Need Input. 8HP70 into FZJ80

[vwhammer]

I literally sat here for like an hour and typed up this whole spiel about this and that surrounding my choice to put an 8HP in my truck but then realized that was only diverging from the point.

So, lets get to that
I bought an 8HP before I even bought the truck so i knew from the get go that that was the plan.

Main issue I am having is the fact that I live in Colorado and I have to do an emissions check once every two years.

Given that my truck is a 97, it has ECU/TCU combo
If I remove my trans for the new trans my engine may not run right but more than that is the fact that I will likely get a check engine light.
That means I fail my E check.

I have read all the things on the nets about ways to fix this but most are either inconclusive or are for places where there is no E check.

Has anyone sorted a way to get rid of the stock trans, pass emissions, still have factory drivability and have no check engine light?

 

[smorkington]

register out of state

 

[BTLSHP]

Find a friend out of the 4 Front Range counties. Register there, problem solved. That said the Emissions guys were great about helping solve our issues (failing but not quite failed O2 sensor).

 

[NeverFinis]

Looking at the FSM, there is one transmission issue that might trigger an ECM check engine light: Park Neutral Safety Switch.

You will need to figure that out and inform the ECM when the 8HP is in Park or Neutral. A standalone TCM should be able to output the P/N signal to the ECM.

 

[vwhammer]

Yeah I was just looking at the manual last night in the hopes of sorting this out.
I could likely keep the check engine light off which in theory could let me pass emissions but I think there are some other inputs that the ECU receives that can affect idle speeds and drivability. At least thats what I have read online.
More studying of wire diagrams might point me in the right direction but its hard to say what those signals need to be and for how long and what not
It's possible that the Turbolamik TCU that I am running can put out nearly any signal I would need but I can't say for sure.
Could talk to some of the companies making emulators for the other toyotas of similar era and see if they might offer some assitance.+
of course if the Turbolamik/8HP combo could give the appropriate outputs that would be ideal but they are two different animals.

 

[60 toy ota]

There's a whole huge write up about the 8hp install and how to make the check engine light happy. Should be at the top of a Google search

 

[vwhammer]

Well after more digging I did come across this thread on there that, from what I can tell, has the info I was looking for.
1FZ trans swaps 6R80 10R80 and more - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/1fz-trans-swaps-6r80-10r80-and-more.1330551/page-13
For the record most of the info I needed was on the last page.
There are a couple things scattered in the thread (like the cruise control fix) but OutlawMike does a pretty good job at pointing out where those things are.

Now I just need to sort out things like the speedometer since I will not be running a stock transfer case.
I don't know if that will fail me in the E check but I do know that they run the truck on a dyno type thing and have to reach and maintain various speeds throughout the test.
I wanna say that they are using the speed up on the screen and not the vehicles speedo but I haven't been there in a minute so I don't recall.
I do need to take my 80 in in the next 30 days to get an E check so I will pay more attention.
I might just straight up ask if they require a speedo to work
If not I can just retrofit a GPS speedo kit of some sort and be done with that part

My trans adapter is on backorder from Domiworks and I likely will not do this swap until after summer anyway so I can do some camping this spring and summer.
In the mean time I might use the info I know and design up my own emulator with a little 3D printed box to keep it all tidy.

Just for fun here is the ol' girl just waiting for all my upgrades to show up.

She's getting a bit of a birthday as I have purchased every bearing, bushing, joint and seal for the whole suspension and axles.
I have new 4.88 gears (also on backorder) front and rear ARB lockers, a 5th gen 4runner front brake upgrade some 35x11.50 tires going on some good ol' fashion steel wheels.

