slider cost - d@mn!

[firetruck41]

"Slee's sliders cost so much cause that's what people are willing to pay." is what I said. You say - "If people were not prepared to pay for them we would not sell them." It's too sides of the same coin. People being willing to pay for them does not imply quality, availabily or profit....
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
...By saying Slee 80 series sliders cost so much more than Taccoma, or 60 series, or Jeep sliders is "because that is how much it costs to make a quality products, keep them on the shelve ready to ship, sell them, make some profit and keep the doors open." is effectively saying, that all sliders made for any other vehicle that cost less are not quality, or the companies are going out of buisness. This is quite rediculous. They cost less because volume drives competition! Volume drives efficiency! Volume drives more proffit off of lower proffit margins! Volume drives manufacturing tecniques that are impractical at lower volumes!

You've really got a handle on things! I'll give you $50 capital to be half partner in your 80 series slider manufacturing business. Once you start selling 1000 sliders a year I'll be on my way to being a millionare.

 

[Beowulf]

Heath, meet Shotts. Shotts, meet Heath.

You two will get along swimmingly.

-B-

 

[TiredIronGRB]

If you can't afford them don't buy them.
If you can make them, then make them.
If you don't need them, then it doesn't matter.

Next...

 

[MoJ]

"Slee's sliders cost so much cause that's what people are willing to pay." is what I said. You say - "If people were not prepared to pay for them we would not sell them." It's too sides of the same coin. People being willing to pay for them does not imply quality, availabily or profit. Kinda like Hummer H2's. People are willing to pay so much for them, and that's why GM sells them at that price. It doesn't really imply quality, proffit, or the lack of either.

I think you'd be surprised at the low margins in the mass manufacturing industry. The company that employes me makes 1.4million units a year. Some units, all the market will bear is a cost that is less than what it cost to manufacture. Other units, the market will bear a much higher possitive margin - cause that's what people are willing to pay. It says nothing of the quality of either unit. The dirty truth is, they're built on the same production lines, by the same people and are pretty much the same quality. We're kinda the supplier to the Jeep Industry - big #'s made each year - big market. There is a large group of competators for this market, it keeps the cost to the consumer down.

There is another market segmant for the same product, only they're willing to pay 2-3 times as much. Problem is, there aren't that many of them. So there aren't that many competators for this market. The proffit margins are huge with these companies by comparison. They have to be, when you only sell a few thousand units a year versus a few million, you have to make all your money on those. Quite honestly, their quality is actually worse than ours. This is the 80 series consumer. There aren't many of them, and there aren't many options for them.

Big market - lots of competition - drives price down.

Small market - not alot of competition - allows higher prices.

Neither intrinsically guarantees quality or demands the lack of it.

By saying Slee 80 series sliders cost so much more than Taccoma, or 60 series, or Jeep sliders is "because that is how much it costs to make a quality products, keep them on the shelve ready to ship, sell them, make some profit and keep the doors open." is effectively saying, that all sliders made for any other vehicle that cost less are not quality, or the companies are going out of buisness. This is quite rediculous. They cost less because volume drives competition! Volume drives efficiency! Volume drives more proffit off of lower proffit margins! Volume drives manufacturing tecniques that are impractical at lower volumes!

Other than Heath's inability to spell key phrases such as "profit" there's a lot of truth in that.

As far as setting price.....sure no one set down over a beer and determined the price but since the market is limited and effectively a duopoly (A situation in which two companies own all or nearly all of the market for a given type of product or service) pricing "inefficiencies" will result.

That being said, quality in the 80 series market is essential. If for one instant either firm built a less than quality product it would be all over this forum and their sales would be impacted. Getting it right is essential.

I have complete confidence that the product offerings are the absolute best on the market and best you can get for the $. If you don't count your personal labor time and you have the skills of course you could build something at less cost.

 

[Walking Eagle]

Umm, Heath, not trying to be a smart ass here but i under stand economics. Thanks for the refresher though.

I don't see how the market would bare a lower cost/profit margin on the sliders that slee or hannah makes? These guys would not be able to keep the doors open and come chat/give advice on these boards if the profit were much lower. I'm kinda guessing there, but i'm sure the mark-up isn't truely that high based on demand vs. production costs. THey produce a quality product that a segment of the off-road population are willing to pay.

