Tlca 30% bylaw

[66fj40x2]

Well said Nick! I had a similar reply ready last night but it wasn't near as "tactful"......

I'd actually considered renewing once the tiered membership option is hammered out, but IF these comments reflect the mood of the adminstration and/or BoD then I truely have no use for TLCA.

 

[REKCUT]

Thats not at all what I said. My statement that you quoted is a summary of what I interpreted you to say in post 56.

You said

many of our clubs are standing down from participating in the conference calls because they ain't fun and they ain't productive.

This is a hinderance to the operation of month business conducted by the TLCA. It has to be a set number of clubs present on calls to be able to vote on issues.

You also stated

I sincerely believe that all of us place ourselves first, our local club second, and TLCA a distant third.

Based on those statements I asked why you would want want to keep your club status as a TLCA chapter? I specifically stated that all club members that are currently TLCA members, or any club member that wanted in the future to be a TLCA member, could still be TLCA members with the same benefits they have now. TLCA would still receive that same revenue and support they now receive from those individuals. Your club would not be hindered with any kind of rules and you would not have to participate in any type of unproductive or non- "fun" calls. Your club could attend all the events as a club that it currently does.

You statement indicated that many clubs are standing down from participating in elections. I asked the question based on what you indicated is already happening. Clubs not participating in votes.

I my thought were never to intended to mean that folks that are not part of the political process should leave the TLCA and I dont believe they indicate that. I do believe that if you have been put in the position of having a representative vote in the governing process of TLCA and you are choosing to not use that then you should give it up. I would expect that from a officer and I would expect that from a chapter.

My original line of thought on this entire thread was to get both sides to remove rules that they have no intention of following.

I read CC and WT as say they are going to remove rules they have no intention of following. Bravo. I would like to see TCLA follow this example.

I sincerely believe TLCA should encourage people, beg people, support people, and change rules they dont want to enforce.

IMO, what's missing in the rationale below is recognition that cruiserheads do things cause it's the right thing to do.

How is it the "right thing to do". There are several Toyota clubs that are not chapters but still have many TLCA members. How is impeding the governing process of the TLCA by standing down the right thing to do? The chapters hold 80% of the votes. (estimate).

 

[REKCUT]

I just have to keep restating my question as long as it continues to be misunderstood or misstated. I never said to "boot or to force any chapter to leave. " I ask for why would a chapter want to stay a TCLA chapter and not just be a Toyota club with TLCA members. I never asked why anyone would want to stay a TLCA member. The benefits you receive from TLCA are the same for individual members as they are for chapter members.

Your analogy of using the US is off in that I have never suggested that you leave the TLCA. It more closely follow a line of though for example, that you may have been a member of the Republican or Democratic party, and no longer wish to support or participate that line of thinking, so you decide to become independent. This in know way would ever cause someone to assume that you were going to drop your U.S citizenship.

I am asking a question based on a specific set of statements. One being that the TLCA has never been that important to anyone.

2) I sincerely believe that all of us place ourselves first, our local club second, and TLCA a distant third. TLCA has never been that important to anyone. I shutter to think what would happen if someone told a cruiserhead that they are not a member and they have to scrape a sticker off their truck.

Why, with these specific thought or feelings, would a club WANT to be a TLCA chapter. Not why should TLCA keep these chapters, not why shouldnt TLCA boot these chapters, not why shouldnt these members leave TLCA.

Why would you want to be a TLCA chapter and not just a toyota club with TLCA members.

I.E. WCLC, LCL, OMC, GC and probably many more.

Wanabecruisen, I welcome you questions and thoughts as I assumed that this was the point of this lengthy list of responses. All are intended to get members thinking and possibly moving in a positive direction for members, clubs, and TLCA.

 

[Bodean]

I think what Thad wants is TLCA chapters to participate in the calls if they want a voice. They have been begging people to participate so we can vote on things that need attention. I agree that if a club is a sanctioned club then they need to at least make the BOD call. I have missed several due to work/commitments but usually try to make them. It's just not important to some people and in the world we live in now there are bigger things to worry about. I can usually depend on about 6 or 7 of our members to show up for club meetings because they are dedicated to the club and actually enjoy the fellowship. Others might make a meeting every now and then and we welcome them with open arms every time they show up. Life gets in the way of a little ole redneck 4x4 club sometimes and we understand that.

