purchase advise

[allworknoplay]

I have decided to take a break from FJ60's and mess around with a mini truck. After hunting around for a relatively unmolested 1st gen 4x4 pickup (very few options to chose from in my area) to have as a project, I have found one that I am mostly content with. I drove it a couple weeks ago when I didn't actually have the money to buy it. So I didn't note a couple important details, but I was hoping for a little advice or insight on a couple things anyway.

It is a 1980 Toyota, with what I thought I noted to be a 20r, but it has a 5 speed trans. From what I have read i thought 79-80 pickups had a 4spd. Would have a 5 speed been an option prior to 81?

Also, when I drove it, it just about died on me when I shifted from first to second at around 3000 rpm. It was like it was way to low of an engine speed and bogged it down. The engine seems to run great, but it was almost as if there was no power/torque to push the truck along. When I continued to shift i went up to 3500 to 4k it was better but felt unnatural and still underpowered. Maybe the engine has low compression? I know the 20r and 22r aren't exactly considered to be overpowered, but the driveability seemed poor even compared to 1980's standards. I later drove an '86 2wd truck with the carbureted 22r and auto trans that seemed to have a lot more gusto than this 1980 4x4. Where do you think the problem lies?

This truck has a nice enough body and interior that I will probably still buy it even if a rebuild is necessary. But I was hoping that someone with better knowledge of these 4bangers could give me a little insight before I throw down some hard earned cash.

Thanks in advance,

Nick

I know, I know.....I will post pics if/when I snatch it up.

 

[Mudder]

What tires does it have and gears?

 

[allworknoplay]

It only has some BFG 30x9.50's on it, and I assume stock gears. It looks to be very unmolested or modified.

 

[allworknoplay]

After some thinking and reading i am getting the impression I may be over complicating my concerns. I don't think the truck has been driven much over the past few years. So a tune up and vacuum line rundown would probably make a world of difference....thus exposing my novice automotive diagnostic intuitiveness.

But if anyone does have any other concerns let me know. Oh, and I just happened to remember i took these with my phone when I looked at the truck two weeks ago. Not perfect....just the way I like 'em.

 

[Mudder]

Issues, leaf springs. For a mild lift to redo everything is $1500 sadly. OME, rust? How is the tank? Colour of oil? Has the carb ever been rebuild or has it been changed out for a different one?

 

[pappy]

Thoughts. The performance issues could be simply old fuel, or a clogged fuel filter. Mudder mentioned the gas tank, and if it looks OK externally, they are easy to clean internally. I've used kits from Eastwood. Like you said, a rundown on vacuum lines, carb rebuild, and fresh fuel would probably solve some of the issues.

Truck seems to have a tachometer dash, which would imply SR5, which as I recall had the 5 speed. As I recall this tranny was not one of Toyota's best efforts. Fortunately, virtually every transmission Toyota offered in these trucks up to 1995 will work. Shifter might come up in a funny spot, but they do bolt up and a W56 would be a great upgrade.

Yes, 1980 will have the 20R, but again, any 4 cylinder up to 1995 will bolt up (22R and 22RE). The 22RE would be more work, but very possible. But frankly, if you are going to swap engines, I would put in a 3RZ from a Tacoma (lots more work).

That truck looks very nice considering it's 35 years old. I would not pay a fortune for this truck, though. It's going to take lots of work to just baseline (tune-up, belts, hoses, rubber, fluids), plus what ever issues you find along the way (leaky front axle seals, brakes, clutch, etc.)

Before driving it away I would also do a compression test and see what might be lurking internally.

edit: According to Marlin's table the 5-speed didn't appear in the mini-trucks until 1981. You might have a transplant.

 

[Devils Paw 80]

Pretty good looking truck. Leaf springs look fine to me. I used to be more drawn to that older body with a SFA, but now I'm happy to have the next generation with an EFI engine.

 

[ntsqd]

Possible that it's an early 5 speed/late '80 production truck? Speculating, no idea.

If a "mud-ship" can be arranged I've a used W56 that you can have. It will need an internal cleaning as it's been sitting in the garage & shop w/o a t/c bolted on. It occasionally still dribbles a little Redline synth. lube. As I recall the main issue with transplanting a later 5 speed into an early truck is that all of the later trans' are longer by some unkwn but significant difference.

 

[FJ40_Nut]

Nice looking truck. Tune it up and go is what I say. It will take some time to find all the issues due to sitting and age, but you'll be happy in the long run. Take good care of it and it will be practically what it's worth down the line too.

