Radiator failure due to frame flexing?

[86aggie]

In the past couple of years, I have gone thru 4 aluminum radiators and in the past two months had my CSF radiator taken out twice for repair/welding(CSF/Rock Auto wouldn't warranty it because it is the model for a 60, not a 62). My mechanic said after this last time, he is wondering if the frame is flexing and causing these failures. I replaced all the rubber and hardware mounting components when the CSF was first installed, earlier this year.

How can I check on the frame flexing, or determine if there is another possible cause for these repeated failures?

 

[duncanrm]

Full aluminium radiators just suck. Ones with plastic crimped tanks are slightly better, but still suck.

Copper/Brass is the bomb.

 

[86aggie]

The CSF is all metal.

 

[duncanrm]

The CSF is all metal.

Brass/copper? Where did the failure occur?

 

[86aggie]

Not sure about which metals they used. It is failing top and bottom joints where the tank and fins/coils meet

 

[BurntToast]

Have you ruled out electrolysis?

https://www.rondavisradiators.com/tech.htm#electrolosis_testing

 

[cliffrdavis]

Agree - read on forums about this - two major reasons for repeated aluminum failures. Electrolysis and flexing. Since you have fixed it several times I would suggest going to a copper one - would solve either issue and save you a lot of time and repair issues. Also check on the threads and make sure you have the correct antifreeze - I checked directly from an antifreeze manufacturer and they said do not use red AF if you have an iron block and aluminum radiator. Lots of opinions on this but I got it from the company so I stuck with the standard AF from their recommendation.

 

[toy_tek]

I had a long discussion with Ron Davis when I was considering one. He rattled off a significant list of radiator failure reasons, and frame flex was definitely one of them. If anybody knows, it would be him I suppose.

 

[lcwizard]

you can always reinforce the core support

 

[dbleon]

Agree - read on forums about this - two major reasons for repeated aluminum failures. Electrolysis and flexing. Since you have fixed it several times I would suggest going to a copper one - would solve either issue and save you a lot of time and repair issues. Also check on the threads and make sure you have the correct antifreeze - I checked directly from an antifreeze manufacturer and they said do not use red AF if you have an iron block and aluminum radiator. Lots of opinions on this but I got it from the company so I stuck with the standard AF from their recommendation.

Isn’t the 2uz an iron block /aluminum radiator. 5vz also .. etc etc .. running red coolant

I personally run GO5 coolant .. LS iron block with all aluminum radiator going on 15 years

 

[cliffrdavis]

I had a long discussion with Ron Davis when I was considering one. He rattled off a significant list of radiator failure reasons, and frame flex was definitely one of them. If anybody knows, it would be him I suppose.

Yes - lots of opinions. I just did what I was told! Here is a great link from US radiators - but it doesn’t clarify this specific question - more of an educational on the types and evolution of AF.

Does Coolant Matter? - US Radiator

US Radiator Chemical Analysis- Does The Coolant Matter? If you own a GM ... Read More

usradiator.com

 

[86aggie]

The CSF radiator is 'OEM specified Copper-Brass Construction'. I have been using Toyota Red since before I replaced the OEM radiator with the aluminum version. I understood that electrolysis is a potential issue with aluminum radiators, not copper brass. Is that correct?

 

[lcwizard]

The CSF radiator is 'OEM specified Copper-Brass Construction'. I have been using Toyota Red since before I replaced the OEM radiator with the aluminum version. I understood that electrolysis is a potential issue with aluminum radiators, not copper brass. Is that correct?

In all the years of beating the piss out of 60s ( about 5 of them) I've never lost a radiator, aluminum or brass. I have had frame failures. Front shackle hangers
on all five. Front shock towers on two. Rear forward spring hangers on two. Cracks in the core supports where they met the outer frame rail on two....hence my current core support that ties in the forward hangers

 

[86aggie]

In all the years of beating the piss out of 60s ( about 5 of them) I've never lost a radiator, aluminum or brass. I have had frame failures. Front shackle hangers
on all five. Front shock towers on two. Rear forward spring hangers on two. Cracks in the core supports where they met the outer frame rail on two....hence my current core support that ties in the forward hangers

That makes this more interesting. I've had this 62 since it was new. 384k miles. Never off-road. I don't see that core support on your site. Is it available?

 

[klip]

Body mounts? Was it ever in a front end accident? Twisted core support? Maybe it’s being installed in a bind? Any gap at any of the mounting locations when it’s sitting on the mounts and resting against the core support without the bolts in it yet?

 

[lcwizard]

That makes this more interesting. I've had this 62 since it was new. 384k miles. Never off-road. I don't see that core support on your site. Is it available?

I doubt you'll see issues with a truck that never sees boulders. Every frame made will twist at least a little when you get to rough terrain. Early Jeeps were
among the worst. I did a lot of frame boxing on the CJ series in the 80s and 90s. You could lay their bare frame on the concrete and lift one corner a foot off the ground before any other corner began to lift. The rock crawlers in the AZ desert would have their roll cages would punch through the floor and frames would crack on nearly every hardcore trail. We would box them end to end. The trucks of the 70s would flex so bad you would get stuck in the cab with the doors jammed closed if you stalled twisted up

 

[lcwizard]

That makes this more interesting. I've had this 62 since it was new. 384k miles. Never off-road. I don't see that core support on your site. Is it available?

I'll do them on site for a build. I use a Saginaw box in the mix. The old Coupe DeVilles had the large bore saginaw. Same piston as the one ton
truck box. You can turn 37's on asphalt at 4psi with one finger at a standstill

 

[Lead Head]

Odds are all of those aluminum radiators are just bottom of the barrel junk out of China. Quality of aftermarket parts has gone down significantly. I suppose you could check for cracks in the frame and core support.

What kind of coolant are you using? I've heard that the old school green coolant works best for mixed metals, and you definitely have mixed metals if you've got your original iron engine, brass/copper heater cores and an aluminum radiator.

 

[86aggie]

The AL radiators were Mishimoto. I stopped returning them and went to the CSF, which is brass/copper. I use the Toyota 50/50 red. The radiator shop repaired the CSF this past week, and the mechanic ran the engine for 2 hours to see if any new leaks showed up.

 

[Lead Head]

The AL radiators were Mishimoto. I stopped returning them and went to the CSF, which is brass/copper. I use the Toyota 50/50 red. The radiator shop repaired the CSF this past week, and the mechanic ran the engine for 2 hours to see if any new leaks showed up.

When you are installing the radiator, does it just go right in, or are you forcing any of the brackets? Is the fan shroud straight?

Trying switching to Green coolant. Allegedly its better for copper rads, at the expense of needing to be changed out every couple of years.

Check to make sure body mount bolts are right and that nothing is cracked.

Are you offroading?