Traction Control issues

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ozmanyyy

ozmanyyy

10 Year
Joined
Jan 2, 2014
Threads
20
Messages
73
Hi guys,

02 Land Cruiser, ~140K miles, OME medium lift/Diff drop. 285 AT3's.

I've been having some traction control gremlins lately. I did search and see that the consensus is a wheel speed sensor. But here's my story:

I've owned the car for about 2 1/2 years, and about 40K miles. From day 1, every time it rained or was damp out (without question), I'd get the ABS, VSC Trac, VSC Off, and Brake lights come on. Stop and start of the engine would clear the lights. I searched the forum and it seems pretty common so I didn't worry about it too.

Fast forward to about June. I'm slowing down at a light and all of a sudden, the car starts bucking like the brakes are kicking in hard. I see the green traction control light blink every time the brakes are kicking in. Same thing happens upon take off from the light. Once I pick up speed it's fine. It happens a few more times, only when slowing to a stop and taking off. Next time I drive it, it's fine.

I take it to my local guy and he sees codes for the rear right sensor and general ABS. He can't recreate it so he's not sure if that's it. I figure, change it out, since its probably what's been giving me the other lights all these years and seems consistent with the forum. He replaces it with the Toyota sensor.

A month goes by ( no rain during this time ) and alls well. Rainy day comes along, and I get the lights. Ok, whatever, they'll reset as usual. But then the traction control issue comes in. I call my guy and he says since its random, I should go to the dealer. So I go to the Toyota dealer that the local 4x4 clubs recommend.

He sees the same codes my guy saw again, but nothing else and they can't recreate the issue on a test ride. They replace the part free of charge, since it was a Toyota part in the first place. They figure the new sensor was bad. I thought that was pretty cool since they spent a lot of time on the car and didn't charge me anything at all.

Ok, fast forward another month. I'm driving after a rain storm. This time, no lights (vcs, brake abs etc) but the traction control issue happens again (with green "trac" light). Back to the dealer for several days. They call and say there's no codes at all and they can't recreate the issue after several drives in the rain or otherwise. They don't want to replace anything without a proper diagnosis and waive the diagnosis fee. They say that if it happens more consistently or if there's any other symptoms bring it back. They said that it's possible with the lift, that a wire may be stretched but I'm not sure if they actually looked for that. They also think the "rain/wet" thing is coincidence, but it sure seems pretty consistent with rain.

I'm thinking the wheel speed sensor thing was probably not related to the traction control issue in the first place, though I'm fine with having addressed it.

And to be clear, when this happens, the only light that comes on is the green "trac" light, no vcs or brake lights.

The randomness does seem like it could be a wire issue ( corroded or stretched or whatever) but I'm not sure where to look.

I think the Toyota dealer did treat me well, but if they can't find it, I'm not sure what to do next. This is happening at low speed stops/take offs so not critical yet but at speed it could be a real problem.

So, I'm open to suggestions, what else would you guys look for ?

Thanks and sorry for the long-winded post.

Oz
 
I Had an ABS sensor on my BMW R1200RT that came on every time it rained. I got used to it, but was pretty clear to me that there was water penetration in the wiring.
 
Ninja Cruiser100 said:
I Had an ABS sensor on my BMW R1200RT that came on every time it rained. I got used to it, but was pretty clear to me that there was water penetration in the wiring.
Click to expand...

Agree, I just don't know where the wiring is that I should try and inspect.

Thanks
 
So I just too a short ride to do an errand, and it happened again. So random. Coming to a stop, green trac light starts flashing and you can feel the brakes kicking in. Totally dry out. Very frustrating.
 
So I have another guy that I'm going to try to have look at it. I say try, because he's a couple of hours away. He had some good feedback for me and he comes highly recommended in these parts.

One suggestion was to drive around with a gauge on it to see if any codes pop up ( assuming we could recreate the issue ) to help diagnose if its a particular wheel sensor circuit or something else acting up. Does anyone know if a Scangauge picks up ABS codes or is it strictly the check engine variety ?

Also, would using the CDL turn off the traction control ? I know you're not supposed to really use it for long periods on non-slippery surfaces, but if I need to get out of a jam, it may be a temporary option to get home or whatever. I don't see anything in the owners manual that says how fast you can or can't go with CDL engaged.

Even better, if there's a sure way to disable traction control permanently, that would be perfect.

Thanks folks
Oz
 
when was the last time you replaced the battery?
 
Why can't it be that a sensor is getting wet? Is it difficult to get to them? Try some RTV on the cables. It just seems like to much of a coincidence it keeps happening during rainy days.

Just my .02 from reading your story.
 
ozmanyyy said:
I haven't.

I bought the car in 01/2014. I thought it was fairly new back but then but not sure. I haven't experienced anything to indicate the battery is weak but I can see if there's a date on it tonight.

You're thinking a weak battery could cause this?

Thanks
Click to expand...

that battery could be 5+ years old. I seem to remember others with traction light issues that were fixed with a battery. The more I think about it, whenever there is an issue with electrical, battery is prob the first place to start. 150 dollars seems like it could be a cheap fix.
 
here is another possibility

Slip Indicator issue while on highway


"I'll add my experience, albeit late, to your issue.

