Knuckle Rebuild Cost and Help Request

[NewbieMcNewster]

Hey everyone, I just got quoted $2900 for a knuckle rebuild, which was a bit of a shock and has me reconsidering whether I should just try to do this myself. I understand that, as everyone says, it's "not that hard, just time consuming and really, really, super really dirty". Per my other posts, I'm not the most mechanically experienced person, but this needs to get done at some point sooner than later, and I really would rather not spend almost $3K on it.

Is there anyone on here in the North Dallas (or Northwest, even better) who has experience with these and would be interested/willing to help me undertake this some weekend when timing and schedules align, for some reasonable compensation I'd be happy to negotiate? Not looking for someone to come do it themselves (unless that's a service anyone wants to offer, in which case I'm curious), but someone who can lend a hand and sherpa me through this. I've got plenty of working space and jack/jack stands.

Alternatively, does anyone have suggestions for shops around Dallas that would do this for a lower price? I just tried Mike Dajda and got what seemed like a "number not in service" message on the phone, so I don't know if he's still around and working.

Finally, if $3K is just what a knuckle job costs these days and I need to get over myself, I'm open to hearing that hard truth as well.

Goal is to get my LX450 in good enough shape to drive to and complete Black Bear Pass and Imogen Pass in July, and the knuckles definitely need doing before that can happen.

 

[bhsdriller]

check out some youtube videos, buy some tools and parts and be in it for way way less.

3k for knuckle rebuild is outlandish. Is that also including all new hubs/rotors/brakes?

 

[Malleus]

Hey everyone, I just got quoted $2900 for a knuckle rebuild, which was a bit of a shock and has me reconsidering whether I should just try to do this myself. I understand that, as everyone says, it's "not that hard, just time consuming and really, really, super really dirty". Per my other posts, I'm not the most mechanically experienced person, but this needs to get done at some point sooner than later, and I really would rather not spend almost $3K on it.

Is there anyone on here in the North Dallas (or Northwest, even better) who has experience with these and would be interested/willing to help me undertake this some weekend when timing and schedules align, for some reasonable compensation I'd be happy to negotiate? Not looking for someone to come do it themselves (unless that's a service anyone wants to offer, in which case I'm curious), but someone who can lend a hand and sherpa me through this. I've got plenty of working space and jack/jack stands.

Alternatively, does anyone have suggestions for shops around Dallas that would do this for a lower price? I just tried Mike Dajda and got what seemed like a "number not in service" message on the phone, so I don't know if he's still around and working.

Finally, if $3K is just what a knuckle job costs these days and I need to get over myself, I'm open to hearing that hard truth as well.

Goal is to get my LX450 in good enough shape to drive to and complete Black Bear Pass and Imogen Pass in July, and the knuckles definitely need doing before that can happen.

I'll fly to Dallas and do it for you for $2K

 

[Old Nick]

Hey everyone, I just got quoted $2900 for a knuckle rebuild, which was a bit of a shock and has me reconsidering whether I should just try to do this myself. I understand that, as everyone says, it's "not that hard, just time consuming and really, really, super really dirty". Per my other posts, I'm not the most mechanically experienced person, but this needs to get done at some point sooner than later, and I really would rather not spend almost $3K on it.

Is there anyone on here in the North Dallas (or Northwest, even better) who has experience with these and would be interested/willing to help me undertake this some weekend when timing and schedules align, for some reasonable compensation I'd be happy to negotiate? Not looking for someone to come do it themselves (unless that's a service anyone wants to offer, in which case I'm curious), but someone who can lend a hand and sherpa me through this. I've got plenty of working space and jack/jack stands.

Alternatively, does anyone have suggestions for shops around Dallas that would do this for a lower price? I just tried Mike Dajda and got what seemed like a "number not in service" message on the phone, so I don't know if he's still around and working.

Finally, if $3K is just what a knuckle job costs these days and I need to get over myself, I'm open to hearing that hard truth as well.

