Secondary (house) battery location...

[thelanranger]

So, as I've been digging around in this car there's a decent amount of nooks and crannies. I was curious if anyone has ever tried to cram a house battery (something like a lifepo4 Group 22nf or something) into some place like the rear wheel well? The passenger side has a crap load of space once the factory "sub" is removed and it would be nice to not give up the cargo area for some monstrosity of an electrical charging station.
I have a little box that's about the size of one of those batteries (1/2" slimmer) and it tucks in there pretty well. Has anyone done anything creative to built that out and maybe 'flex' the factory plastic side out a bit or something to get the room or any kind of fun solutions I should see before I invent up something of my own?
Thanks!

 

[OffRoadScott]

So, as I've been digging around in this car there's a decent amount of nooks and crannies. I was curious if anyone has ever tried to cram a house battery (something like a lifepo4 Group 22nf or something) into some place like the rear wheel well? The passenger side has a crap load of space once the factory "sub" is removed and it would be nice to not give up the cargo area for some monstrosity of an electrical charging station.
I have a little box that's about the size of one of those batteries (1/2" slimmer) and it tucks in there pretty well. Has anyone done anything creative to built that out and maybe 'flex' the factory plastic side out a bit or something to get the room or any kind of fun solutions I should see before I invent up something of my own?
Thanks!

There are a lot of options for a dual battery setup in a LC. Not knowing the year of your 80 you could add a battery tray in the factory location either Driver/Passenger. You could also mount in the rear cargo area behind/in front of a drawer setup.

Before you get ahead of yourself and build something decide if you really want a lithium battery. Yes they are great as you can discharge it a lot more than a AGM/Flooded battery but the alternator in the 80 can only put out so much as far as charging. Yes there are options out there to run a upgraded alternator from newer Toyota rigs. You can also augment your charging with solar too. If you go that route I would recommend a DCDC charger from Redarc for a few reasons. You can set it up for mixed chemistry batteries, as well as charging from solar when not running.

My current setup is 2 Optima 31T batteries in the stock location. They are connected via a Blue Sea ML-ACR with 1 gauge wire. I have thought about lithium in my rig but I would have to re-wire the whole setup and add the a Red Arc DCDC charger as the Blue Sea ML-ACR can not charge mixed chemistry when it comes to batteries. With my current setup I can run the wire up the passenger side to the rear 1/4 panel to where my AUX power is setup along with a few Blue Sea fuse panels setup for constant and switched power.

The picture of my Blue Sea ML-ACR is an older one, that breaker has since moved to the cruise control cover for easier access.

 

[OffRoadScott]

Also you can in this picture I have added grounds or augmented the factory grounds with 1 gauge wire as well. You can see the new placement of the circuit breaker on the cruise control cover.

 

[thelanranger]

See...initially I was interested in a solar panel for trickle charge because I tend to not drive the vehicle a lot and would like to not have the whole "oh, the battery is dead, guess I have to do work...take the other car" syndrome set in and a panel is relatively inexpensive. Once I started down the whole second battery tray/washer relocate/overflow relocate nonsense I was deterred by the entire endeavor.
In the process of replacing stereo I was going to run power to the rear so I figured I would run oversize wire and a break out then I could add accessory ports. This brought me back to the solar. I talked to LiTime and got a DC/DC charger and was informed that I can add this pretty easily (entire system is only 50 amps) and then still have the ability to add a house battery later on. Once I started digging around to replace the sub in the back the massive space got me thinking.

My needs for accessories are minor (especially if it is solar backed) and it just seems as though it would be relatively easy to cram a U1 or Group 22NF battery into that little cubby hole with the controller. I like the ideal of this for a multitude of reasons. Mostly, it's inside the vehicle vs under hood but also because the entire house system itself can be in the rear off of relatively short lengths of wire and the only interconnect to the starter battery would be through the DC/DC charger which would limit things to 50amps (realistically it's more like 20a) and allow for that trickle charge (and perhaps the occasional recharge).
In the end it would be nice to be able to run a little mini fridge or an inverter or charge some phones, maybe a light at random without having to worry about the vehicle not starting. The location wouldn't cost cargo room or $500 in parts from Slee either! I'd rather spend that on beer (or more useful parts).