You're right, the 80 series market probably wouldn't bare it. The Jeep market can bare it.

Everyone seems to be defending their price and proffit margin and quality to me. I don't remember ever saying anything negative about it. I'm quite sure the mark-up is more than anyone would guess, just knowing the price of steel, and labor. But it has to be higher than the guys making 3 times as many Jeep sliders - or the doors close - but I'm pretty sure I already said that.

 

[MH_Stevens]

When goods are offered for sale in our free economy the price is set by the seller, who if a skilled merchant, will price his good to maximise his gross revenue so as to get a balance between selling a few items at a big profit and a lot of items at a small profit. From the consumers angle competing products need to be compared so buyers with no budget limit may find the best product and buyers with a limited budget may find a product they can afford. When I asked who other than Slee and Hanna make "off the shelf" sliders for 80's I got no response so I will assume these are the only two suppliers. As Slee and Hanna seem to to have price fixed (at $835) the answer to the original posters question appears to be simply this; a specialised small market with little or no competition.

Mike S

 

[Walking Eagle]

You've really got a handle on things! I'll give you $50 capital to be half partner in your 80 series slider manufacturing business. Once you start selling 1000 sliders a year I'll be on my way to being a millionare.

Yep, I do have a handle on things. That's why I know with two quality suppliers out there already, and a small market, it'd be foolish to try and get in on it. Better to go to a smaller market with no suppliers, like the Honda Pilot on 44" tire market, not a lot of competition there, can charge what ever I like.

 

[firetruck41]

I guess you did not detect the sarcasm in my reply, you in fact do not have a handle on things. You and I both know you will not begin manufacturing a lift to fit 44" tires on a Honda Pilot, as there is a lot more to making a living than supplying something that is in low demand, if that were the case GM would not be contemplating bankruptcy right now.
The willingness of someone to pay for a product does indeed involve quality and value (real or perceived), availability, and desirability as well as other factors. Remember the cheap Ironman 80 series springs, they were competitively priced, intended for a limited market (the same as 80 series sliders) but were crappy, and they aren't around anymore, that I know of...

Everyone seems to be defending their price and profit margin and quality to me. I don't remember ever saying anything negative about it.

You make negative inferences through out your posts, here's one:

...They have to be, when you only sell a few thousand units a year versus a few million, you have to make all your money on those. Quite honestly, their quality is actually worse than ours. This is the 80 series consumer...

 

[cruiserdan]

I'm quite sure the mark-up is more than anyone would guess

Bull@&@&@&@&.


Let's add in a bit of brick-and-morter, employee expense, payroll taxes, power bill, gas bill, phone bill, UPS bill, tax bill, water bill, sewer bill, ISP bill, vendor bills, tool truck bills, INSURANCE bills, LIABILITY bills...........


A sale without a profit is a GIFT..........


Who here runs a gift shop?...............

 

[firetruck41]

A wise man once said: "A sale without profit, is a gift"

 

[FirstToy]

Don't even take into account Slee or Hanna's prices... and don't compare with a Jeep that weighs less than a FZJ80's left nut.

Look at the rest of the Toyota offroad community. There must be at least 20x more Tacoma/Tundra/4Runner slider sales.
What do those vendors charge for square/round hybrid bolt-on sliders w/ DOM tubing & powdercoating of a comparable weight vehicle?

You are easily looking at $650+ if they even offer all the features of the "terrible 2"

You can certainly buy cheaper weld-on sliders for rock bottom prices. There is nothing stopping you from doing that.

There is the DIY option- (which I always enjoy seeing posted, some very thoughtful ideas)

Simple fact of the matter is you can buy or not. The price seems high on first look but once you see the whole picture, how can it be any other way? If you disagree, vote with your wallet.

I sure wish I could fully kit my 80 for $50 but Harbor Freight isn't selling sliders or armor yet... I want to save a buck just like the next guy but attacking vendors isn't productive.

Look at your choices and get on with it, enjoy the rig.

