Motor rebuild in progress (1 Viewer)

[Newbie2the80s]

Yes the project has started on rebuilding my motor. That really, I know nothing about. So I'm trying to get into this, ill just say, millennial way of research basically because its the only way with this rare motor. I'll give props to Otramm on helping me too on YouTube.
Ok so took me a week to get the motor and tranny out and taken fully apart and dropped off at the machine shop. Head and block to get hot tanked and cleaned. My first question is when the shop takes the valves and springs out to clean then put back together, will it make a difference if he doesn't put them back in the exact spots he took them out of? I still have both cams and caps and the 24 "buckets" at home. Yes I labeled them as the book said to. Do I need to bring him the cams and buckets so he can put them in and spec them and then call it good? I told him how the book said to label them and put back in their original order but he told me that doesn't matter. What am I missing on his 30yrs of machining motors? Like I said, my first question because ill have more. But here's my helper everyday and some pictures of our project started

 

[Irish Reiver]

Yes I labeled them as the book said to. Do I need to bring him the cams and buckets so he can put them in and spec them and then call it good? I told him how the book said to label them and put back in their original order but he told me that doesn't matter. What am I missing on his 30yrs of machining motors?

I would be nervous using a guy who said "it didn't matter" in relation to replacing the buckets and shims. The relationship between cam lobe, bucket and shim is unique which is why the FSM and every competent machinist will want them tagged accordingly. Sure you could start from scratch and work it all out but that is a sh1t load of work.

When i use a shop for the first time i don't offer up the buckets and shims or cams. I just give him the head and wait until his next move. If he doesn't know to ask for the hardware then he dosen't know...

 

[Newbie2the80s]

I would be nervous using a guy who said "it didn't matter" in relation to replacing the buckets and shims. The relationship between cam lobe, bucket and shim is unique which is why the FSM and every competent machinist will want them tagged accordingly. Sure you could start from scratch and work it all out but that is a sh1t load of work.

When i use a shop for the first time i don't offer up the buckets and shims or cams. I just give him the head and wait until his next move. If he doesn't know to ask for the hardware then he dosen't know...

Ok. You say shims. Where are they? All I got out were the buckets with the magnet. Under them I just saw the springs held down to the head.

 

[Irish Reiver]

The shims sit on top of the buckets. You wrote your location details on yours.

 

[Newbie2the80s]

The shims sit on top of the buckets. You wrote your location details on yours.

The shims sit on top of the buckets. You wrote your location details on yours.

Good I thought I missed them the way it's worded. The bucket is the shim. Or can the shim be takin off the bucket? Either way glad I didn't forget them in the head. Now, when he takes the springs and valves out, do they need to be pressed in where they came from? Or are the springs all the same size?

 

[Irish Reiver]

It's good practice to keep everything together and pop them back where they came from.
Don't forget to give him the new valve stem oil seals

 

[b56tc]

View attachment 2758380

Words cannot express how cool this picture is. The shop, the new beginning on a long term commitment, the relationship with your helper. She just wants to hang out with Dad.
Keep this one filed somewhere for a tough time, trust me on this

 

[manofthewoods]

two things...

As mentioned above the photo with your helper is worth more than any 80 EVER!

Next: You and I are twins. I'm in the middle of doing mine. I have got my block and head back however. Waiting on the last few parts orders, like 5 pistons (Partsouq could only send me 1 so...). The machinist I used originally wanted me to bring him the head with cams (buckets and shims in place). He assumed I could pull the head without doing the cams, but he said if you have to put them back on then you should. I opted not to and did what you did. Everything cleaned up great the only thing he needed were the seals (which I got - OEM). The valves did not go in where they came from, but he said Toyota is always so close that it shouldn't matter. The shim locations DO matter. I will have to check the clearance once I get the head on. So, we'll see.

