Springs are complicated, my truck and me are both getting fatter. (2 Viewers)

[Stricmic000]

Summary, truck is sitting low and riding harsh after adding weight

Before:
99 lx
2 inch ironman pro lift kit on medium duty TOY013B-100 (3 inch foam cell shocks and extended control arms and Tbars)
dissent front and rear steel
1st and 2nd row installed and spare sitting in back of truck

Was set up level and drove amazing, Measured F21.25 and R22.5 and drove very well

After:
170 lb rtt
450lbs of various overlanding things in the back
(total of +600lbs over stock)

Problem:
Now sitting at F20.5 and R22 and riding harsh
not bottoming out but I also drive VERY slow on and offroad (get 12.5 mpg on 33's)

Fix?
Inflated airbags to 30 psi (should provide "800lbs of support")
That brought my rear back up to 22.5 and drove better again but not great, feels super heavy over bumps but drives and rides good on flat roads

Question:
I want to keep the 2 inch lift so I dont have to get control arms but I need heavier springs. The 2864 seem good but LOTS of people say they are way to harsh if your not heavily loaded and they are taller than the 2 inch setup so i would have to crosslevel or have way too much rake if i empty the truck out ever.

Options:

 

[ga12r1]

Ever thought about better shocks to control all that? 2.5" monotubes maybe?

 

[CORunner]

I have OME 2864 on my build and have been happy with them. Went through a similar process when deciding. Mine has a more weight with everything you have plus awning, roof rack, sliders, rear drawers, full skids, and 2nd battery. Ended up at 23.5" in the back but haven't checked if it settled at all since the install. Given yours has less weight, the OME2864 might be overkill.

Post on the added weight and suspension setup
Gudmundur 3.0 - Build - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/gudmundur-3-0-build.1228672/post-14151509

Post on rear spring rates
Gudmundur 3.0 - Build - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/gudmundur-3-0-build.1228672/post-14151551

 

[Stricmic000]

Ever thought about better shocks to control all that? 2.5" monotubes maybe?

I have 3 inch Ironman foam cell, I think they are pretty smooth but my only other experience in the uzj was failing AHC so its hard to say for sure

 

[ga12r1]

I have 3 inch Ironman foam cell, I think they are pretty smooth but my only other experience in the uzj was failing AHC so its hard to say for sure

The FCP has a 45mm piston. if you compare that to a 2.5" piston there's a huge difference. Basically double the surface area. I feel like shocks don't get enough attention when people are talking about ride quality. Spring are only part of the equation.
Springs hold up the truck and set the ride height. Shocks control the spring and movement. If you have the ride height you need why change the spring?

 

[Mike NXP]

I think ride quality is really subjective to opinion and experience. So i guess what I'm saying is the best you can do is fit springs and shocks to your vehicle that are rated for the extra weight you're carrying. Up front we do this by adjusting torsion bars and in the rear it's done by swapping springs . Compliment that with a shock to absorb the weight and it will ride better.

The weight you added isn't really like a lot and it only made your ride height drop a little bit so I wouldn't expect a big difference in ride quality. A few passengers in the back rows would equal about the same.

 

[Stricmic000]

I have OME 2864 on my build and have been happy with them. Went through a similar process when deciding. Mine has a more weight with everything you have plus awning, roof rack, sliders, rear drawers, full skids, and 2nd battery. Ended up at 23.5" in the back but haven't checked if it settled at all since the install. Given yours has less weight, the OME2864 might be overkill.

Post on the added weight and suspension setup
Gudmundur 3.0 - Build - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/gudmundur-3-0-build.1228672/post-14151509

Post on rear spring rates
Gudmundur 3.0 - Build - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/gudmundur-3-0-build.1228672/post-14151551

Excellent write ups, and sound advice thank you!

 

[Stricmic000]

I think ride quality is really subjective to opinion and experience. So i guess what I'm saying is the best you can do is fit springs and shocks to your vehicle that are rated for the extra weight you're carrying. Up front we do this by adjusting torsion bars and in the rear it's done by swapping springs . Compliment that with a shock to absorb the weight and it will ride better.

The weight you added isn't really like a lot and it only made your ride height drop a little bit so I wouldn't expect a big difference in ride quality. A few passengers in the back rows would equal about the same.

True, I am sort of planning for the empty truck, once we add pax and food and camping equipment we are closer to 1100lbs over stock and sometimes we carry a 150lb hitch rack, I supposed I could go slightly oversprung with the 2864 and when im loaded it would be correct.

I thought using "airlift 1000" bags would be enough to compensate, it does lift the truck and make it stay higher BUT its pretty harsh and sways side to side really bad on large bumps, feels like a ferry boat

 

[Land Shark]

True, I am sort of planning for the empty truck, once we add pax and food and camping equipment we are closer to 1100lbs over stock and sometimes we carry a 150lb hitch rack, I supposed I could go slightly oversprung with the 2864 and when im loaded it would be correct.

