RCV 300M Rear Axle Cone Washer Issue
- Thread starter Gerrha
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Going out on a limb here but from memory I think you see a small bit of the smooth stud even on the front drive flange hardware before you put the washer on.
I would think that it’s designed that way on purpose so that the cone washer doesn’t get pushed in to far when guys go all gorilla on those nuts and don’t use a torque wrench.
I would pull a nut off of one of the ones in the front and see how much is exposed.
I would think that it’s designed that way on purpose so that the cone washer doesn’t get pushed in to far when guys go all gorilla on those nuts and don’t use a torque wrench.
I would pull a nut off of one of the ones in the front and see how much is exposed.
- Thread starter
- #43
In my shop, my recently completed front axle is sitting about 10' away from the rear. It has been there beaming at me since I saw what was happening on the rear. I am afraid to go in the shop now.
Super easy check
I mean I have seen guys skip the paper washer 
- Thread starter
- #47
Yes, it does. In some of the photos I see a larger nut being used that possibly has a sort of counter-bore or relief on the backside that would overcome this short unthreaded section. But the OEM nuts I received recently are just a standard black nut with flat surfaces. Once it hits that shoulder on the stud, it does not go further.
I would machine the counterbore in the hubs deeper, but I'm a machinist.
I'd say you'd have a good chance of success with a decent, slow rpm drill press that has a quill stop or that you can rig the quill travel to stop at your target depth.
I wouldn't attempt it with a hand drill.
If you brought these to me I'd set them in a cnc mill, sweep in the dowel pins for alignment and pick up on center, draw it up in CAM and helical bore the threads out and chamfer the start of the threads below the bore. I'd have to run the first one a few times to sneak up on the proper depth.
Probably an hour to do both hubs.
You might look for a good local machine shop and ask how much they'd charge to fix these for you.
I'd say you'd have a good chance of success with a decent, slow rpm drill press that has a quill stop or that you can rig the quill travel to stop at your target depth.
I wouldn't attempt it with a hand drill.
If you brought these to me I'd set them in a cnc mill, sweep in the dowel pins for alignment and pick up on center, draw it up in CAM and helical bore the threads out and chamfer the start of the threads below the bore. I'd have to run the first one a few times to sneak up on the proper depth.
Probably an hour to do both hubs.
You might look for a good local machine shop and ask how much they'd charge to fix these for you.
Few thoughts
1) Why did you replace both hubs ?
2) Do you still have the old hub to compare the new ones too ?
3) Are you planning on running them without dowel pins ?
4) I’m with @PIP with not drilling by hand or even with a drill press
4) Get them to a machine shop and then they can bore them for the dowel pins at the same time.
Or if they don’t match the old ones I would try to return them and get the ones @cruiseroutfit sells with the holes for the dowel pins already drilled.
@cruiseroutfit Kurt maybe you can shed some light on this.
It was mentioned earlier in this thread that the RCVs require a bigger stud and cone washer .
Do you have any experience with this ?
I have been running my RCV rear 300ms for years with stock size hub studs & cone washers without issue.
For the beginning I thought that @Gerrha may have the wrong hub studs.
I’m sure you sell those studs, if you could share the measurements of the ones you sell and if there different ( reference post #10 ) then he could just buy a set from you and be on his way
Thanks for your help/time.
1) Why did you replace both hubs ?
2) Do you still have the old hub to compare the new ones too ?
3) Are you planning on running them without dowel pins ?
4) I’m with @PIP with not drilling by hand or even with a drill press
4) Get them to a machine shop and then they can bore them for the dowel pins at the same time.
Or if they don’t match the old ones I would try to return them and get the ones @cruiseroutfit sells with the holes for the dowel pins already drilled.
@cruiseroutfit Kurt maybe you can shed some light on this.
It was mentioned earlier in this thread that the RCVs require a bigger stud and cone washer .
Do you have any experience with this ?
