LX570 steering off center at speed (1 Viewer)

[Fasternfaster]

Hi all, this is my first post as a new owner.. I picked up this car 1 month ago and have been really enjoying my ownership so far.

I do have an issue though and it is bothering me quite a bit.

When i picked up the car i noticed that i was holding my steering wheel slightly left when driving on the highway so I asked my local Lexus dealer to do an alignment..

After the alignment i was now holding the wheel slightly right.. but surprisingly not at all times ( at some speeds the car drives straight )

I took it back and they did another alignment, i will post the numbers soon, i did a test drive and the car seemed to drive much straighter than before so i accepted their work and took it home.

Now after driving it around more and at different speeds i have at some moments hat to hold the wheel to the LEFT to keep it straight and on the highway i keep it to the RIGHT. There is a general loose feeling at speeds over 70mph as well.

I wonder how much of this is due to road camber, how much is due to wind, maybe my tires have been worn unevenly from the previous alignment? Another variable that might be related to speed is the AHC system that lowers and raises based on speed.

I am quite sure that when Lexus does the alignment they have the car in the NORMAL height mode, could the alignment (toe ) change when the car changes to (Normal-Low) mode at highway speed? Could the thrust angle caused by the rear axle movement due to pan-hard bar geometry be enough to change the way i have to hold the wheel?

Another variable.. the car has electrically assisted power steering from what the service manager told me, and that rack and steering wheel sensors have to be calibrated to hold center, so the system is not self centering like a hydraulic rack would be, could this be a contributing factor?

Since i have now gone to the Lexus dealer 2 times and it is still not driving straight, i wonder what i could do and if this system is too complicated for some other shop to service?

I just want the car to drive straight when i let go of the wheel ( as dangerous as that sounds, my intention is only to check alignment) and i want more stability at speed, not for fast cornering, but to stay in my lane.

 

[Fasternfaster]

This is the printout i got from the dealer. Not sure how they can measure toe and camber angle on a live rear axle!!? is my axle bent? is their equipment jacked up?

The positive thrust angle is consistent with having to turn the wheel slightly right to drive straight.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

Super short answer, you don't have anything set up for road crown. That is a pure strait and flat road setup. What you are feeling from pull at different speeds is simply the road is moving faster and there for requiring more input. Also your front right tire is toe out, so that is wanting to pull right also.

Some other things, the steering is mechanical still. There is a variable gear setup in the steering column, but that works to allow slip at higher speeds, and does not effect the issues you are having. Also thrust angle does not effect in the way you are set up, also your rear axle is not bent.

I recommend you have a half degree of positive camber added to your front left wheel, and make sure the shop actually spends the time to set toe properly with a +1/32" of toe or .1 degree. Not as bad, you also are sitting negative camber on both sides, you want to end at least +1 degree.

All and all, who ever did the alignment is probably the new guy that graduated from oil changes, all he did was adjust your tie rods.

 

[kwatty]

My 16 LC has same issue. On our way back from a trip (at about 15K miles on the odometer) I noticed I was holding the wheel to the left to go straight. Took it for an alignment and after that it was good. For a week. I now hold the wheel to the right to go straight. I did slightly rub a curb pulling into a parking spot before I noticed the wheel now offset to the right. Not sure that could be related though

 

[Fasternfaster]

Super short answer, you don't have anything set up for road crown. That is a pure strait and flat road setup. What you are feeling from pull at different speeds is simply the road is moving faster and there for requiring more input. Also your front right tire is toe out, so that is wanting to pull right also.

Some other things, the steering is mechanical still. There is a variable gear setup in the steering column, but that works to allow slip at higher speeds, and does not effect the issues you are having. Also thrust angle does not effect in the way you are set up, also your rear axle is not bent.

I recommend you have a half degree of positive camber added to your front left wheel, and make sure the shop actually spends the time to set toe properly with a +1/32" of toe or .1 degree. Not as bad, you also are sitting negative camber on both sides, you want to end at least +1 degree.