 

[Gumby]

The origonal question wasn't if they were worth the money or too expensive, the question was why are they so much more than any other rig.

Slee's sliders cost so much cause that's what people are willing to pay. Just like when anyone here sells their truck, they're going to try to get whatever the market will bear.

You are not paying attention. They cost so much because they cost to build them. They are a bargin when you factor in all of the costs.

 

[Walking Eagle]

You are not paying attention. They cost so much because they cost to build them. They are a bargin when you factor in all of the costs.

Yes, I am paying attention, are you? They cost more than sliders for other vehicles because the demand for them is so much lower. Which drives cost, and drives the need for higher proffit margins.

 

[Gumby]

Most of the above posts said that the cost of materials plus the cost of labor made them expensive. I saw nothing about "high profit margins" from those that have built them.

I saw a few posts from those who have built them themselves that said it wasn't worth it. That doesn't suggest the vendors are soaking the buyers with "what the market will bear"

 

[Walking Eagle]

You make negative inferences through out your posts, here's one:

Nice way to quote out of context. The statement about quality was about the manufacture of a low volume product of the same type that the company I work for makes. Then there was an end to that sentence, and then the statement that this is the 80 customer - not many of them.

If I wanted to say something about Slee's sliders quality, I would say straight out "Slees sliders are _________"

 

[Walking Eagle]

Most of the above posts said that the cost of materials plus the cost of labor made them expensive. I saw nothing about "high profit margins" from those that have built them.

I saw a few posts from those who have built them themselves that said it wasn't worth it. That doesn't suggest the vendors are soaking the buyers with "what the market will bear"

Does the term high profit margin just get everyone in an uproar or something? It's the nature of manufacturing. Low volumes DICTATE higher profit margins, or companies go under. Just because I'm saying that a low volume shop like Slee's has to have higher profit margins than a company making 12 times the volume, does not imply soaking. There is also absolutely nothing wrong with charging what the market will bear. If billy bob's bumpers could sell the same volume of Chrysler Newport bumpers at $1200 as at $1000, they'd be pissing away money to sell at $1000. There is nothing wrong with that.

 

[Gumby]

I'm sorry. I posted without reading the second page. Had I done that first, I would have realized many smart people had already said the same thing and you didn't listen to them either.

I've got enough SPED students to feel the need to educate another on the weekend.

 

[Walking Eagle]

Bull@&@&@&@&.


Let's add in a bit of brick-and-morter, employee expense, payroll taxes, power bill, gas bill, phone bill, UPS bill, tax bill, water bill, sewer bill, ISP bill, vendor bills, tool truck bills, INSURANCE bills, LIABILITY bills...........


A sale without a profit is a GIFT..........


Who here runs a gift shop?...............

Who said anyone should sell without a profit? I don't even recall saying that the low volume guy's profit margin was excessive, just higher than the high volume guy. It's simply the nature of things.

The company I worked for in Wisconsin, produced 1400 units a year. Still had all the overhead you're talking about, and our Profit Margin was 100%. We took the cost to build (material + labor + O.H.) and doubled it. That was the cost to our distributors, who then doubled that cost to the customer. If we were only making 10% PM, it wouldn't have been worth while to be in buisness with only 1400 units.

Company I work for now, probably on average makes less than 1% PM. But at 1.4 million units a year, it's still worth being in buisness. Kinda like that old saying, we loose money on every one, but make it up in volume.

 

[Walking Eagle]

I'm sorry. I posted without reading the second page. Had I done that first, I would have realized many smart people had already said the same thing and you didn't listen to them either.

I've got enough SPED students to feel the need to educate another on the weekend.

Piss off Gumby. You obviously don't know @&@&@&@& about ecconomy of scale. If you take out all the defending of a price vs. quality that has nothing to do with the origonal question, that's what it boils down to. The more you make the cheaper it is to make them, and the less profit you have to make on each one. End of story.

 

[landtank]

What I'm surprised at is nobody offers the outriggers only as a sale item. That way people could save quite a bit on shipping these things on special pallets by trucks. I'd bet Christo could make the same money on outriggers only as he does his whole slider and people could easily weld up the remainder of the slider and then finish them however they want and save some cash. Everyone is happy.