I'll be honest and say that Nick hit it right on the head when he ranked it 1.Self, 2. Local Club, 3. TLCA when it comes to the 4x4 thing. The CLC will look at our by laws and we will do what the members want whether it's to stay a TLCA club or not. The fact is, in our case, the ones that want to be in the TLCA will stay and the ones that don't will just do the local club thing. We will still encourage TLCA membership (as I often do) and I will still enjoy TT.

Over and out

 

[TRT2]

Case in point. We have 67 voting officers and chapter delegates. The TLCA Bylaws reflect that we need 30 percent of all delegates and elected officers. This gives us 20. Now, the bylaws also state that if a chapter doesn't submit their Chapter in Good Standing Form, they don't have a vote. With that being said, there are at least 20 chapters that haven't submitted CGS forms in the last 2 years. We have had at least 3 meetings now that I remember that we've had to cancel due to a lack of quorum. We as the BOD (Elected officers and delegates) owe it to the membership at large to conduct TLCA business. We can't do this if we don't have participation. Depending on how you look at it there are certain rules that need to followed and are in place for a reason.

I understand everyone's point of view about the TLCA being loosely run, but on the same token, if we can't conduct business and keep our members happy and abreast of the challenges we face, we are not doing our job at the national level.

Friends... everyone is saying the same thing...

but packman73 is spot on correct. Part of being a Chapter in Good Standing is submitting your yearly roster, and sending a rep to the board meeting. No Roster, no vote. The association must have a quorum for votes, and that is a percentage of chapters in good standing. If you are not interesting in attending meetings, then do not pursue chapter status. Does not mean a club is less TLCA, simply means no one wants to be mired down in the business side of the association.

What needs to be done is the very first thing I did as Pres... Update our chapters. update means asking those interested to get current by submitting a roster and ensuring a Delegate is present, or simply dropping their Good Standing in the near term until they get current. This should not be construed as tossing chapters. It is simply file maintenance.

There was some discussion at one point of having two types of status, one voting, one simply listed in Trails.

I fully concur with getting our chapters current... and this simply ought to be done every year in January without discussion. When a rep calls in, you verify their status, and if remiss on Roster, ask for one.

As noted, chapters have a lot of autonomy or freedom, but there is some responsibility with being a Chapter in Good Standing, more than just adding a title. And clubs not having the Good Standing status does not mean they are any less supportive of TLCA, it simply means they don't want to send a delegate.

IMO.

 

[woody]

perhaps a purely voted-in BOD is a better option....one of the State associations for Wisc does just that...

Have the TLCA BOD consists of 17 elected positions:

President
EVP
AVP
MVP
Sec
Treas

2ea Central/Mountain Rep
2ea Eastern Rep
2ea Western Rep
2ea International Rep

5ea 'ad hoc' Reps (must all be from unique clubs or as individual members)

that puts 19 positions on the board, all voted

set the regional reps up to 2 year terms, 2 consecutive max
'A' gets voted in for the 2009-2010 term
'B' gets voted in for the 2010-2011 term
'A' runs again and wins for the 2011-2012 term
'B' runs again but loses, and 'C' wins for the 2012-2012 term
'A' can only hold 4 consecutive years max, so 'D' is elected for the 2013-2014 term
'D' proves incompetent after using wheel bearing grease on his birfields, so 'A runs and wins the 2015-2016 term, again for 2017-2018, but is forced to take 2 years off after that...

the 5 'ad hoc' positions could be set similar with 2 year terms...

all this might help create a 'leaner and more productive' TLCA, and put people on the BOD who are elected and interested, not 'begged'



--------------
now, before anyone questions the possibility of 'club overload', that issue would be no worse than now...what if only the Western clubs called in for a current TLCA meeting, made quorum, and voted a pile of changes thru? (yeah, there are other constraints, but for arguments sake)

 