All and all, who ever did the alignment is probably the new guy that graduated from oil changes, all he did was adjust your tie rods.

does anyone have the specs for the LandCruiser 200? Can some one post the alignment print out that they got and are happy with their cars driving?

I think i saw somewhere that the LC200 camber settings are leaning more towards positive around +.3 (-.6 to +.9 ) and similar with toe ( slight toe in)

I am curious why Lexus specified ZERO toe and ZERO camber? It seems that without the preload on the toe links the car feels a bit nervous.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

I do my own alignments so I've never had a print out, but I have access to hunter alignment specs.

LC200
Front Caster 2.9±0.75
Front Camber 0.13±0.75
Front Toe (degrees) 0.24°±0.16°
Front Toe (inches) 0.12±0.08"

For my set up for Georgia roads that have to deal with a fair amount of rain is
Front left Front right
Caster +3, +3.4
Camber +1.3, +.1

That was to drive strait on the interstate around me, and also move my front right tire back to clear a larger tire.

Cross-caster/camber is how you "pull a car to a desired direction." Now there is absolutely a limit, but anything below 2 degree off of 0 will not wear a tire irregularly.

 

[Fasternfaster]

so you had to dial in that much extra positive camber to keep it straight on the highways.. does that mean its not driving straight on other roads? I guess i am trying to figure out if what i have is just the nature of the beast ( sometimes driving straight and sometimes not)

I want to know how much of it is road/camber/wind/tires/torque steer etc...

My other car is a BMW M3 with 275 section width tires, it tramlines pretty badly, but i live with it because it also corners like its on rails.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

Well, any full time 4wheel drive will naturally be more sensitive to road crown than an all wheel drive found in everything from Subarus to audis. Also the roads I'm on do lean pretty good. That said, on a flat road, the truck drives strait.

Now if your has been pulling for ten of thousands of miles, one of the tires could have radial run out. Switch your front tire from left to right, if the pull goes to the opposite side, you know you have a bad tire.

The 200 is pretty heavy to be pushed too much, besides I never adjust the alignment for some like wind that can change, with the wind. (See what I did there)

For torque steer, speed doesn't matter. But when you push the accelerator hard, does the wheel want to push a certain way?

 

[gaijin]

does anyone have the specs for the LandCruiser 200? Can some one post the alignment print out that they got and are happy with their cars driving?

I think i saw somewhere that the LC200 camber settings are leaning more towards positive around +.3 (-.6 to +.9 ) and similar with toe ( slight toe in)

I am curious why Lexus specified ZERO toe and ZERO camber? It seems that without the preload on the toe links the car feels a bit nervous.

Don't know if this will help, but it is the printout I received from my dealer when he offered to put my 2013LC on his new alignment machine just to see how it works. Mine drives down the road with no drift or hunting. Let go of the wheel and, absent any severe crown in the road, it continues straight - I'm very happy with it. Unfortunately, they only did the front toe and camber:

HTH

 

[Markuson]

Don't know if this will help, but it is the printout I received from my dealer when he offered to put my 2013LC on his new alignment machine just to see how it works. Mine drives down the road with no drift or hunting. Let go of the wheel and, absent any severe crown in the road, it continues straight - I'm very happy with it. Unfortunately, they only did the front toe and camber:

HTH

Man, that's the nicest visual of any service I've ever seen as a print-out.

 

[Fasternfaster]

So i just wanted to provide an update on this issue.

I recently had a flat on my front left tire and decided to replace it as well as the passenger front as they appeared to be more worn than the rear tires. Upon closer inspection of the tread on the front tires, it appeared that it was more worn on the inside shoulder than the outside, probably from excessive negative camber prior to having the alignment done by the dealer?

Anyway the weird pulling to the side and tram-lining issues are GONE! i guess when your tires are cone shaped and you get them aligned with 0 (close to it) camber they will ride on the outside edge and seek out any road camber imperfections like crazy.

I am happy that my car rides straight now, but a bit upset that i had to get a half set of stock size tires, i really wanted to use these up until the summer to then put on 33" tires.


TL;DR

My tires were worn unevenly on the front, so even with a good alignment the car was driving bad.