I thought using "airlift 1000" bags would be enough to compensate, it does lift the truck and make it stay higher BUT its pretty harsh and sways side to side really bad on large bumps, feels like a ferry boat

I too have been using air bags to control height and lesson learned there is I should only be using them when towing. I think, like said before, a good set of shocks will help tremendously.

 

[Mike NXP]

True, I am sort of planning for the empty truck, once we add pax and food and camping equipment we are closer to 1100lbs over stock and sometimes we carry a 150lb hitch rack, I supposed I could go slightly oversprung with the 2864 and when im loaded it would be correct.

I thought using "airlift 1000" bags would be enough to compensate, it does lift the truck and make it stay higher BUT its pretty harsh and sways side to side really bad on large bumps, feels like a ferry boat

I hear that, I'm not a big fan of airbags for off road builds , just my opinion. Proper spring and shock setup is key. I see you hit up crkey mike let's see if he can set you up right. I'm running then dobinsons shocks and coils in rear......

Remember , you added 100lbs of drawers but you removed probably , close to , that much worth of third row seats ....do you have a scale at your local dump ? Should go weigh in

OEM up front is solid for most builds . Since you said the ride quality was good before adding weight you may just need to get your spring setup dialed in

 

[Stricmic000]

After compiling lots of data and reading lots of posts, these are some of the rear spring options avalaible and their comparision to stock lc100 rear springs

34% heavier 2% LONGER
"Ironman medium 0-440" (229lbs, 495mm)

47% heavier 4% shorter
"OME sof2rh" (250lbs, 465mm)

47% heavier 1% longer
"OME 2863" (250lbs, 490mm)

61% heavier 2% shorter
"IM heavy 440-880" (274lbs, 475mm)

62% heavier 2% longer
dobinsons c59-185 (277lb, 490mm)

88% heavier 1% longer
"OME 2864" (320lbs, 490mm)

92% heavier longer
dobinsons c59-171 (328lb, 495mm)

My weights
Stock 5400lbs
BEW basic empty weight= Stock + RTT, Steel bumpers, Awning =+350 lb =5750 lbs
Normal weight= BEW + Tool box, spare, shelving, recovery gear, table/chairs =+325 lbs = 6075 lbs
Overlanding= Normal weight + fridge, Ecoflo, camping gear, food, 2 passengers, water=+700-1000 lbs = 6775 / 7075lbs

Hub to Fender Measurements
1. has not been Cross leveled after the RTT
2. has ironman foam cell pro 2 inch lift kit with medium springs

Stock before lift and bumpers
No airbags 19.5 front 21.5 rear

BEW
Airbags empty 20.4 front 21.75 rear
airbags full 20.6 front 23 rear

Normal weight
Airbags empty 20.25 inches front 21.75 inches rear
airbags full 21.25 inches front 22.25 inchs rear

Overlanding
No Data

 

[Stricmic000]

After compiling lots of data and reading lots of posts, these are some of the rear spring options avalaible and their comparision to stock lc100 rear springs

34% heavier 2% LONGER
"Ironman medium 0-440" (229lbs, 495mm)

47% heavier 4% shorter
"OME sof2rh" (250lbs, 465mm)

47% heavier 1% longer
"OME 2863" (250lbs, 490mm)

61% heavier 2% shorter
"IM heavy 440-880" (274lbs, 475mm)

62% heavier 2% longer
dobinsons c59-185 (277lb, 490mm)

88% heavier 1% longer
"OME 2864" (320lbs, 490mm)

92% heavier longer
dobinsons c59-171 (328lb, 495mm)

My weights
Stock 5400lbs
BEW basic empty weight= Stock + RTT, Steel bumpers, Awning =+350 lb =5750 lbs
Normal weight= BEW + Tool box, spare, shelving, recovery gear, table/chairs =+325 lbs = 6075 lbs
Overlanding= Normal weight + fridge, Ecoflo, camping gear, food, 2 passengers, water=+700-1000 lbs = 6775 / 7075lbs

Hub to Fender Measurements
1. has not been Cross leveled after the RTT
2. has ironman foam cell pro 2 inch lift kit with medium springs

Stock before lift and bumpers
No airbags 19.5 front 21.5 rear

BEW
Airbags empty 20.4 front 21.75 rear
airbags full 20.6 front 23 rear

Normal weight
Airbags empty 20.25 inches front 21.75 inches rear
airbags full 21.25 inches front 22.25 inchs rear

Overlanding
No Data

according to this data and input from others, it looks like the dobson 171 or ome 2864 will be the spring I choose

 

[Mike NXP]

Best I can tell you is, I am almost the exact same weight at 7k lbs loaded and here are my numbers

Front - Fully stock Toyota OEM shocks and bars with about 19.5-20". ARB bumper, lights, 12k winch.