[wardfoto]

well, just wow. please understand that we have already had to cancel one meeting, and nearly another due to lack of attendance on the monthly call in. we need to replace the avp, and we have only just been able to begin that because of lack of participation.
i don't believe it's about club politics, it's about being able to conduct business. if your club chooses not to involve itself in the politics, then why not simply stand down from chapter stautus, reduce the number of chaptered clubs, thereby reducing the number of people required to be in on the call, and we can get the business handled.
we are in no way kicking anyone out, and in fact we would all much rather see the chapters get us someone to represent the club on the call to help decide business, and to help keep a core group from being the only group handling business.
it's important that we have folks participate, because just stepping away and ignoring the issues will not bring about the change that may be needed. we in elected positions are really trying to make the club relevant, and vital in ways that will hopefully appeal to everyone that is a cruiserhead, and to bring some of the love of T.L.C.A. back to the hearts of our members.
it's a great club, and things are tough all over, and we are struggling with how to bring about the changes that can be enjoyed by all, and how to do it without spending all the money, and dying.
we have to consider how we go about this, in the interest of every member, and how we do this is by making changes that sometimes require a vote from chapters. if we don't have enough chapters calling in, it hurts the progress of these initiatives.
so, please, please, please, help us help you by finding someone in your chapter that is willing to step up and call in, because that is the much, much much preferred option.
we don't want to lose chapters. we don't want to lose members. we need to look at making all bylaws consistent, and maybe a little more open so that it's not such a pressure situation and we can handle what needs handling, and get enough chapter delegates calling in so that as many opinions as possible are used to steer us in the right direction, without stepping on toes, with as little politics as possible.
the fun has sort of been lost, and we are really working hard to change that, but we need the support of the chapter delegates to accomplish any of this. even if you don't participate in any other way, just being present on the call can allow us to proceed with business, and to get things done. that's all we ask. just participate, it's not a lot.
no the calls are not a happening scene, and it is business being handled, but we do go as quick as possible.

it seems the big question is what has T.L.C.A. done for me, and we are trying desperately to answer that question.
but, without the support of the chapters attending these meetings, it prolongs what we can do. so the clubs that no longer wish to be chapters could choose to stand down, and give us the head room needed to conduct business. this is the worst possible option, but it may be necessary.
however, if we had our druthers, we'd druther everyone call in, hang out for an hour, vote in business, vote in events to enjoy, keep the positions filled that need filling, and the like. don't leave, just call in. it's not a huge commitment, and we understand that sometimes life gets in the way. nobody will call you out for missing a meeting or two, we just need the delegates to call in with some form of regularity to help us bring back the joy of being a member of the T.L.C.A.
i realize this was long, and i apologize. if you have any questions for me, please feel free to pm me.
maybe i'm naive in my support of the club, and you should tell me so. but, whatever your stance, if you are an active chapter, please see if anyone in your club is willing to call in for one hour every month to help us get the club exciting and valuable to every member once again. please?

these are my views. please tell me how i can help your chapter get on board and steer us back to the joy of being a great club again!!! pm me with any questions... please.

 

[Bossman]

I'm just going to say this... the title of this thread was TLCA 30% Bylaw. I understand and appreciate the problems the current BOD is experiencing with lack of participation on the calls and hope that gets resolved soon. My comments were centered around the insinuation that local chapters might lose their chapter in good standing status if they choose to ignore the 30% bylaw. I personally don't care what kind of vehicle you own/drive at the moment. As long as you have an affinity for our beloved Landcruisers you "belong". I would think that this approach would be good for the TLCA as well.

I guess what I am trying to say is that it irks me to think that one might choose this particular issue (the 30% bylaw) as a mechanism to achieve a reduction in the total number of voting chapters in order to resolve the quorum issue.

I'd be much more comfortable if these discussions were seperated. Again, I appreciate the difficulty in making progress on any issue if you can't achieve a quorum in the monthly call and reducing the number of voting chapters may be the best ( though distasteful) approach to resolving this. If it is, make the changes that are needed based on participation in the calls and not for any other reason.