Regarding the block: All cylinders measured to the outside of spec after honing. Not bad for 372,000 miles. He could have bored them, but said he wouldn't bother. It reminds me of when I saw a surgeon for my shoulder and I was sure I'd be making a payment on his Porsche. "No, you don't need surgery" I could do it but you'd be no better off.

With all the other stuff I'm doing it'll be a month (or more) before I'll be driving again. Oh well.

Enjoy the journey

 

[Newbie2the80s]

It's good practice to keep everything together and pop them back where they came from.
Don't forget to give him the new valve stem oil seals

Rt on and thankyou. After reading what you said i was able to sleep without worry or stress on the step im on at the moment.

 

[Newbie2the80s]

Words cannot express how cool this picture is. The shop, the new beginning on a long term commitment, the relationship with your helper. She just wants to hang out with Dad.
Keep this one filed somewhere for a tough time, trust me on this

Definitely agree with you on that!

 

[Newbie2the80s]

two things...

As mentioned above the photo with your helper is worth more than any 80 EVER!

Next: You and I are twins. I'm in the middle of doing mine. I have got my block and head back however. Waiting on the last few parts orders, like 5 pistons (Partsouq could only send me 1 so...). The machinist I used originally wanted me to bring him the head with cams (buckets and shims in place). He assumed I could pull the head without doing the cams, but he said if you have to put them back on then you should. I opted not to and did what you did. Everything cleaned up great the only thing he needed were the seals (which I got - OEM). The valves did not go in where they came from, but he said Toyota is always so close that it shouldn't matter. The shim locations DO matter. I will have to check the clearance once I get the head on. So, we'll see.

Regarding the block: All cylinders measured to the outside of spec after honing. Not bad for 372,000 miles. He could have bored them, but said he wouldn't bother. It reminds me of when I saw a surgeon for my shoulder and I was sure I'd be making a payment on his Porsche. "No, you don't need surgery" I could do it but you'd be no better off.

With all the other stuff I'm doing it'll be a month (or more) before I'll be driving again. Oh well.

Enjoy the journey

I'm waiting to hear from him on how the head and block look after he does his thing. Then ill order a full gasket set and rings and bearings. Did you buy new head bolts? Or main cap bolts? The book says measure them, which I did, and all are still within spec. After I checked over the cams I found 2 on the exhaust cam and one on the intake cam where the bearings ride with grooves in them. So I'm guessing I need to buy new cams?
And yes I do everyday love this time of my munchkins life where she won't leave my side

 

[Irish Reiver]

Definitely get new head bolts. I know they are pricey but in my opinion its a false economy to use the old ones. Might be worth thinking about using ARP studs at this point just in case you ever decide to transplant a turbo or supercharger.
I cant help you with the cap bolts or the cam issue unfortunately.

 

[manofthewoods]

I'm waiting to hear from him on how the head and block look after he does his thing. Then ill order a full gasket set and rings and bearings. Did you buy new head bolts? Or main cap bolts? The book says measure them, which I did, and all are still within spec. After I checked over the cams I found 2 on the exhaust cam and one on the intake cam where the bearings ride with grooves in them. So I'm guessing I need to buy new cams?
And yes I do everyday love this time of my munchkins life where she won't leave my side

new cams? that might be a question for your machinist or follow the FSM and use plastigauge for measurements. Makes me think I should look at mine again. fingers crossed, but, I thought they looked great.

Measurements for my head bolts were right on the edge of spec. Ottram said "when in doubt get new ones." they arrived two days ago. re: rod studs and main bearing bolts were easily in spec. so I didn't bother with new ones. New bearings all the way around, including thrust. It would be foolish to NOT do them.

Keep posting if you find new or interesting info. as you go. I'll do the same, though I'd kinda like it to be ho hum from here on out. On a side note: I did order a new wire harness. quite spendy, but I figured with all the time and heat cycles...

 

[flintknapper]

Machinist is correct. The valves and springs will make no difference. The buckets and shims DO!

The machine shop will dress the valve seats as necessary, put an angle grind on each valve and 'tip' the valves as required.

