Since the 3FE is slow, why no aftermarket support?

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timbercruiser said:
The 151 goes behind the 3FE or the 1FZ, or both? I was under the impression that the H55 would work in the early 80 series (91-92) because of the 3FE.
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Well the main main difference between the two is the size of the transmission. The 151 has a whole different shape to it, that was basically made to fit the 80 series, the h55 was put into the 60 series. You *may* be able to do the h55, but there would be a lot of fabrication involved. The last 151 we did went into a 91 FJ80, it fit very nice. When we ordered it out of australia, we also got the clutch, flywheel, clutch slave, support brackets, pedal assembly, bellhousing etc. It was still a bit of work to install.
 
The h151 is pretty expensive yes, but so is the h55, either way you have to get all of the neccesary parts to do the conversion. Putting the 151 into a 91-92 would be about a :banana: :banana: :banana:. h55 into the 91-92 is a :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:. One of the things I would worry about doing the h55 in an 80 is the flywheel and clutch, they are different from the h151. Either way, outside of the cost, if you have an FJ80, looking into the h151 will be a much easier conversion. If anyone out there has an FZJ80, you will also need to do the h151. The bolt pattern for the h151 is the same as the 1fz. Toyota made an adapter ring for the h151 to put it up behind the 3fe in the 80 series. Sorry if this was confusing or I missed anything (which I probably did) I'm new to the banana rating system by the way. Steve
 
Has anyone rasied the compression in their 3FE? I had about 1000 miles on my rebuilt 3FE with a 0.040 over bore & domed pistons, before I parted out my FJ-62. There was a noticable increase in power, it reved a little quicker, but nothing in the 350 range. The 3FE is waiting for me to install it in my 60, but I wanted to know if anyone (other than overhanger or dd113) have achieved higher compression either by pistons or head milling? And what other mods done in conjunction with that would maximize power output? I plan on some better flowing exhaust, TB-bore, cooler ND plugs, injector cleaning, and adjustment of the air meter. After that I think all the other mods will cost a lot of dough. Is there more that can be done?
 
Just curious, would a port and polish yeild any better preformance? I am also still curious about the affects and where to get a mild cam (for the 2F I know, but it was said it works on my 3F). Next week I am getting my birfs done, and I figure while my cousin has it in the shop I'd let him loosen the gear in the Bosch knock off a couple of teeth and maybe even take the polisher to the manifold. Also, for a tune-up, what does that consist of? I am a full-sized engine newbie and trying to make sense with my current RC engine knowledge, where a tuneup would be a new piston and sleeve; I believe that a tune-up would be new plugs, wires, and distrobutor cap..is this correct?
 
alkaline747trio said:
I believe that a tune-up would be new plugs, wires, and distrobutor cap..is this correct?
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Sounds good to me. A valve adjustment might also be called for, and a compression test might be interesting. I'd go with DD113's advice and not mess with the cam. FWIW, of all the engines I've had in my rigs, including Toyota's 2F, 3.0 V6, 22RE and 3B, the 3FE is my favorite to date. If only it weren't such a petro pig!
 
I tuned mine up. plugs, blah, blah.

I also replaced all the vacuum hoses and most rubber components under the hood.
 
alkaline747trio said:
Just curious, would a port and polish yeild any better preformance? I am also still curious about the affects and where to get a mild cam (for the 2F I know, but it was said it works on my 3F).
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With the 3fe, the main power problems you have is the reverse flow head and the crankshaft. It only has 4 mains, not letting it support all that much power. Polishing and porting the heads wont gain much power really, the ports are already a good size. For the time it would take you to do all of the work you would gain about as much power as changing the muffler. The biggest real increase in power we have seen from the 3fe is raising the compression with high performance pistons. The downside to this is mandatory use of premium fuel. I would also not reccomend changing the cam in the 3fe. Although other cams will fit it, the engine wasnt really designed to use one. When Toyota changed over to fuel injection, everything became computer controlled. I dont think the computer is really able to map out the new changes. Probably the biggest difference you will see with a different cam is a loss in fuel mileage. :doh:
 
Steve-O said:
With the 3fe, the main power problems you have is the reverse flow head and the crankshaft. It only has 4 mains, not letting it support all that much power.
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A little off topic (2F vs 3FE) but something that I've always been interested in but that no one (at least that I've seen) has been able to give an informed answer to is why the 2F is consider to have a "stronger" bottom end than the 3FE? They are both 2 bolt 4 main bearing assemblies but I frequently hear that the 3FE is "weaker" in the bottom end and that the 2F is more suited for force induction than the 3FE. I don't consider either of them to have very substantial bottom ends but as far as I know I'd consider them pretty equal. Anyone have a solid reason for this claim?