 

[Trollhole]

How about a report card or summary posted on the website of who was at each meeting? I'm sure there are quite a few clubs who's members have no idea if they are being represented or not.

When I first became a member of my club I signed up to become a TLCA member because I thought that was what I was supposed to do. Not because I was told. I wanted to be part of something bigger than just my local chapter as at that time I had the perception TLCA was something grander than what it really was. Officers at the time were also struggling with TLCA so it didn't help with getting people to renew. Yes, most new club members join TLCA but after a year or so they just quite renewing. That's why my TLCA# is in the 15's and today 4 years later we are I think close to the 20's. That's over a 1000 membership anual turnover. A 1/4 of TLCA's members. Why are they leaving?

If they don't belong to a local club but just want to be part of something and or just like the magazine then to them there is value in being a member because that is all they know. There is nothing else needed.

If they are a local club member and the club is doing fine but as a whole not feeling any love from TLCA your going to initially gain those members but then lose them slowly. Chapters have to have TLCA in their mind at all times. Local officers cannot do it on their own. They need your help. You have to determine the path you want TLCA to go in and stick with it.

One problem I see is the way the officers of TLCA are elected. Every year we have a different Pres or VP. How in the world they can share the same ideas when they are elected by a year apart is beyond me. I think they ought to be elected together at the same time. In fact I think all the officers should be elected at one time. Start new. Start fresh. Make the last year term be for 12 months but have elections 2 months prior and elect new officers and have them all work together new and old for two months making sure everyone knows what to do.

Also make sure when you have elections you actually inform your members who is going up for elections. Have each one write an article for TT, Web and e-mail.

Bring value to the clubs and in return they will bring members to you. The clubs are TLCA without them you wouldn't have a magazine. You really need to focus on them. You could cut about 3/4 of the budget out of TLCA if you ditched the mag. You would loose maybe 3/4 of you membership. That 1000 members would grow even more if it had a national backing from the clubs in return for some club support. Events, merchandise, discounts, and insurance. As well as keep pushing the TLCA website for those members who cannot be in a local club.

Instead of making the clubs abide by the 30% rule why not take it out of the equation to where there is such a value to being a TLCA member that it would be stupid not to join.

Another idea is to change the way TT advertises. Instead of asking for 1/4, 1/2,full page ads every 2 months. Have each company be able to have two ads each year. Give them 2 pages to have a mini catalog to show new products with prices. And quite charging so much for the ads. Charge them what the layout and printing costs us. No more. They support the local clubs, that is priceless to us. Plus I'd like to see what new products are coming out or new services added. Not the same old ad month after month. Would be nice to see what vendors have to offer all in one spot.

 

[wardfoto]

here's a thought. if we just change the bylaws to reflect that only toyota owners could be voting members, ie, delegates and officers, then it wouldn't matter who is in your chapter, or what they drive. they just wouldn't be able to be voting members, delegates, elected officers, etc of the club, or the chapter.
this would open the doors back up, and give us all some leeway. just brainstorming, so feel free to enhance, or shoot down, as you see fit. not trying to please everybody here, just a majority
thoughts?

 

[packman73]

I'm just going to say this... the title of this thread was TLCA 30% Bylaw. I understand and appreciate the problems the current BOD is experiencing with lack of participation on the calls and hope that gets resolved soon. My comments were centered around the insinuation that local chapters might lose their chapter in good standing status if they choose to ignore the 30% bylaw. I personally don't care what kind of vehicle you own/drive at the moment. As long as you have an affinity for our beloved Landcruisers you "belong". I would think that this approach would be good for the TLCA as well.

I guess what I am trying to say is that it irks me to think that one might choose this particular issue (the 30% bylaw) as a mechanism to achieve a reduction in the total number of voting chapters in order to resolve the quorum issue.

I'd be much more comfortable if these discussions were seperated. Again, I appreciate the difficulty in making progress on any issue if you can't achieve a quorum in the monthly call and reducing the number of voting chapters may be the best ( though distasteful) approach to resolving this. If it is, make the changes that are needed based on participation in the calls and not for any other reason.