Rear - Dobinsons GS59-682 shocks and C59-185 Coils and I sit pretty high at about 22". Sleeper platform, roof rack, fuel cans, spare swing out, bumper, etc.

I off road the piss out of this truck but I'm not a big moab rock crawling type of guy. I go through plenty of off angle 4 low climbs through the mountains and I really like this setup.


Again, shocks, suspension , tires, ride quality is all very very subjective to the person commenting on it. Focus on your weights and pick a name brand that can accommodate it. I've had good luck with Dobinson's, bad luck with Old man emu, but that's just me. I think ditching your airbags for a proper spring setup will make a big difference but I'm not basing that on much evidence.

 

[Bomar]

If you like sitting on your tailgate so Slee Heavy springs and airbags.

I went all the way to springs for bullet proof 80s from OME and went back to Slee Heavies

 

[Exiled]

I've run 2864s for 15+ years on a heavy UZJ100 (4x4Labs rear bumper, sliders, custom front bumper w/winch, bumper-mounted full size spare on steel wheel, RTT, roof rack, and now 24-gallon auxiliary fuel tank). Tank is full right now and I went out to check a few minutes ago and she's sitting at 22.5" in the rear.

The ride is great on it and has only gotten nicer over time (in my opinion, which I agree is subjective).

 

[Stricmic000]

Best I can tell you is, I am almost the exact same weight at 7k lbs loaded and here are my numbers

Front - Fully stock Toyota OEM shocks and bars with about 19.5-20". ARB bumper, lights, 12k winch.

Rear - Dobinsons GS59-682 shocks and C59-185 Coils and I sit pretty high at about 22". Sleeper platform, roof rack, fuel cans, spare swing out, bumper, etc.

I off road the piss out of this truck but I'm not a big moab rock crawling type of guy. I go through plenty of off angle 4 low climbs through the mountains and I really like this setup.


Again, shocks, suspension , tires, ride quality is all very very subjective to the person commenting on it. Focus on your weights and pick a name brand that can accommodate it. I've had good luck with Dobinson's, bad luck with Old man emu, but that's just me

Best I can tell you is, I am almost the exact same weight at 7k lbs loaded and here are my numbers

Front - Fully stock Toyota OEM shocks and bars with about 19.5-20". ARB bumper, lights, 12k winch.

Rear - Dobinsons GS59-682 shocks and C59-185 Coils and I sit pretty high at about 22". Sleeper platform, roof rack, fuel cans, spare swing out, bumper, etc.

I off road the piss out of this truck but I'm not a big moab rock crawling type of guy. I go through plenty of off angle 4 low climbs through the mountains and I really like this setup.


Again, shocks, suspension , tires, ride quality is all very very subjective to the person commenting on it. Focus on your weights and pick a name brand that can accommodate it. I've had good luck with Dobinson's, bad luck with Old man emu, but that's just me. I think ditching your airbags for a proper spring setup will make a big difference but I'm not basing that on much evidence.

these numbers look perfect, thanks!

If i get swingouts and move that weight back i think 185 springs would be great then

 

[Stricmic000]

I've run 2864s for 15+ years on a heavy UZJ100 (4x4Labs rear bumper, sliders, custom front bumper w/winch, bumper-mounted full size spare on steel wheel, RTT, roof rack, and now 24-gallon auxiliary fuel tank). Tank is full right now and I went out to check a few minutes ago and she's sitting at 22.5" in the rear.

The ride is great on it and has only gotten nicer over time (in my opinion, which I agree is subjective).

wow thats high with that much weight

 

[harshjay]

okay, so say you have AHC, want to keep, and drive around at 7200lbs...what you going to pick now?

I currently have the kings, and they are very soft.

 

[GTV]

okay, so say you have AHC, want to keep, and drive around at 7200lbs...what you going to pick now?

I currently have the kings, and they are very soft.

OEM non AHC coils from an LC.

 

[Stricmic000]

OK
Just went to the scale...
As loaded for camping fully equipped were at 6460 plus driver and pax
Emptied out for normal daily driving (spare tire and some other random stuff) its 6040 plus driver
Completely emptied out for a big Costco run were at 5900

loaded 6680lbs (driver inside)
1 inch lift 1.4 rake
20.4 front
22.3 rear bags full 30 psi Drives decent, a bit tippy and too soft
21.8 rear no bags. Drives poorly, harsh and rolls all around

empty at 6040lbs
1 inch lift 2 inch rake
20.5 front
22.8 bags full 30 psi
22.5 rear no bags

(still on ironman foamcell pro kit with medium springs)