Did manage to find some 2 inch lift OME springs and very lightly used Eibach shocks on marketplace so that will be going on as well.
I have winch waiting on the shelf

I managed to get lucky on an alternator upgrade.
Originally this truck was going to get a 1UZ swap. Yeah Yeah I know thats dumb... low end torque... just do an LS swap... bla bla bla. I had my reasons.
Now for emission check reasons I have bailed on that idea.
I checked all the loopholes and workarounds but most seemed like more of a hassle than what they are worth.
Some could even lead to tax evasion charges which is 100% not what I am trying to do.

Anyway I had already purchased a 1UZ from a 99 GS400 and bought a 250 amp alternator upgrade for that as this is a camping rig after all and I need that power.
I was a little bummed that I could not use the 1UZ and more bummed because now I had this alternator that was just going to sit there.
However, I was looking at the Sequioa 150 amp alternator upgrade with the bracket that Delta now sells and actually bought a use 150amp sequioa alternator.
Just for fun I got the 1uz alternator out and compared it to the sequioa alternator and I'll be dipped if they arent the same case.
Ok not exactly the same but the ear that is missing I believe is not used with the Delta braket anyway.

Heck I think it even has the same plug as the 1FZ alternator so I won't even have to mess with that.

We'll see if it works here shortly as I am going to get into the front of this engine to replace the crank snout seal, oil pump seal and put a new distributor o ring in while tackling the alternator upgrade at the same time.

Ok I've done enough rambling. I'm just excited.
I've always wanted an 80 series but was never realy in a place to get one or kind of assumed they were a bit to unrefined or something. I dunno it just seemed like not the right thing for me.
So I went through all the other toyotas.
Started with a Tacoma.
That was not it.
Had a 100 series with all the upgrade bits on it that I liked very much but at the time I had just moved to CO and did not know many people doing the off road camping thing.
I was just daily driving the thing and is seemed like a waste.
I knew what the truck could potentially be worth and all I saw was dollar signs so I sold it.
I still regret that sale to this day but I also feel that was not the truck I wanted.
Next I did what everyone in Colorado does and bought a 5th gen 4Runner.
Actaully my wife bought it in 2017 and when she bought a new car I kind of took it over.
Did the lift and awning and bigger tires and skid plates. All the usual stuff.
Went camping twice in it and determined it was too small and maybe too nice to cut up or beat up so I sold that to a friend of mine.
Then it started getting warmer in CO and I was without a rig so I had to make something happen.
Now I have the landcrusier. We'll see how this goes.

There you have it.
This thread is kind of my backwards ass way of introducing myself and my latest project.
I've actually been on here since 2014 but don't really post much.

So until next time.

 

[GORDA91]

False advertising. I thought you wanted help sorting out why your 1FZ was only producing 8 horsepower. I was going to tell you to put her down…

 

[vwhammer]

Ha didn't think about that.
Maybe I'll change the title so nobody else gets duped.

 

[bski90]

I think you're onto something with the alternator thing, 250amp would be a wild upgrade, likely putting out more at IDLE than the 80amp at peak. Can you take some measurements, like thickness of ears, spacing, etc, and see how much delta there is between them? I need an alternator upgrade and going to a 250amp would be awesome.

 

[vwhammer]

I think you're onto something with the alternator thing, 250amp would be a wild upgrade, likely putting out more at IDLE than the 80amp at peak. Can you take some measurements, like thickness of ears, spacing, etc, and see how much delta there is between them? I need an alternator upgrade and going to a 250amp would be awesome.

I mean there are plenty of high current (220 and up) alternator upgrades that will bolt right up to the 80 series in the stock location so buying a high current GS400 alternator is not exactly the best option. Nor is it particularly cheap.
the stock GS400 alt only puts out like 100 amps.
the Sequoia 150 amp alt is still probably the best bang for the buck. but you do still have to buy the bracket unless you can rig up something yourself.
Honestly if you add up all the stuff needed for the Sequioa upgrade you might be better off just buying a 250 amp alt the just bolts in the stock location.

 

[bski90]

Ah I didn't realize it was an aftermarket unit. Yeah I agree with your statement, however it would be nice to go to autozone/napa/etc to buy a replacement alternator if the 250a craps out while on a trip.