 

[ZackR]

I'd head over here and look around for ideas before committing and buying equipment. A lot has changed in the last few years with batteries, solar, etc.

Vehicle Mounted Systems - https://diysolarforum.com/forums/vehicle-mounted-systems.7/

If it were me I'd definitely go with a lithium battery for the house and keep it and everything that goes with it outside of the engine bay, other than the fused connection to the DC/DC charger.

 

[Rdonahe]

I just finished adding a 100ah lithium house battery and DC to DC charger into my setup. I already had the battery & charger from a past vehicle so they are both a little dated and on the large side. My setup dedicates the passenger side behind the front seats to fridge, battery/charger & camping stuff so I'm no help as far as mounting in the passenger rear quarter panel though I definitely thought about it. I have some electrical already stuffed back in there. The main issue I would see there is securing the battery. If you run trails even a small battery if it got loose in there could do some real sheet metal damage.

 

[thelanranger]

That was really my only concern is that it's basically all sheet metal inside. The thing is if you look at the Litime 100ah Xtra Mini which is pretty new, it's a Group 22nf battery. They're 5.67" in width (then basically 9x9). I feel like it would be pretty practical to epoxy a rail directly to the sheet metal inside there that was at the same height as the floor and give you a flat mounting surface then there's really no place for it to go. That battery is NEARLY the exact size of the space under the factory sub.
The only issue is that it would not give you enough clearance to put the factory plastic back w/o it bulging out. Since it seems like no one has really utilized this spot for a battery I might just buy one and see about fabbing something up because it just seems like way too perfect of a location to be able to put everything in there and not have to use up any of the cargo area for electrical.
100ah of lithium paired with a DC-DC charger and solar would be plenty for a lot of the people out there I feel like. That would run a little fridge indefinitely with enough overhead to jump the car or run a compressor or something if you need it. Plenty for us "suburbanites" =P.

 

[Rdonahe]

That was really my only concern is that it's basically all sheet metal inside. The thing is if you look at the Litime 100ah Xtra Mini which is pretty new, it's a Group 22nf battery. They're 5.67" in width (then basically 9x9). I feel like it would be pretty practical to epoxy a rail directly to the sheet metal inside there that was at the same height as the floor and give you a flat mounting surface then there's really no place for it to go. That battery is NEARLY the exact size of the space under the factory sub.
The only issue is that it would not give you enough clearance to put the factory plastic back w/o it bulging out. Since it seems like no one has really utilized this spot for a battery I might just buy one and see about fabbing something up because it just seems like way too perfect of a location to be able to put everything in there and not have to use up any of the cargo area for electrical.
100ah of lithium paired with a DC-DC charger and solar would be plenty for a lot of the people out there I feel like. That would run a little fridge indefinitely with enough overhead to jump the car or run a compressor or something if you need it. Plenty for us "suburbanites" =P.

Would be super cool to fit a 100ah in there securely. Keep us posted.

On capacity, I almost never camp anywhere more than 1 night without driving my truck. I agree that 100ah with a DC to DC charger, even without solar, is enough juice for my needs. I'm in process of switching over to a 100% electric camp kitchen setup.

 

[thelanranger]

I'll take pics when I get to it. I figure that worst case I have to cut some things but I agree, if I can put a $80 solar panel on the roof rack and leave a fridge running in the cargo area all the time then that would be sweeeeeeet.

It seems like those other "slim" batteries most assuredly fit there but they're nosebleed expensive. I'd like to try it with one of the Group 22nf ones because amazon has some off brand 100ah ones for ~$149. I guess if it doesn't work out then I'm not out $800 on a battery I can't really use without another $500 in accessories that way.

