no oil pressure... fml
- Thread starter UWdave
- Start date
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- Thread starter
- #42
So pulling the motor has started. This is my first time ever pulling a motor so I'm relying heavily on the FSM and experienced friends.
FSM seems greatly lacking at times, but I'm feeling my way through it all. For the lower pan, FSM say "remove 4 bolts through trans." Only problem is that there are 6 bolts.
- Plenty of pictures taken.
- Bolts are going in labeled ziplock baggies
I'm pretty set on just buying a used motor and throwing it in. No rebuild. Want to get back wheeling ASAP. Prices are all over the board. Mainly finding wrecking yards that will give some warranty. Prices shipped from $1300 for 150k motor, $1600 for $96k motor, to guy on here selling rebuilt 40k motor for $2400+ship.
List of things to do:
- Find DIY on swap (any secrets)
- Remove all A/C stuff
- Buy motor
- Part to replace
---Upper & Lower Radiator hose
---Trans cooler hose
---heater hosed??
---PHH (taking the nice silicon kit off old motor)
---thermostat
FSM seems greatly lacking at times, but I'm feeling my way through it all. For the lower pan, FSM say "remove 4 bolts through trans." Only problem is that there are 6 bolts.
- Plenty of pictures taken.
- Bolts are going in labeled ziplock baggies
I'm pretty set on just buying a used motor and throwing it in. No rebuild. Want to get back wheeling ASAP. Prices are all over the board. Mainly finding wrecking yards that will give some warranty. Prices shipped from $1300 for 150k motor, $1600 for $96k motor, to guy on here selling rebuilt 40k motor for $2400+ship.
List of things to do:
- Find DIY on swap (any secrets)
- Remove all A/C stuff
- Buy motor
- Part to replace
---Upper & Lower Radiator hose
---Trans cooler hose
---heater hosed??
---PHH (taking the nice silicon kit off old motor)
---thermostat
Replace the head gasket before you install the "new" engine.
- Thread starter
- #44
I felt that one coming. I already read some about it. Doesn't sound like it would be too bad with the engine on a rotisserie.
- Thread starter
- #46
Anything else?
I'm trying to keep the list limited to what really needs to be done while the engine is out. Manage the spending right now.
What about oil pan seals? I took my pan off on the truck, but I would hate to put it back on while in the truck.
I'm trying to keep the list limited to what really needs to be done while the engine is out. Manage the spending right now.
What about oil pan seals? I took my pan off on the truck, but I would hate to put it back on while in the truck.
Resealing the pans is more time than money and involves a couple tubes of FIPG and an oil passage gasket. Since the rear arch is prone to leak it would be a good idea. I would also do both crank seals and an oil pump cover gasket.
- Thread starter
- #48
The list is growing.
General
- Radiator hoses
- Heater hoses
- trans cooler hoses
On motor
- head gasket
- oil pan seals
- oil passage gasket (the one to the oil pickup)
- oil pump gasket
- rear arch seal
- thermostat
- PHH
Couple of questions:
1) Any links to good engine pull info? Tips & tricks type stuff.
2) I'm going to be removing all the air conditioning. Is there any reason to not completely remove the pump? Like balancing the load on the crank pulley. (ac pull left, alternato/fan pulls up right)
General
- Radiator hoses
- Heater hoses
- trans cooler hoses
On motor
- head gasket
- oil pan seals
- oil passage gasket (the one to the oil pickup)
- oil pump gasket
- rear arch seal
- thermostat
- PHH
Couple of questions:
1) Any links to good engine pull info? Tips & tricks type stuff.
2) I'm going to be removing all the air conditioning. Is there any reason to not completely remove the pump? Like balancing the load on the crank pulley. (ac pull left, alternato/fan pulls up right)
Pulling the tranny with the engine? As Dan said, front and rear main seals, oil level sensor seal... I seperated the engine and tranny, mucho PITA and will go back in with tranny attached. We unbolted the AC and power steering so no R12 or PS fluid anywhere... but think to install we will have to remove the condenser and grill. I have one of those 2 ton load levelers for my cherry picker, absolutely a must have IMHO.
Planning on dissecting the previous engine to see if the bushing came apart or if the shaft snapped for the oil pump drive gear? I have talked to a machine shop and it seems that I will be getting a custom bearing fabbed for my '93 engine. DTaylor's source was clueless and wanted to do the entire rebuild $$$, and called another source but they forgot to write down the dimensions of the bearing they made. Due to wear of the idler shaft and the stresses of pressing it in I think the I/D will have to be custom reamed to size anyways.
Planning on dissecting the previous engine to see if the bushing came apart or if the shaft snapped for the oil pump drive gear? I have talked to a machine shop and it seems that I will be getting a custom bearing fabbed for my '93 engine. DTaylor's source was clueless and wanted to do the entire rebuild $$$, and called another source but they forgot to write down the dimensions of the bearing they made. Due to wear of the idler shaft and the stresses of pressing it in I think the I/D will have to be custom reamed to size anyways.
- Thread starter
- #50
I do plan on tearing apart the old motor in time. Definitely not my #1 priority right now. I'm committing to a "new" motor.
I likely won't be updating this thread any more until I do tear apart this motor.
I've created a new thread get myself through the swap.
https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/337326-motor-swap-advice.html#post5005167
As always, thanks for all the help guys.
I likely won't be updating this thread any more until I do tear apart this motor.
I've created a new thread get myself through the swap.
https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/337326-motor-swap-advice.html#post5005167
As always, thanks for all the help guys.
- Thread starter
- #51
Interesting discovery.