We (the Coastal Cruisers) are currently having discussion about the TLCA bylaw that states we are allowed to have up to 30% non Toyota 4wd owning members in the club.
I personally have no issue with it, but am curious to see as what some of the other clubs have done in this regard.

Back to the original post...


Here are the current TLCA By-laws in regards to chapters. Section 3 is pretty specific in saying that chapter rosters may not exceed 30 percent non-TLCA members. It does not specify if they own Toyota's or not. It does specify that "All Chapter members eligible to join TLCA must join and remain current members in TLCA."

ARTICLE IV - CHAPTERS

1. A minimum of six (6) individual TLCA members, in good standing, who are owner operators may submit an application to become a Chapter.
2. The applying Chapter must submit a formal letter of application to the TLCA BOD and Bylaws for BOD approval prior to being voted upon for chapter membership. Application via email is acceptable.
3. Bylaws must include clauses that establish the following:
   1. A goal or objective of the Chapter is to "Support the TLCA."
   2. All Chapter members eligible to join TLCA must join and remain current members in TLCA.
   3. Chapter rosters may not exceed 30 percent non-TLCA members and non-TLCA members may not be used in constituting a quorum.
4. To be a "Chapter in Good Standing" the Chapter must comply with the following:
   1. Retain all Bylaws clauses from Section C above.
   2. Maintain four (4) current members who are TLCA members.
   3. Submit a current Delegate form.
   4. Be current on all financial obligations to the TLCA.
   5. Submit a roster of members yearly or as called for by the BOD.
5. Privileges of Chapters in Good Standing:
   1. Entitled to advertising privileges and discounts in the Toyota Trails.
   2. Invited to all BOD meetings.
   3. Invited to participate in all TLCA hosted and sanctioned events (participant and vehicle restrictions may be set by the event hosts).
   4. Entitled to one voting Delegate at all TLCA BOD meetings.
   5. Entitled to access and coverage by TLCA insurance.
   6. Access to the sanctioning of events by TLCA.
6. Responsibilities of Chapters in good standing:
   1. Each Chapter is responsible for registering their Delegate or Alternate Delegate including any changes, with the TLCA Secretary, using the appropriate Delegate Forms.
   2. Each Delegate or Alternate Delegate shall be a member of the Chapter they are representing.
   3. A Delegate or Alternate Delegate shall only represent one Chapter.
   4. Each Chapter shall submit a roster of members yearly or as called for by the BOD. This roster shall be submitted to both the TLCA Secretary and Membership Services.

 

[woody]

don't the SOP's supercede the Bylaws?

CHAPTERS
1. Minimum of six (6) individual TLCA members, in good standing, who are owner/operators may submit an application to be a Chapter.
2. Must submit bylaws for BOD approval prior to being voted upon for chapter membership.
3. Must submit a formal letter of application to the TLCA BOD.
4. Privileges of chapters:
1. Entitled to advertising privileges and discounts in the Toyota Trails.
2. Invited to all regularly scheduled BOD meetings.
3. Invited to participate in all TLCA hosted, sanctioned, Rally and Open events.
4. Entitled to one voting delegate at all TLCA BOD meetings.
5. Access to coverage by TLCA insurance.
6. Access to the Sponsoring of events by TLCA.
5. Chapter rosters may not exceed 30 percent business/non Toyota membership. The business/non Toyota membership may never constitute a quorum for any meeting.
6. All chapter members, i.e. Toyota owners, must join TLCA.

no where is 'chapter in good standing' covered...

 

[packman73]

don't the SOP's supercede the Bylaws?



no where is 'chapter in good standing' covered...

That's a good question, which I don't have the answer to. Nice catch.

 

[Green Lantern]

FWIW,
The SOPs were written to add detail to the bylaws. Originally, the bylaws reflected the general concept and the SOPs added detail. Both are enforceable. Tony Twiddy might chime in here on his memories of folks' intentions back in the late 70's. LOL

My understanding was that folks were concerned back then of TLCA losing its exclusive focus on Land Cruisers. The rules were written to ensure that cruiserheads would always rule.