 

[Jstawgn]

Lexus V8 Engines llc can flash the 1UZ ECU to manual and get rid of the CEL. Might be able to help with 1FZ too.

Lexus V8 Engines LLC

Get professional ECU Re-Mapping for optimized performance and reliability. Enhance your Toyota/Lexus engine today!

lexusv8.com

But if you are running 1UZ then run Maxxecu race and run the transmission with it. No need for separate TCU. Not sure what is the emissions requirements for 1997 vehicles. Should not be that hard to pass.

Did you run the ratio calculatio? 4.88 might be way too low for 8HP70 with 4.7 first gear. IFZ are not a power house but they don't rev high either.

Gear Ratio Calculator

www.grimmjeeper.com

 

[vwhammer]

Lexus V8 Engines llc can flash the 1UZ ECU to manual and get rid of the CEL. Might be able to help with 1FZ too.

Lexus V8 Engines LLC

Get professional ECU Re-Mapping for optimized performance and reliability. Enhance your Toyota/Lexus engine today!

lexusv8.com

But if you are running 1UZ then run Maxxecu race and run the transmission with it. No need for separate TCU. Not sure what is the emissions requirements for 1997 vehicles. Should not be that hard to pass.

Did you run the ratio calculatio? 4.88 might be way too low for 8HP70 with 4.7 first gear. IFZ are not a power house but they don't rev high either.

Gear Ratio Calculator

www.grimmjeeper.com

I feel like I have answered these questions already but what I think actually happend is I typed all this stuff up then realized things were getting a bit wordy so I tried to trim it all back some and it turned into a mess and I bailed on the whole reply.

Yes I was planning on the MaxxECU to run both engine and trans but had to bail on that.

So where I am in Colorado they are slowly adopting all the CARB standards for emissions.
Basically the ECU has to match the vehicle so when they plug into the ECU via the OBD2 port it has to tell them its a 97 toyota land cruiser or it automatically does not pass.
If this was an OBD1 rig there is a chance that I could sneak by with a 1UZ swap because they don't really look at the engine or emissions components and OBD1 ports were different or non existent across different brands and models and most were only there for jumper purposes to get flashy light codes in the dash.
1UZ probably would have passed with flying colors compared to the 3FE in early 80 series rigs.

I think I bitc.....complained about this already but I would be willing to bet money that the 1UZ produces fewer emissions than the 1FZ.
The grand scheme was to put a smaller more efficient engine in (that also happens to weigh 200lbs less than the 1FZ) and take advantage of the 8HPs gearing to make up for the torque differences between the 1UZ and 1FZ.
The peak torque on the 1UZ is technically more (310ftlbs vs 275ftlbs) but it makes that torque number 800RPM higher than the 1FZ
the 8HPs gear ratios and close gear spacing would have more than made up for that difference.

On the gear ratio note, if you would run 4.88 gears with the stock trans then it will be more than good with the 8HP.
The 8HP has an extra overdrive that is 12% lower than the A343F trans (.67 vs .75) so your cruising RPM will be lower at any given speed.
and the 8HPs extra low first and second gears will only be better when it comes time to get into low range.

I might have mentioned here or in one of my other threads that I have already sorted how to deal with the TCU once the 8HP is in place so I don't get any check engine lights and automatically fail smog check.

I am still super bummed to not be running the 1UZ as it was all part of my master plan.
I am not getting rid of the engine because I might just say F it and build it the way I want and have my mom register it in ohio because its stupid that they won't even test it
Like just test it. if it pollutes too much fine they win and I will accept defeat but if it passes then shut up and let me drive my truck.