 

[Rdonahe]

I'll take pics when I get to it. I figure that worst case I have to cut some things but I agree, if I can put a $80 solar panel on the roof rack and leave a fridge running in the cargo area all the time then that would be sweeeeeeet.

It seems like those other "slim" batteries most assuredly fit there but they're nosebleed expensive. I'd like to try it with one of the Group 22nf ones because amazon has some off brand 100ah ones for ~$149. I guess if it doesn't work out then I'm not out $800 on a battery I can't really use without another $500 in accessories that way.

Not sure if it would fit (both fit your budget and fit the battery you want) but the DeltaVS QPM mount might give you a base to start. I haven't seriously looked at them so don't know what width you end up with once they are installed in there.

 

[ZackR]

I've never used one of these but it looks pretty convenient for in vehicle mounting.

LiTime 12V 100Ah Slim LiFePO4 Lithium Metal Case Deep Cycle Battery

 

[thelanranger]

Yea, that's a little out of budget. That kind of thing is rather what I was trying to avoid with the whole secondary battery tray nonsense. These kinds of trays and things are nice and all but they cost more than the stuff you bolt to them!
I'm realizing why half of these vehicles are selling for the prices they sell for is because people have more in accessories than they do in the vehicle. =P

 

[thelanranger]

I've never used one of these but it looks pretty convenient for in vehicle mounting.

LiTime 12V 100Ah Slim LiFePO4 Lithium Metal Case Deep Cycle Battery

I looked at these and while they seem nice the 20" is the problem.
It seems like pretty much all these premade batteries are just built around standard prismatic cell sizes in various layouts (this one being 2x11 laid flat) but I don't get why it's $500 for a 100ah battery? It's clearly still a 4 cell battery with a single bms. You can get 100ah if lifepo4 for $99 if you use "normal" sizing. I'm willing to spend $50 more for something a bit more compact or oddly shaped but committing to 5-7x the price for not just the shape but the potential replacement as well is untennable.

 

[efjayatee]

See...initially I was interested in a solar panel for trickle charge because I tend to not drive the vehicle a lot and would like to not have the whole "oh, the battery is dead, guess I have to do work...take the other car" syndrome set in and a panel is relatively inexpensive. Once I started down the whole second battery tray/washer relocate/overflow relocate nonsense I was deterred by the entire endeavor.
In the process of replacing stereo I was going to run power to the rear so I figured I would run oversize wire and a break out then I could add accessory ports. This brought me back to the solar. I talked to LiTime and got a DC/DC charger and was informed that I can add this pretty easily (entire system is only 50 amps) and then still have the ability to add a house battery later on. Once I started digging around to replace the sub in the back the massive space got me thinking.

My needs for accessories are minor (especially if it is solar backed) and it just seems as though it would be relatively easy to cram a U1 or Group 22NF battery into that little cubby hole with the controller. I like the ideal of this for a multitude of reasons. Mostly, it's inside the vehicle vs under hood but also because the entire house system itself can be in the rear off of relatively short lengths of wire and the only interconnect to the starter battery would be through the DC/DC charger which would limit things to 50amps (realistically it's more like 20a) and allow for that trickle charge (and perhaps the occasional recharge).
In the end it would be nice to be able to run a little mini fridge or an inverter or charge some phones, maybe a light at random without having to worry about the vehicle not starting. The location wouldn't cost cargo room or $500 in parts from Slee either! I'd rather spend that on beer (or more useful parts).