Goal is to get my LX450 in good enough shape to drive to and complete Black Bear Pass and Imogen Pass in July, and the knuckles definitely need doing before that can happen.

Getting ready to do this myself. Waiting on parts to arrive and for the weather to get a bit warmer (a week or so), then having at it.

You can do this yourself. I’m replacing the axles (oem) and birfs (RCVs), hubs (oem) etc. while in there and got all of the parts and kits for WAY, way under $3k. The 32 y/o old parts will be trail spares. Yes, it takes time, but getting to know your truck will be a pleasure.

OR you can fly Malleus in… lol.

 

[Malleus]

Seriously, $2K will cover my flight, and my labor. You supply the parts. It's cold here anyway.

 

[Old Nick]

Seriously, $2K will cover my flight, and my labor. You supply the parts. It's cold here anyway.

Man, I thought you were joking… lol. That’s very cool of you.

 

[Malleus]

I need to visit my daughter anyway...

 

[use2bn83]

Hey everyone, I just got quoted $2900 for a knuckle rebuild, which was a bit of a shock and has me reconsidering whether I should just try to do this myself. I understand that, as everyone says, it's "not that hard, just time consuming and really, really, super really dirty". Per my other posts, I'm not the most mechanically experienced person, but this needs to get done at some point sooner than later, and I really would rather not spend almost $3K on it.

Is there anyone on here in the North Dallas (or Northwest, even better) who has experience with these and would be interested/willing to help me undertake this some weekend when timing and schedules align, for some reasonable compensation I'd be happy to negotiate? Not looking for someone to come do it themselves (unless that's a service anyone wants to offer, in which case I'm curious), but someone who can lend a hand and sherpa me through this. I've got plenty of working space and jack/jack stands.

Alternatively, does anyone have suggestions for shops around Dallas that would do this for a lower price? I just tried Mike Dajda and got what seemed like a "number not in service" message on the phone, so I don't know if he's still around and working.

Finally, if $3K is just what a knuckle job costs these days and I need to get over myself, I'm open to hearing that hard truth as well.

Goal is to get my LX450 in good enough shape to drive to and complete Black Bear Pass and Imogen Pass in July, and the knuckles definitely need doing before that can happen.

With how unknown the condition of most of these vehicles are these days $2900 may be in the right ball park. It would be interesting to see the quote. For a competent shop that is using high quality parts and offered a warranty I’d venture to guess that 2900 seems like a fair quote. $250 for aftermarket kit with wheel bearings, probably 2-3x that if they are looking at OEM parts. Add in 350 for a pair of aftermarket birfs, maybe a shaft for 150, drive flanges at $200, fluids and grease 100, and 8hrs of labor at 150/hr is $2250 that’s before a spindle is bad, a stud in mangled, previous owner helicoiled a caliper mount, rotor is smoked, pads are bad, or tax.

 

[Kernal]

@NewbieMcNewster : how many miles on your LX450? What problems are you having with the front axle now?

Close to $3000 without knowing what's included or what parts need replacings seems like a high estimate by that shop, maybe they got burned in the
past by quoting too low??

If you start at that price then end up needing more than a standard kit for the front axle like bearings, studs, nuts, other small hardware, and the CV joints (birfields) or axle shafts need replacing then the quoted price could easily double using OEM parts.

There are also high quality Made in Japan aftermarket kits and parts that can save you money (Cruiserteq for example).

Watch a few youtube videos to get a better idea of what it all involves. IME the key is to not get overwhelmed by the total job,
think of it as a dozen smaller jobs (repeated on both sides) and decide if you want to tackle it yourself. Helps a lot to have a second vehicle in case you run into problems, need more parts not available locally, etc, to take the pressure off.

There're a couple dozen tips for this job IME but FWIW here's a few common ones: the CV joints do not wear evenly side-to-side so consider swapping them when it's all apart, left side to right, right side to left. Think of it like rotating tires to even out the wear to get maximum mileage out of them.