Fun story to illustrate how ass backwards this has become.
I have a friend that converted a late 80s civic hatchback to electric years ago.
He's been smog checking it and registering it in CO for years. Never had an issue.
So he went to smog check it again this year, and they just told him no because it did not have any of the factory emissions equipment or an exhaust to stick the sniffer on.
IT'S F~(%IN' ELECTRIC OF COURSE IT DOES NOT HAVE ANY OF THAT!
It produces zero emissions but now he can't register it in his home county because of some bureaucratic BS.
He appealed to find out what the deal was.
It took them three months to basically tell him that it's because there is no info on what kind of batteries are in it and it could be a danger to firemen in an accident.
BS!
So he just had his dad register it in a non smog county where his parents live in CO.

At this point I don't want to give CO my tax dollars if this is how stupid they want to be.
They gonna try to get me on tax evasion charges for a 30 year old truck.

I mean what is that like $25-30 bucks a year? Fine send the FEDs to come find me. Seems like an appropriate use of our tax dollars.

To wrap this up, let me be very clear.
I own and electric car.
I am all for clean air and having vehicles that do not pollute excessively.
I am not trying to get around that.
I'm trying to embrace emissions standards by making my gross polluter less of a gross polluter.
Hell it barely passed emissions this time.

Like how is this better than letting me make it better?

 

[Jstawgn]

The regulations are definitely designed to the lowest common denominator. They do not want to hire engineer to work at smog station. They only want minimum wage people that can follow simple instructions. That is the way US government works. We condone and promote stupidity.

You should get it registered in Ohio

 

[White Stripe]

Yeah I was just looking at the manual last night in the hopes of sorting this out.
I could likely keep the check engine light off which in theory could let me pass emissions but I think there are some other inputs that the ECU receives that can affect idle speeds and drivability. At least thats what I have read online.
More studying of wire diagrams might point me in the right direction but its hard to say what those signals need to be and for how long and what not
It's possible that the Turbolamik TCU that I am running can put out nearly any signal I would need but I can't say for sure.
Could talk to some of the companies making emulators for the other toyotas of similar era and see if they might offer some assitance.+
of course if the Turbolamik/8HP combo could give the appropriate outputs that would be ideal but they are two different animals.

I think they check more than the check engine light. You can have a situation where a check engine light is off, but the drive cycles are not registering as completed and passed. If the monitors do not show as being passed, you fail the emissions test. To complete a drive cycle i believe the ecm has to get certain transmission gear input signals from the factory transmission. If you install a different transmission, it might not ever complete a drive cycle. You might be able to manipulate those signals with the stock Pringle switch somehow. You may also need a torque converter clutch lock signal as well. You can I believe hack the ecm to show all the monitors as passed and manipulate the check sum and cal id to be original. But you have to go to the dark portion of the web for that and its probably not legal.

 

[vwhammer]

You should get it registered in Ohio

Damn It you're right
I could do Ohio or I have some friends in Gilpin county here in Colorado and could possibly sort out a way to register it under an LLC there and be totally leagal and not risking any tax evasion issues.
Hmm I wonder if my adapter has shipped from Domi Works. I might email them again and see if I can switch back to my 1UZ adapter.
Ok I actually stopped mid reply to send an email to see if I can switch back to the 1UZ adapter that i orignally ordered.
I will just sort out how to register it when the time comes.
I need to work the numbers to really see the cost/benifit info between the two engine options but I think I will post that info in my build thread.
So if you would like to see me carry on you can check that from time to time.

 

[Marvelicious]

The regulations are definitely designed to the lowest common denominator. They do not want to hire engineer to work at smog station. They only want minimum wage people that can follow simple instructions. That is the way US government works. We condone and promote stupidity.

The regulations are designed to sell new cars. You can bet any emissions regulations had a fleet of manufacturer employed lawyers "helping" get the language just right. That is the way the US government works. Think about it, there's only one reason they wouldn't have some sort of exemption for an engine swap that makes the vehicle more efficient and cleaner: they don't want 30 year old cars on the road, clean or not. I know it sounds a little "tinfoil hat" on the surface, but I can assure you, that's how legislation is made.