Skip all this and get a power station instead with an alternator charger like from Anker. I'd go with a small solar powered trickle tender to keep your battery topped off unless it's winter and no sun.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08K2T4RPH?tag=ihco-20

 

[thelanranger]

Skip all this and get a power station instead with an alternator charger like from Anker. I'd go with a small solar powered trickle tender to keep your battery topped off unless it's winter and no sun.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08K2T4RPH?tag=ihco-20

I looked into all this and on top of it being a giant mess a 100ah power station with reverse charge and MPPT is like $1,000. You can build that into your car for $250 and it looks like it came from the factory. I'm extremely averse to bags of junk in the cargo space of the vehicle. It should do what I want it to do and THEN I can put bags of junk in it.

 

[thelanranger]

Figured I'd update this post since I'm goofing off a bit today. I ran all the wiring to the rear sub area for outlets and battery and got a 100ah chinesium lifepo4 battery (which arrived DOA) so I carried on and used it to size everything. Replacement is a LiTime that will match the DC-DC charger that I'm using.
With the factory sub removed (which was blown and disintegrating anyway) you can see the massive area that's free to use here. I got a little underseat sub to put in it's place but the area is so huge that I couldn't pass up the opportunity to cram more stuff in there!

First picture you can see I epoxied some blocks to the side of the panel as a rest then cut a piece of wood slightly larger than the battery itself (this is a Group 22NF battery, LiTime Xtra-Mini 100ah). I cut a couple of notches in the board to clear the ramped up edges of the flange then it rests on the metal flange and the wood blocks. Nothing is yet secured but I plan to just run a couple of screws into the blocks that are epoxied to the wall of the truck this and simply being entirely wedged in there will prevent anything from moving.
With the battery in place you can see that the entire face will only protrudge about half an inch past the stock location. All this effectively does is prevent you from snapping the two bottom "christmas trees" into place at the bottom but the plastic is so huge that it has absolutely no trouble flexing to accommodate and all three other edges can be fastened as normal. My thought is that you could even put a piece of sheet metal vertically on the edge of the plywood base (or someone with better metal shop skills that I could make up this whole battery box as an item) and it would just move those 2 snap holes forward half an inch.
Fastening the battery down will be as simple as a small ratchet strap.
And before someone comments about this coming loose, even if everything broke loose there's absolutely nowhere for the battery to go. If you just take the bare battery and plunk it there the bottom slides out about an additional half inch and it just sits there wedged in that little crevice with no place to bounce around to. Worst case scenario, if everything broke loose, you'd just have the battery making noise back there until you refasten everything back down.

Once the new battery is here and everything is wired up I'll post some more pictures but there should be enough room for the battery, the DC-DC charger, and a small all in one sub. Would love to hear if anyone has any ideas for changes or if some sheet metal nerd wants to make me a nicer battery bracket. =P

 

[thelanranger]

One blown fuse and 12 trips to the store for misc hardware and I'm done for the day. Still room for the stock fender cover. The sub box should (more or less) be centered up with the cubby hatch and I should be able to put the requisite outlets in the hole for the ashtray so nothing is too horribly out of place. Most importantly you're not giving up cargo room and everything can be returned to stock if desired.
Still waiting on a replacement fuse to fully hook everything up but the sub works and the battery is its own system isolated via the DC-DC charger. Will be able to add a small solar panel later to keep that battery topped up and have relatively easy access to the 'reverse' button if I need to back charge the car in the event of a dead battery.
Would have liked a little bit more room for the 'house' battery hook ups but if you completely sacrifice a sub or put that on the opposing side then you should have plenty of room for another break out for house power.

P.S. LiTime battery is vastly superior to generic. The bluetooth BMS is amazing. There's essentially no need for a volt meter or on off switch (though this is likely a good safety feature) as you can monitor all of it in the app and even turn the terminals on and off from your phone! Paired with a small panel an xtra-mini should be plenty for most regular folks out there. Hopefully they can shave another half inch off the next model then everything will fit perfectly.

 

[ZackR]

Looks like its coming along

For the wiring I'd recommend going through and checking for any spots where cables could rub together and cause a short. Spots like these where vibration can rub through the insulation over time. This is especially important where its not fused close to the battery.