 

[allworknoplay]

Thanks guys. I am going to pick it up in a couple hours. I am kind of at the point where I will just be satisfied if it makes its way home under it's own power. The more i look at the pictures, the more I know I just have to have it. I have had 3 FJ60's, two Tacoma's, three 4runners and a 2nd gen pickup through the years. Other than a couple clutches, general maintenance and quite a bit of emissions nonsense I really haven't needed to do anything major to any of them. I am am pretty good at muddling through problems despite my lack of experience so I guess I am kind of looking forward to some of the challenges this truck might pose.

Thanks to all for the guidance. NTSQD, I might take you up on the w56 if the seems to be some issues. That is the "desired" transmission behind the 22r's right?

 

[Toast]

How much are they asking for it?

 

[allworknoplay]

So....I bought the truck. This time I went over there with the discerning eye of a purchaser that actually had the money!
The funny thing is, what I expected to be a problem is not even a problem at all. The first time I drove it a few weeks ago jet was rainy and cool out, and I don't thinkci gave the truck an adequate amount of time to warm up. I noted this because yesterday when I looked at it, the temp was about 25 degrees warmer and I let it idle for about 10 minutes while I looked under the hood pulling on vacuum lines and hand manipulating the throttle while I listened to it. Then when I drove it, the truck pulled itself around without a complaint. I was very surprised and would have doubted it was the same truck if it wasn't so cosmetically characteristic.

I asked a lot more questions too. The owner said the "top end was rebuilt" around 10 to 15k miles ago at a local mechanic. He didn't have the receipt but gave me the shops name and number, claiming if I just mention his name the shop will remember the truck and should be able to fill me in on all the work done to it. Considering the source was an older gentleman with a very nice house, two newer Toyotas in his garage with a fishing boat parked in the third bay, I decided to believe him.

So I drove the truck the 100+,miles home and it ran great! I was doing 65 to 70 the whole way. Definitely no performance issues. Although that isn't to say the truck is perfect. A few things revealed themselves.

While turning sharply through a gas station parking lot on pavement it felt like the left front tire was grabbing/grinding like I left it in 4wd. I double checked that I had unlocked the hubs and they were unlunlocked. It happened a couple more times when I did it deliberately. I guess there's a knuckle rebuild in the near future.

Also, the idle wanted to stay at about 1500 rpm. I didn't try to fool with it on the way home by backing the idle speed screw out, because I want to examine all the vacuum lines and any other potential causes before I messed with it. After the 100 miles home it seemed to idle a little closer to 1800 rpm. I highly doubt any mechanic would intentially set the idle that high.

It needs a need exhaust, and she started weeping a fair amount of oil from the rear main seal and rear diff. I will weld up my own exhaust and start buying any and all new gaskets until I get the undercarriage dried up. But all in all, I am very happy with the performance. It seems to shift fine but had some clunk to it when starting out and shifting spiritedly. Maybe output spine wear or u joints. I don't think it needs a tyranny rebuild but I am not sure I would know where the line is that you make that call.

Thanks for all the attention for my new purchase. I will be obsessing over the mud forums for the next few months....as I have with all my old toyota purchases....to research this, that, and the other thing trying to bring a 35 year old truck up to unreasonable standards.

 

[Mudder]

So the turning, I have the same issue but not because of the knuckles. I hit a way and slid my axle back on one side and its not fully fixed as I'm pitting new leaf springs on in a few months but I'd check that. See of the pin is still there and if there's any rubbing at all on the leaf springs.

 

[pappy]

Congratulations! Let the journey begin.

 

[Mudder]

And we would like more pictures

 

[allworknoplay]

I have been trying to do a little research on this truck and from the plate in the engine compartment it is a 20r engine with an L43 tranny. But everything I read says that is a 4 speed. But there is also vague info that the SR5 had a 5 speed. I haven't had time to research other identifiers like bolt patterns or markings to help me confirm what is going on under there. But it does seem to be stock. I took the shell off. It's in decent shape but it isn't something I want to carry around everyday and I don't have space to store it. If there is anyone on here that is local that wants it I'll help you load it up just to get rid of it.

I have been trying to locate a matching rear hubcap and some door trim/moulding on the exterior of the door. No luck yet. Does anyone know where I could source those out?

 

[Mudder]

That may be an 81 since it was made 7/80. Can anyone verify this?

 

[Mudder]

It also has an 8" 4.38 2 pinon diffs

 

[KLF]

Changeover month is August (8).

 

[pappy]

You have a transplanted transmission. Have fun figuring that one out.