I have been running my RCV rear 300ms for years with stock size hub studs & cone washers without issue.
For the beginning I thought that @Gerrha may have the wrong hub studs.
I’m sure you sell those studs, if you could share the measurements of the ones you sell and if there different ( reference post #10 ) then he could just buy a set from you and be on his way
Thanks for your help/time.
- Thread starter
- #50
1. After buying my 97, I realized it had lived most of its life in the NE where they salt roads and almost everything underneath was in bad shape. So, I went on a buying spree and purchased almost everything still available for all those parts including the hubs. Everything I purchased is OEM. When it came time to work on the axles, I more or less started over from scratch with the new parts and did not even consider using the original hubs. The hubs are fine, I am sure. It is the current OEM studs that create the issue. The lower photo in NeverFinis's #31 post pretty much hammers that home.Few thoughts
1) Why did you replace both hubs ?
2) Do you still have the old hub to compare the new ones too ?
3) Are you planning on running them without dowel pins ?
4) I’m with @PIP with not drilling by hand or even with a drill press
4) Get them to a machine shop and then they can bore them for the dowel pins at the same time.
Or if they don’t match the old ones I would try to return them and get the ones @cruiseroutfit sells with the holes for the dowel pins already drilled.
@cruiseroutfit Kurt maybe you can shed some light on this.
It was mentioned earlier in this thread that the RCVs require a bigger stud and cone washer .
Do you have any experience with this ?
I have been running my RCV rear 300ms for years with stock size hub studs & cone washers without issue.
For the beginning I thought that @Gerrha may have the wrong hub studs.
I’m sure you sell those studs, if you could share the measurements of the ones you sell and if there different ( reference post #10 ) then he could just buy a set from you and be on his way
Thanks for your help/time.
2. Sadly no. A scrap metal guy convinced me to get rid of most of the old, rusted parts in my junk pile.
3. The additional dowel pins provided by RCV have been a bit of a thorn in my side. My current thought is to leave them out. I will not be rock crawling etc and the tires will not be larger than 34". I read a previous lengthy post regarding them, and I admit to being unsure. I guess you run them and consider them necessary?
4. I agree with this. If they need to be counter-bored a good shop needs to do it. However, last night a potential other option came to me. McMaster-Carr sells two styles of 8-mm x 1.25-mm high-profile nuts. The one I like is a flange nut made out of Class 10 steel and it is 12-mm tall. These nuts could be counter-bored 3- to 4-mm deep, which should solve the issue, and still provide more thread than the current OEM nuts. Any thoughts on this option?
5. I did not know Cruiser Outfitters sold hubs pre-drilled for the dowels. Dang, I wish I had known about this before. I would buy them now except the thought of having to tear this thing down again and replace the hubs is grim.
Don't forget. We are talking about the rear hubs, and these same studs are used in the front. I still have not checked the situation in my front hubs.
- Thread starter
- #51
As an update: I checked the situation in my front hubs. It is not quite as bad as the rear. Here is what I found for one stud only.
When torqued to 26 ft-lbs the cone sits proud from the flange by 0.090". The front washer thickness is also 0.090". The threads end on the stud at 0.209" away from the flange. This final measurement is a little guesswork trying to pinpoint where the threads really do end. This means there is 0.029" of no thread protruding beyond the washer at full torque. Is this 0.029" enough to cause a problem with the nut, I am not able to say. By the way, the OEM version of nut I recently received for part number 90170-08204, which is the same as for the rear nut, is 0.255" thick.
When torqued to 26 ft-lbs the cone sits proud from the flange by 0.090". The front washer thickness is also 0.090". The threads end on the stud at 0.209" away from the flange. This final measurement is a little guesswork trying to pinpoint where the threads really do end. This means there is 0.029" of no thread protruding beyond the washer at full torque. Is this 0.029" enough to cause a problem with the nut, I am not able to say. By the way, the OEM version of nut I recently received for part number 90170-08204, which is the same as for the rear nut, is 0.255" thick.
