My Butt's Been Wiped
SILVER Star
Joined
Nov 22, 2005
Messages
15,416
Location
Los Angeles
Print out the regs and take it with you and say show me...

Just like AZ SB 1070 -- Eveybody's ready to criticize, but none of 'em have actually read it.

Crips, even CA allows engine swaps to diff manufactures and diff years, if newer (cleaner).
 

Wile E Coyote

Out in the streets, they call it murder!
Joined
Sep 20, 2005
Messages
3,197
Location
Western AZ
I know there's been a behind the scenes push to tighten our smog regs, but the above is not the way I understand the Federal Clean Air Act. I have no reason to doubt you were told this, I just raise a big BS flag to the source that's all.
 
Joined
Mar 16, 2003
Messages
995
Location
Olympia, WA
I know there's been a behind the scenes push to tighten our smog regs, but the above is not the way I understand the Federal Clean Air Act. I have no reason to doubt you were told this, I just raise a big BS flag to the source that's all.

Exactly, that is why I always like to find out the bill numbers. If you have that, you can find all the language online and see what is really happening.
 

Elbert

SILVER Star
Joined
Jul 20, 2006
Messages
9,241
Location
AL, USA
I would not coach the smog ref on what you have....regarding your engine swap...surely they can't be worse than CA?

regarding emissions.....sure seems to me that a new engine polutes less than the old carb versions, but since I don't live where they smog check (yet) I don't know if the emissions rules apply to the year of the vehicle or the year of the engine (if you have a engine swap)
 

Mace

rock scientist..
Staff member
s-Moderator
Joined
Feb 17, 2002
Messages
21,631
Location
Las Vegas
I would not coach the smog ref on what you have....regarding your engine swap...surely they can't be worse than CA?

regarding emissions.....sure seems to me that a new engine polutes less than the old carb versions, but since I don't live where they smog check (yet) I don't know if the emissions rules apply to the year of the vehicle or the year of the engine (if you have a engine swap)

Typicaly, the "official" smog check is still for your vehicle year. But if you swap the motor, it has to keep all of the smog equipment for that motor.

Diesel adds a layer of complexity of course..


Clear air act does not prevent engine swaps.
 
Joined
Apr 10, 2009
Messages
368
Location
Tucson, AZ
Went back this afternoon and was told that if you look into the Federal Law I think he said after 1994 that at this point OBD and OBD2 has to stay in the vehicle that it was EPA mandated for. They won't even look at a swap they will just say it's in non compliance. A year ago it was like the switching law said. You could put any newer year, any type motor as long as all the equiptment for year motor was there. Not the case anymore. Let's get somebody in the Valley of the Sun check up there. I wouldn't want to be the guy in the referee line down here. At least not at this point. matt
 

Off Duty

SILVER Star
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
1,235
Location
Too far from the shoreline, in beautiful WTF Flori
Did YOU actually read the EPA regs yourself?
What do they say?

Now the state on the other hand, regardless of the EPA guidelines, can enact more stringent guidelines, and there's not much you can do about it but try to have it overturned.

And it's the STATE not the EPA that determines who recieves a tag in thier state;)
 

Wile E Coyote

Out in the streets, they call it murder!
Joined
Sep 20, 2005
Messages
3,197
Location
Western AZ
And it's the STATE not the EPA that determines who recieves a tag in thier state;)

Agreed, but as the OP noted the AZ ref stated they were using Fed regs for the standard. Hence, the verbiage in the Fed standard is what's come into question.

BTW, The way I remember one small detail differently that the OP posted is that OBDII didn't start until 1996.

We need to see the the exact wording (translated into everyday English of course) of the regs AZ is using.
 

Mace

rock scientist..
Staff member
s-Moderator
Joined
Feb 17, 2002
Messages
21,631
Location
Las Vegas
Went back this afternoon and was told that if you look into the Federal Law I think he said after 1994 that at this point OBD and OBD2 has to stay in the vehicle that it was EPA mandated for. They won't even look at a swap they will just say it's in non compliance. A year ago it was like the switching law said. You could put any newer year, any type motor as long as all the equiptment for year motor was there. Not the case anymore. Let's get somebody in the Valley of the Sun check up there. I wouldn't want to be the guy in the referee line down here. At least not at this point. matt

As has been said, go find the actual laws. the interpretation you are getting and relaying here does not make sense.
 
Joined
Feb 28, 2008
Messages
1,390
Went back this afternoon and was told that if you look into the Federal Law I think he said after 1994 that at this point OBD and OBD2 has to stay in the vehicle that it was EPA mandated for. They won't even look at a swap they will just say it's in non compliance.

All this is saying is you have to keep the same smog equipment that came with the car. How does this apply to 60/62s? they are before obd or obd2.

I live in Gilbert A/ Maricopa county/ Phoenix area and 7 months ago smogged my 5.7 ob1 tbi and 4l60e swap without hassle. Passed the visual and the sniffer with ease... They checked to make sure everything was under there but it had no hickups with the original smog equipment for the motor left in tack. I also installed the check engine light which is required.
 
Joined
Apr 10, 2009
Messages
368
Location
Tucson, AZ
Kurtis,

A year ago, newer year motor and it's equiptment was OK. I've been planning this for a year and I know from experience that you don't tell the referee's anything. I'm going to make a call to Phx and see what else I can find out.

Mace,

The quote from the EPA. EPA's policy allows engine switchs as long as the resulting vehicle matches exactly to any certified configuration of the same or newer model year as the chassis. Under the state law part at the end. The state can prohibit tampering in general and the state can determine what it's going to do.

I'm keep everyone posted on what i find out. matt
 

Moby

SILVER Star
Joined
Aug 25, 2005
Messages
1,528
Location
Trying to stack dimes
GM has introduced E-rod (E as in emissions) motors as a 50 state smog legal engine swap specific package. Take a look at these. Their computer reports as a special non production vehicle that has its own category to the smog testers. Not cheap but possibly the future of engine swapping and smog compliance. 6.2 (LS3/L99) and 5.3 are available.
 
Joined
Apr 10, 2009
Messages
368
Location
Tucson, AZ
Update:

Just talked to a person in the Phoenix referee station and it looks like we have some people with a GOD syndrome! Anything same model year or newer and all it's parts and pieces. A question was asked at the time of our conversation to a party that is with the BIG BOSS daily and he know nothing about the line of BS that was given to me. Maybe somebody we'll get set straight on this matter. SORRY about THE SCARE. matt
 
Joined
Oct 11, 2008
Messages
856
Location
Tucson, AZ
DMV

Update:

Just talked to a person in the Phoenix referee station and it looks like we have some people with a GOD syndrome! Anything same model year or newer and all it's parts and pieces. A question was asked at the time of our conversation to a party that is with the BIG BOSS daily and he know nothing about the line of BS that was given to me. Maybe somebody we'll get set straight on this matter. SORRY about THE SCARE. matt

Glad to hear. I just went into DMV in Tucson yesterday, and the dude at the counter (Yeepster guy, but 4wd) hadn't heard of anything like that either.

Glenn in Tucson
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom