no crank after engine rebuild

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diesekte

Joined
Dec 10, 2018
Threads
1
Messages
9
Location
midwest
Hello all-

Yes I have searched and searched and searched. Can't find anything related to my specific situation.

Pulled the motor for a rebuild and did a turbo kit at the same time. Also did the landtank alternator upgrade.
Everything worked fine prior to pulling.
I realized this is my fault but life happened and I initially pulled the motor almost two years ago. Can't exactly remember where everything went and my photos were mostly of the motor and not the wiring.
Everything is back together but when turning the key I get 3 clicks and the starter doesn't even try to do anything. It worked fine before pulling the motor. I tapped starter with a hammer - no change. I'm getting fuel because I can smell it and something is not tight enough either (small drip/leak - will fix but not main issue atm).

There seems to be no great wiring harness diagram to be honest. Everyone says "look at FSM" but its absolute garbage for where the grounds go. I have the small wire that goes to the manifold hooked up fine by the PS reservoir. The larger wire by the starter that seems to bolt to manifold but looks like it could go to starter [all black, thick, 'ribbed' eyelet] (closer to firewall, driver side) as well, is bolted in. The "main" ground off the engine harness that screws in by the engine mount (90* eyelet) is also bolted in where it belongs. The very large and super stiff wire that connects to "inner fender apron" (I've spent about 8 hours searching for where this goes and cannot find a *single* picture ****anywhere***) is connected to the metal bracket that screws into the driver's fender that holds two hard lines by the battery. I did the landtank alternator upgrade as well - I get this may be a "fusible link' issue as some of this is replaced with the kit. I followed the instructions but they/the pictures especially are uh...not very good imo so its hard to tell if I did it right. Its definitely more difficult when coming from nothing like the entire motor being removed so again probably my fault but stumped as to what is going on here.

The starter worked fine before pulling motor. The exciter wire is hooked up no problem and honestly now I can't even get it disconnected to try to jump the starter. The thick main starter wire off the harness with the plastic cap is connected.

No idea what is going on here as the wiring seems incredibly simple. Any suggestions welcome.
 
You need the EWD for electrical, it’s far superior to the FSM for electrical.

Pull the starter, it’s probably the contacts. Sitting for 2 years may have contributed to corrosion building up on starter contacts.

Does the starter click but not turn the engine?
 
Try jumping the starter, small wire length from the battery to logic wire on the starter and see if that works, if it does than your issue isn’t the starter.
 
I do get a click - one larger/louder click then two smaller. Can hear fuel pump running.

Will try to jump starter later today. I thought the logic wire wasn't on very well so I removed it then clicked it back in and then I couldn't get it off last night lol. Strangely the black part it clicks into on the starter is able to rotate some - wonder if that's the issue if that's not supposed to happen.
The starter has been sitting this whole time but it was sitting in a clean/dry parts bin in the garage
 
diesekte said:
I do get a click - one larger/louder click then two smaller. Can hear fuel pump running.

Will try to jump starter later today. I thought the logic wire wasn't on very well so I removed it then clicked it back in and then I couldn't get it off last night lol. Strangely the black part it clicks into on the starter is able to rotate some - wonder if that's the issue if that's not supposed to happen.
The starter has been sitting this whole time but it was sitting in a clean/dry parts bin in the garage
Click to expand...
Yeah not sure why the signal wire is being stubborn, but if you can remove an engine I have no doubt you'll get it out. That's where you need to focus cause you'll get a lot of answers real fast from what works/doesn't work on either side of that connection
 
diesekte said:
I do get a click - one larger/louder click then two smaller. Can hear fuel pump running.

Will try to jump starter later today. I thought the logic wire wasn't on very well so I removed it then clicked it back in and then I couldn't get it off last night lol. Strangely the black part it clicks into on the starter is able to rotate some - wonder if that's the issue if that's not supposed to happen.
The starter has been sitting this whole time but it was sitting in a clean/dry parts bin in the garage
Click to expand...
Something to keep in mind.
The starter circuit is isolated from just about every other system on the vehicle. Starter cranking has NOTHING to do with any ECU/EFI/FUEL system.
Starter logic (small push-on connector): Battery positive/FL AM1/fuse AM1/ignition switch/NSS/starter solenoid.
Starter power (terminal lug): direct connection to battery positive.
Starter ground is through the case that is bolted to the bellhousing.

1776699887824.webp
 
Loud click/thunk is starter contact/plunger or power feed to the starter(doubtful)
 
Edit-

Pulled the starter and it does extend and spin when on the bench. Reinstalled and:

I have one of those Teslong brand car colonoscopy deals. Stuck it up there and starter gear seems to be in good position fully retracted away from the flex plate. When key to ignition, the solenoid does extend. It was hitting the flex plate/not meshing up so i rotated the motor a hair and it still doesn't work. Key to start causes starter gear to extend and mesh with the flex plate, but it doesn't turn the flex plate/still doesn't start the motor, and the gear does not retract unless I turn the motor a little by hand.

Will try replacing the starter unless anyone has any other good ideas. The battery isn't the strongest (its probably 2 years old as well) but is fully charged and I'm hooked up to a charger with the 'engine start' little power boost mode engaged - makes no difference.
 
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Try a jumper cable from the battery to the starter. This eliminates the power feed wire.
Just because the starter motor spins does not mean it’s good also. It could just be a weak starter motor.
Eliminate one part of the problem at a time.
 
Replaced starter - no change.
Key on causes the starter gear to extend, which correctly meshes with flex plate. I hear a whirring but the starter doesn't really "kick". Battery is from 3/23 and variably 75-100% charged. Same exact issue with two different (1 brand new, one maybe 3-4 year old that worked before) starters - it isn't that. The starter does not turn the motor at all. If I line up the timing marks the motor doesn't rotate whatsoever if I try once or 10x. The motor rotates by 1 hand via a long bar with the correct socket on the crank bolt, so its not frozen or clearances too tight etc as far as I can tell. Not really trying to load the parts cannon here but a new battery would be my next step unless anyone has anything different to say.
 
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diesekte said:
correctly meshes with flex plate. I hear a whirring but the starter doesn't really "kick".
Click to expand...
You lost me a little here. Does "whirring" equate to spinning? If so, I fail to see how anything could be spinning if the spur gear is meshed to a stationary flex plate.
Does it seem like the starter is trying (ie, applying significant torque) to turn the motor? If it's hard to tell look for small jerks in the rotating assembly when the starter is first energized, or see if there's a large current draw (such as dimmed lights) while the plunger is extended.
If a week starter is suspected you could try pulling spark plugs and belts to see if you get any motion that way. Would be a good time to check that the resistance is all but gone when turning by hand
 
Hey y'all this is solved as of last night. My wiring harness had some tomfoolery going on that I discovered when I started picking it apart as I saw a few breaks in the alternator wire, both knock sensors etc. I took all the wiring apart and put it back together since I did the cable upgrade and it's all solved now. Bad ground or break in the cable from the battery to the starter. The issue was the gear was extending it just wasn't applying any torque.

Now that I'm running I get to chase why it runs absolutely terrible lol. I think I got my distributor in 180* out but that's a different issue
 
[/QUOTE]
Nice! Sounds lik
ppc said:
If the distributor was 180 out the motor would not run.
Click to expand...
My first 1fz rebuild the manual I followed was wrong and had me install the dizzy 180 out. We did in fact get it to run (terribly)
 
Nice! Sounds lik
My first 1fz rebuild the manual I followed was wrong and had me install the dizzy 180 out. We did in fact get it to run (terribly)
[/QUOTE]
How is that possible? Igniting at the top of the exhaust stroke with the valve open yields no compression and no power stroke.
 
jonheld said:
How is that possible? Igniting at the top of the exhaust stroke with the valve open yields no compression and no power stroke.
Click to expand...

I honestly have no idea. I wouldn't believe it if I didn't see it myself. It took a lot of cracking to get it to sputter, which eventually died out. But it surely was rotating on it's own without the help of the starter.
 
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