They should also check each valve spring for height and compression weight. I hope they know there are hardened washers under each valve spring. Otherwise they are going to lose a bunch of them when they hot dip.

Personally, I like to keep everything together and I'm sure they would have liked to have had the entire head to deal with, but it is what it is at this point.

Intake and Exhaust valve guide seals are different. I'm guessing they know that and will install each in the right spot.

 

[Newbie2the80s]

Definitely get new head bolts. I know they are pricey but in my opinion its a false economy to use the old ones. Might be worth thinking about using ARP studs at this point just in case you ever decide to transplant a turbo or supercharger.
I cant help you with the cap bolts or the cam issue unfortunately.

Ya smart choice at this point. How do I find those studs to order? The way I look at the main cap bolts is they are just as old and took the same beating as the head studs with temperatures hot to cold for 340,000 miles. Shouldn't they be replaced too or is there a difference between the two sets?

 

[Newbie2the80s]

Machinist is correct. The valves and springs will make no difference. The buckets and shims DO!

The machine shop will dress the valve seats as necessary, put an angle grind on each valve and 'tip' the valves as required.

They should also check each valve spring for height and compression weight. I hope they know there are hardened washers under each valve spring. Otherwise they are going to lose a bunch of them when they hot dip.

Personally, I like to keep everything together and I'm sure they would have liked to have had the entire head to deal with, but it is what it is at this point.

Intake and Exhaust valve guide seals are different. I'm guessing they know that and will install each in the right spot.

Thankyou. I hope he knows this also. I need a way to ask him that won't offend him making him think I don't trust his work. Are more common motors the same with intake and exhaust valve guide seals different?

 

[Newbie2the80s]

new cams? that might be a question for your machinist or follow the FSM and use plastigauge for measurements. Makes me think I should look at mine again. fingers crossed, but, I thought they looked great.

Measurements for my head bolts were right on the edge of spec. Ottram said "when in doubt get new ones." they arrived two days ago. re: rod studs and main bearing bolts were easily in spec. so I didn't bother with new ones. New bearings all the way around, including thrust. It would be foolish to NOT do them.

Keep posting if you find new or interesting info. as you go. I'll do the same, though I'd kinda like it to be ho hum from here on out. On a side note: I did order a new wire harness. quite spendy, but I figured with all the time and heat cycles...

Where did you order your stuff from? Bolts, rings and bearings kit.

 

[Irish Reiver]

Ya smart choice at this point. How do I find those studs to order? The way I look at the main cap bolts is they are just as old and took the same beating as the head studs with temperatures hot to cold for 340,000 miles. Shouldn't they be replaced too or is there a difference between the two sets?

The head bolts are TTY which is why the FSM has a measurement guide. I don't think the bearing cap bolts are TTY and if that is true then reusing them is okay.
I have never used the ARP studs but i guess a good place to start would be ARP | The Official Web Site - https://arp-bolts.com/ No doubt there are a few places online that supply these - maybe mudders like Wits' End, Solutions for Problems You Didn't Know You Had - https://absolute-wits-end.com/ or Cruiser Outfitters - http://cruiseroutfitters.com/ will stock these.

 

[Irish Reiver]

Where did you order your stuff from? Bolts, rings and bearings kit.

There are 2 ways to order parts:
1) Work out what you need yourself and order from Partouq or McGeorge
Or
2) engage a cruiser ninja who will tell you what you really need and where to purchase them for the least amount of coin.

The problem with ordering parts from toyota is that you get what you asked for....so depending on what you order you won't necessarily get the ancillary parts that you need to fit it. The ninjas know what you need and trust me, you will save their fee in the multiple shipping costs that you will incur as you learn on the job.

 

[flintknapper]

Thankyou. I hope he knows this also. I need a way to ask him that won't offend him making him think I don't trust his work. Are more common motors the same with intake and exhaust valve guide seals different?