Also - anyone want to comment on bumping up the 3FE's compression and the results on emission tests? Steve, will a 3FE with Man-a-Fre's high compression pistons pass a CA sniff test?
 
Moby: They are basically the same thing, I dont think either is neccesarily weaker than the other. The main difference between the two is the stroke length. The 3fe has a shorter stroke to rev faster. Personally I dont think either engine is suitable for forced induction, but I know it has been done.

No, the high compression pistons will not pass CA emissions. I could elaborate, but.............no.
 
There are some differences in how the thrust bearing rides. I have never really seen any 2F with major crank issues except for bearings and maybe some slight warpage. The 3FE seems to suffer from the crank warping quite often and tears the bottom end all up. I have also seen a warped 3FE block! IIRC there are 3 different 3FE cranks but not sure on different blocks.

The 3FE reves higher and has a different power band than the 2F. I have heard great stuff about using the 3FE head with a 2F block for more displacement.

If you really want some power overbore it, shave the head, use the chevy valves, do a poor mans porting and polishing job, enlarge the TB, get the biggest air intake possible, a Jacobs ignition, custom large exhaust and balance the injectors. I love all my 3FEs but if I were to go to that much trouble I would drop in a V8.
 
I will soon be california pre-testing my domed piston equipt 3FE and I will post the results. Along with a couple of dyno pulls to really depress myself.
 
Aseif007 said:
I will soon be california pre-testing my domed piston equipt 3FE and I will post the results. Along with a couple of dyno pulls to really depress myself.
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I will soon be GrayRock ORV pre-testing my aussie lockered w/ 35's... 3FE.
I don't worry about dyno pulls, but rather dyno crawls...

My next 3FE performance upgrade will have nothing to do with the engine, but rather 4.88's
 
dd113 said:
There are some differences in how the thrust bearing rides. I have never really seen any 2F with major crank issues except for bearings and maybe some slight warpage. The 3FE seems to suffer from the crank warping quite often and tears the bottom end all up. I have also seen a warped 3FE block! IIRC there are 3 different 3FE cranks but not sure on different blocks.
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Could you elaborate on the thrust bearing issue? Do you think the crank issues are related to this difference, the higher rpms, the crank itself or all three?

Assuming I rebuild my 3FE again my thinking around the bottom end of these engines has been to 1. Have everything (crank, rods, pistons...) balanced really, really, really well. 2. Lighten the reciprocating weight to redue stress on the crank. I'm definitly looking at lighter weight forged pistons (JE - $900-1000 for a set of six custom flat tops). I've also considered custom rods for the same purpose but the tech folks at Oliver convinced me that I don't want to go too far down the lightening path for the basic design and intended use of these engines. 3. Debur, detail, shot peen and stress relieve the crank itself.

However if there's a design issue (other than a 4 main bearings with 2 bolt caps :) ) somewhere else in the bottom end I'd like to investigate other potential fixes/changes as well.
 
ElJefe said:
2) Richen up the mixture a little... the system on the 3FE is a bosch knock-off and will respond to tinkering with the AFM just like the early BMW's that used a similar system. Open the AFM and turn the large gear a couple of teeth to LOOSEN the spring. This will have 2 effects. Smoother idle and more top end power... both open loop running conditions. Part throttle running will be adjusted using O2 sensors.



4) Timing. Advance the anemic base timing that the 3FE's use. Toyota tuned these engines to run just fine on that crap they call gas in south america/india/west africa.



Good luck...
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Going with these 2 points.
How do you open up the AFM?
What is the normal timing for this engine? what is a good stating point for advancing the timing?

Thanks
Kent
 
So getting the head shaved .03" is the most you guys would recommend? Also, what's the biggest valves I can get in there?

Thanks!

-Jared
 
I put on a new FPR, Plugs & wires, knocked the Cats out and I advanced the timing in my 3f-e. Its not super fast, but it is a new animal. I bought it with 80,000 mi and it has 150,000 now and it runs twice as good as it ever has. I even maxxed out my speedo on a flat road when I used to struggle to hit 75. I agree that its not worth the money to try to do much to this motor - $$$ worth the small reward and decrease in reliability. I might run pipes thru the cats and put on a custom 2.5 or 2.75 inch exhaust though with a low resonating flowmaster muffler.
 
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