The "oil pump drive shaft gear" is snapped into 2 pieces. Imagine a top hat. The brim of the hat is the gear that interfaces the crank and powersteering gear. The top of the hat fits into the unobtainable block bushing. The oil pump shaft slides into the hat (splines interface). The brim and the top are no longer together.
After removing the crank pulley and oil pump cover, we noticed that the oil pump shaft could easily be spun while the gear wouldn't budge. It appears that the portion of the gear within the bushing rotates smooth and easy.
I need to take the head and timing chain cover off before I get anything interesting to show.
The "oil pump drive shaft gear" is snapped into 2 pieces. Imagine a top hat. The brim of the hat is the gear that interfaces the crank and powersteering gear. The top of the hat fits into the unobtainable block bushing. The oil pump shaft slides into the hat (splines interface). The brim and the top are no longer together.
After removing the crank pulley and oil pump cover, we noticed that the oil pump shaft could easily be spun while the gear wouldn't budge. It appears that the portion of the gear within the bushing rotates smooth and easy.
I need to take the head and timing chain cover off before I get anything interesting to show.
Damn, this is a failure i've never heard of. You must have been dead unlucky to be caught with this, or on the other hand the PO was very lucky. 
The 1FZ-FE is still a bulletproof engine, so please keep us informed and post up pics when you can.
The 1FZ-FE is still a bulletproof engine, so please keep us informed and post up pics when you can.
I've never heard of this type of component failure in a 1FZ-FE before. Sorry to say, but your motor may be a first with this. Definitely post up pictures of the failed gear when you can.
- Thread starter
- #54
So I can finally walk again and got to tear into the motor. (ankle surgery on Dec 31)
Today we pulled off the AC, Alternator, water pump and the timing chain cover. The motor is basically down to block, head, lower IM and header. We also got all of the motor unbolted from the transmission and it is ready to pull.
Some what like I expected based on what we found late December, the gear was broken.
How it is supposed to be:
Part that shouldn't be alone:
What we didn't realize at first is that the "unubtanium bushing", was on the the gear splines. It came of the gear with little fuss and slides right in and out of the block. Also, we notice damage to the rim on the inside of the timing chain cover that the oil pump gear rides against. (more and better pics tomorrow)
Failure theory A:
1) Junk in the oil got into the bushing and caused higher friction and/or seizing to the oil pump gear. (at operating temps)
2) Bushing spins, closing the oil passage, causing complete seizing of the bushing & gear.
3) Gear snaps
4) Gear damages timing chain cover
Failure theory B:
1) Damage occurs to timing chain cover (mystery)
2) Gear movement causes binding of gear/bushing/block
3) Bushing spins
4) Bushing/gear seize and Gear snaps
Either way, I'm pretty sure the block is toast. I'm assuming the block hole was reamed loose when the bushing spun. Additionally, turning over the crank, I'm getting quite a bit of piston blow-bye, so I assume the piston seals are gone. Otherwise, the head and crank bearings all look good. No scaring or galling.
Today we pulled off the AC, Alternator, water pump and the timing chain cover. The motor is basically down to block, head, lower IM and header. We also got all of the motor unbolted from the transmission and it is ready to pull.
Some what like I expected based on what we found late December, the gear was broken.
How it is supposed to be:
Part that shouldn't be alone:
What we didn't realize at first is that the "unubtanium bushing", was on the the gear splines. It came of the gear with little fuss and slides right in and out of the block. Also, we notice damage to the rim on the inside of the timing chain cover that the oil pump gear rides against. (more and better pics tomorrow)
Failure theory A:
1) Junk in the oil got into the bushing and caused higher friction and/or seizing to the oil pump gear. (at operating temps)
2) Bushing spins, closing the oil passage, causing complete seizing of the bushing & gear.
3) Gear snaps
4) Gear damages timing chain cover
Failure theory B:
1) Damage occurs to timing chain cover (mystery)
2) Gear movement causes binding of gear/bushing/block
3) Bushing spins
4) Bushing/gear seize and Gear snaps
Either way, I'm pretty sure the block is toast. I'm assuming the block hole was reamed loose when the bushing spun. Additionally, turning over the crank, I'm getting quite a bit of piston blow-bye, so I assume the piston seals are gone. Otherwise, the head and crank bearings all look good. No scaring or galling.
The block is indeed toast.
Cruiserdrew
On the way there
That blows, but thanks for the follow up.
What's the recovery plan?
What's the recovery plan?
- Thread starter
- #58
What can be done is not the question. The question is cost and
time. Getting this block back in service would require a few things and would likely end up costing a few hundred dollars. Then I would always worry about my aftermarket bushing.
- new gear
- new timing chain cover
- bushing machine work
- piston/sleeve work
There is a regional salvage yard that has a 156k motor with a 90 day warranty for $1400. Because this is a weekend only rig, I'd be comfortable doing nothing more than a headgasket and putting the engine into service. (new hoses, thermostat, PHH, etc are a given either way)
Also, there is also a local guy that is looking to buy an 80 to swap in a different motor. (torfab on mud, Feb 2010 ROTM) If the timing is right and the price is right, his motor may be an option.
- Thread starter
- #59
More carnage as promised:
Spline @ gear interface
Gear @ spline interface
Bushing Inside & Out
Notice the inside galling and the spot on the outside that shows where the block oil passage ended up.
Timing chain cover
Spline @ gear interface
Gear @ spline interface
Bushing Inside & Out
Notice the inside galling and the spot on the outside that shows where the block oil passage ended up.
Timing chain cover
Is it easy to remove the number 1 and number 2 oil pan without lifting the engine?