HTH
Happy Trails! N

 

[packman73]

FWIW,
The SOPs were written to add detail to the bylaws. Originally, the bylaws reflected the general concept and the SOPs added detail. Both are enforceable. Tony Twiddy might chime in here on his memories of folks' intentions back in the late 70's. LOL

My understanding was that folks were concerned back then of TLCA losing its exclusive focus on Land Cruisers. The rules were written to ensure that cruiserheads would always rule.

HTH
Happy Trails! N

Just from searching through the bylaws and sop's. The SOP's reference the bylaws. The only reference to the SOP's in the bylaws is in regards to the IR's.

 

[Bossman]

"chapter rosters may not exceed 30 percent non-TLCA members." ..."All Chapter members eligible to join TLCA must join and remain current members in TLCA."

Correst me if I'm reading this wrong but does 1 + 1 not = 2? If all eligible members must join and remain in TLCA then it stands to reason that the 30% applies only to those not eligible to join TLCA (non toyota owners). We're right back where we started. Why do we care? I bought my first Landcruiser in 1979 and have owned many over the years. There have been brief periods that I found myself not able to affort to keep my toys and was without. Was I any less a Landcruiser fan during these periods? How would I have felt if my local club informed me that I was not welcome because my membership pushed them over the 30% mark? I can understand not extending voting privileges if that is the will of the membership but exclusionary practices seem counter to our stated goals.

 

[packman73]

Correst me if I'm reading this wrong but does 1 + 1 not = 2? If all eligible members must join and remain in TLCA then it stands to reason that the 30% applies only to those not eligible to join TLCA (non toyota owners). We're right back where we started. Why do we care? I bought my first Landcruiser in 1979 and have owned many over the years. There have been brief periods that I found myself not able to affort to keep my toys and was without. Was I any less a Landcruiser fan during these periods? How would I have felt if my local club informed me that I was not welcome because my membership pushed them over the 30% mark? I can understand not extending voting privileges if that is the will of the membership but exclusionary practices seem counter to our stated goals.

These rules have been in the bylaws for years. I'm not sure of the "why" but I would venture a guess that the original intention was to be exclusively for Land Cruisers. TLCA obviously can't enforce any of this and it's really up to the chapters to police themselves if they so choose. I'm not aware of anyone being kicked out of a chapter because they sold their Land Cruiser/Toyota 4WD. And I can venture to guess that if you fill out the TLCA application and put down that you own a Toyota, nobody is going to second guess it.

Exclusively inclusive... I'm copyrighting that right now!

 

[wardfoto]

which is why i suggested the above change. only toyota owners can vote, be elected, etc. to positions in the club, and chapter, and you can have as many non toyota owners as you want. they just can't be in positions that are vital to the toyota centric focus of the club, and chapter.
if you are keeping your dues paid, then you are a member. if you currently do not own a toyota 4x4, thn you simply can't be the delegate, officer, or such in the club or chapter. when that changes, then you can join in the fray, if you so choose.
simple, effective way to keep the toyota as the priority, keep as members those who don't, or can't own a toyota 4x4 , but keep the voting members toyota owners, without loss of the focus of the club. clears as mud yet?

 

[Bossman]

which is why i suggested the above change. only toyota owners can vote, be elected, etc. to positions in the club, and chapter, and you can have as many non toyota owners as you want. they just can't be in positions that are vital to the toyota centric focus of the club, and chapter.
if you are keeping your dues paid, then you are a member. if you currently do not own a toyota 4x4, thn you simply can't be the delegate, officer, or such in the club or chapter. when that changes, then you can join in the fray, if you so choose.
simple, effective way to keep the toyota as the priority, keep as members those who don't, or can't own a toyota 4x4 , but keep the voting members toyota owners, without loss of the focus of the club. clears as mud yet?

This I like.

 

[packman73]

This is already in the by-laws at the TLCA level...

ARTICLE V - BOARD OF DIRECTORS

The Board of Directors (BOD) is made up of Officers and Chapter Delegates. TLCA BOD members must be TLCA members in good standing. Each member of the Board of Directors, Officer or Chapter Delegate, is allowed only one vote. Contractors to TLCA may not vote.