Errant activation of the skid control system can be a symptom of a worn out or wearing out steering rack.

My ride, 2001 LX470, 95K miles, had the same symptoms. Sweeping left turns on the interstate caused the beeper and lights to go off, after which the right front caliper would lock up and violently throw the vehicle to the right. The instances of lockup steady increased and got worse as the weeks went by. Then sweeping right turns would cause the lockup. Since this was a life threatening situation, I disabled the system by unplugging the three wire ABS cable from the bottom of the brake master cylinder. This was the simplest and easiest action to take as I didn't have to crawl under the truck and short the 4wheel drive sensor in the transmission. When I needed 4 wheel drive I'd just open the hood and plug the cable back into the master cylinder, and wheel away with the system working fine. Since I learned to drive on non-ABS vehicles, disabling it did not concern me.

Then I read all I could about dirty sensors, mismatched tires, bad driving behavior, high dealer cost, recalibrating the steering wheel, etc. Over the span of a few weeks I realized that my problem was not faulty sensors, but rather something that was wearing out over time and getting worse. Sure enough, with the skid control system disabled, I was able to discern that the steering rack was getting sloppy and required replacement. I also did the upper and lower ball joints, as well as the rack bushings and control arm bushings. All nice and tight now, and no more skid control problems. This vehicle still has mismatched/worn out tires, out of balance tires, out of alignment, steering wheel turned a little, and the skid control does not go off after the steering rack replacement.

Hope this helps."
 
I find it hard to believe that the dealer is unable to find the issue. I wouldn't keep throwing money at it as that would frustrate me worse than the problem. Take it to another dealer or ask them to call Toyota for assistance maybe?
 
My vote for leaky windshield dropping on ECU. Common leak, with unpredictable results. Do you have OEM windshield? Check for water behind glove box when it rains (or use a hose).
 
ozmanyyy said:
As far as I know it's oem. I can check tonight when I get home for "Toyota" markings. I haven't ever noticed any water coming in to the car, especially up front, but I guess it may not necessarily noticeable without inspection.

Thanks
Click to expand...
Yep, not noticeable unless it's way bad and you feel wet carpet with your fingers under glove box. But the first place it drips is on the ECU on the way to the carpet...
 
When I moderated a Land Rover forum ABS issues like this were common, you are supposed to do a complete brake fluid flush every 2yrs no matter the miles.
The brake fluid gums up the valves inside the ABS modulator/pump when it goes bad and then they cannot open/close properly causing all kinds of issues.
Second, next time it rains before doing anything open the hood, is the ABS modulator/pump making noise?
Do you hear relays in the underhood fuse box clicking?
I found the seal on my underhood fuse box was dried out and not sealing the fuses and relays from moisture.
I sprayed silicone spray onto the seal, lots of it. Enough to puddle and then moved the lid around moving the puddle of silicone all around the seal until it was all soaked up and the seal had swollen.
I wasn't having ABS issues like you, but my ABS pump/modulator was running as well as relays clicking after a hard rain or automatic carwash with underbody flush.
 
I would also do a complete brake fluid flush. Even if you do not find any signs of water.
 
ozmanyyy said:
Does anyone know if a scanguage would capture anything useful, abs codes or whatever? I'm wondering if I have one hooked up, maybe it can capture something that may help diagnose it.

Or does the scanguage just capture the same codes an obd tool would, cause I have one of those and it's not throwing any "check engine" codes.

Thanks
Click to expand...
Scanguage only reads OBD codes and parameters.
 
Have you contacted toyota to see what they say? This is worrisome especially with kids in the car. Not trying to make a huge deal, but what would be some of the affects?
 
Has anyone else seen this issue or know of a solution? I have an '04 LX 470 with 125000 miles that now has an error with a wheel speed sensor when its wet. When driving in rain or snow the ABS, brake, vsc trac and vsc off lights trip. Code was right rear wheel speed sensor. Restarting the car resets things usually. I have also seen it occur immediately on starting after being parked at work when it has rained. Would you replace the sensor? Thanks in advance.
 
tarpaigh said:
Has anyone else seen this issue or know of a solution? I have an '04 LX 470 with 125000 miles that now has an error with a wheel speed sensor when its wet. When driving in rain or snow the ABS, brake, vsc trac and vsc off lights trip. Code was right rear wheel speed sensor. Restarting the car resets things usually. I have also seen it occur immediately on starting after being parked at work when it has rained. Would you replace the sensor? Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

If the code keeps coming up for a wheel speed sensor then replace that sensor.
 
Ok. Yes. This was happening to me for some time. In my case it was the drivers side rear wiring harness. Right behind where the jack goes. Turns out the truck developed a bit of cancer in the body work and when ever it rained, or slushy snow, my vsc lights would come on. The wet was getting on the plug and causing me grief. Had a body shop cut out the cancer and weld in new panel. Problem fixed.

I had replaced both rear sensors already and swapped a computer to no avail.

Took me 18 months to pinpoint. Check it out on your truck. Other side is having the panel replaced in March. Oh and dielectric grease the plug when you check it!
 
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