- Thread starter
- #52
Another observation. In Post #19, SNLC mentioned that the cone depth in the RCV flange is greater than the cone depth in the OEM rear flange. Although I cannot present hard numbers for this, I did observe the following. Today when I played around with the front hub, every time I backed off the nuts, which had previously been torqued to 26 ft-lbs, the cone washers would pop out on their own without any help from me. Yesterday when I was doing the same thing on the rear with the RCV flange, the cone washers were extremely difficult to remove to the point of me cussing at them. Both the front and rear assemblies are brand new, so what else could cause this other than the cones being deeper on the RCV flange.
You have your old Axles right ?
I would take one of the RCV flanges right next to one of your old axles and drop a cone in them checking to see how much cone is left exposed.
Again I wish I was home ( not I’m have a great time!) as I have a spare RCV flange and my OEM original axles and a pair of Nitro axles as well.
I also keep full sets of extra studs and cone washer on hand.
Would be super easy to check this sh*t out.
I always half to fight to get the cones out front and back ! Think brass hammer and persuasion.
I have learned to leave the nut on so the cones washers don’t go shooting across the shop
I like the longer ARP studs or others with the hex head or Torx on top for anything with cones. Unscrew the stud instead of fighting the cones.
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Just for reference. I don’t have any larger cone washers in stock and I don’t recall exactly what I did last time we installed some.
We will be installing these late this week.
Cheers
We will be installing these late this week.
Cheers
What are we looking at LAN ? Hard to tell in the picture.
The Cone holes do look a bit bigger. It also looks like the flange it a bit thinner?
Are the 70 series cones just bigger or are the studs bigger also.
Don’t understand RCV changing everything
- Joined
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What are we looking at LAN ? Hard to tell in the picture.
The Cone holes do look a bit bigger. It also looks like the flange it a bit thinner?
Are the 70 series cones just bigger or are the studs bigger also.
Don’t understand RCV changing everything
I am sure it is a typo my man but my name is Ian (i a n) not Lan.
Yes the holes are bigger on the RCV. Yes 105/70-series uses larger cone washers and studs. No the RCV is not thinner, it’s the same thickness as stock.
Last one I did I either used 105/70 cone washers or I may have used Trail Gear cone washers. I don’t recall exactly.
Cheers
Not a typo I’m an idiot, thanks of correcting me.I am sure it is a typo my man but my name is Ian (i a n) not Lan.
Yes the holes are bigger on the RCV. Yes 105/70-series uses larger cone washers and studs. No the RCV is not thinner, it’s the same thickness as stock.
Last one I did I either used 105/70 cone washers or I may have used Trail Gear cone washers. I don’t recall exactly.
Cheers
Sorry for all the questions! So you’re dill & taping the hubs for bigger studs ?
It wouldn’t be a big deal if the studs were the same diameter and you just needed the 70/105 cones.
I am confirming that they are drilled/tapered bigger, approximately 0.020" bigger in diameter and major taper diameter. Both my five year old and new RCV flanges are this way.
And re-iterating that with these dimensions they have and still work with the factory hardware. These are designed to work with mini-truck front axle, which use similar hardware.
The problem is really pointing to why the shoulder of the studs are sitting so proud of the hub. I've checked three rear, and one front axle and all the shoulders on the studs sit approximately 0.150" deep into threads of the hub.
And re-iterating that with these dimensions they have and still work with the factory hardware. These are designed to work with mini-truck front axle, which use similar hardware.
The problem is really pointing to why the shoulder of the studs are sitting so proud of the hub. I've checked three rear, and one front axle and all the shoulders on the studs sit approximately 0.150" deep into threads of the hub.
- Thread starter
- #60
If your studs were the original version, yours would not be proud - and would be ok. As the lower photo in NeverFinis's #31 post shows, the studs now supplied by Toyota for the rear have been changed to the studs used in the front, which are longer. He did not mention when that change occurred.