Also one of the most common problems people run into is when the axle shafts have developed a wear groove where the axle shaft seal lips
ride on the axle shaft, if that happens even a brand new axle shaft seal will not seal correctly. Two methods to fix that, either drive the new seal a couple millimeters deeper than usual or replace the axle shafts if the wear is significant. Or (controversial subject) some people have installed aftermarket axle shaft seals that are a different design compared to the OEM seals and which orient the seal on the shaft slightly deeper. Some report that they worked, some not so much.

Here's an easy to follow video (IMHO) going over the Front Axle/Hub/bearing/CV joint (Birfield) --- service or "Swivel Hub" Service/Rebuild (Aussie lanquage)

 

[Godwin]

Also one of the most common problems people run into is when the axle shafts have developed a wear groove where the axle shaft seal lips
ride on the axle shaft, if that happens even a brand new axle shaft seal will not seal correctly. Two methods to fix that, either drive the new seal a couple millimeters deeper than usual or replace the axle shafts if the wear is significant. Or (controversial subject) some people have installed aftermarket axle shaft seals that are a different design compared to the OEM seals and which orient the seal on the shaft slightly deeper. Some report that they worked, some not so much.

H

One more option to deal with a groove on an axle shaft is the speedi-sleeve. I installed a pair on axles while recently rebuilding a front axle and have put a few thousand miles on without leakage.

 

[dogfishlake]

You can totally do this on your own. It is messy, and you may even have to dive back in if a little thing like your wheel bearing preload isn't enough (ask me how I know), but it won't hurt anything and isn't difficult. I was terrified when I did my first knuckle job and turns out it was actually really fun. The next ten you do on your future Land Cruisers is where it starts to suck

And if you truly don't want to do it, I would take up @Malleus offer. That's pretty cool.

My only other advice is to get it done sooner rather than later and get some miles on the truck. Finding errors while on the trip right after doing maintenance and repairs it tough.

Also, Black Bear is about spotters, brakes, and butt pucker. Otherwise it is pretty easy. An 80 makes it super easy.

 

[NewbieMcNewster]

Wow y'all, I wasn't expecting to get so many responses so fast! Lots of good info and suggestions here (and offers, thanks Malleus!) here. I wish that I could even fully understand a lot of what's being offered, but having never gotten into the axle before I'm not even sure what some of it is referencing and have no idea if I'd need a lot of extra parts.

It's definitely had the knuckles redone at some point in the past, I'm sure - it's at 225K miles - so hopefully it doesn't need a whole ton of additional parts replaced.

Malleus, I'm actually very tempted by your offer! It would be great to see how its done and help out where I can, as well as get a proper gearhead's input on a lot of little things with the rig (maybe we can finally diagnose the godd*mn wobble that I'm told isn't death wobble but feels like it all the time). We'd want to discuss current condition and necessary parts first, as well as timing, of course. Let me think on it a bit and get back to you!

Again, thanks to everyone who replied. My money and focus got tied up for a while in repeatedly paying a shop to repair a Range Rover, as well as dumping money into a 20 year old M3 that isn't rewarding it anymore. I'll soon be rid of both, and I have a daily, so I'm excited to focus on the LX for future projects and try to make it into something really great. It's just intimidating without any background in this stuff other than the random wrenching here and there (I have car ADHD).

 

[Malleus]

With how unknown the condition of most of these vehicles are these days $2900 may be in the right ball park. It would be interesting to see the quote. For a competent shop that is using high quality parts and offered a warranty I’d venture to guess that 2900 seems like a fair quote. $250 for aftermarket kit with wheel bearings, probably 2-3x that if they are looking at OEM parts. Add in 350 for a pair of aftermarket birfs, maybe a shaft for 150, drive flanges at $200, fluids and grease 100, and 8hrs of labor at 150/hr is $2250 that’s before a spindle is bad, a stud in mangled, previous owner helicoiled a caliper mount, rotor is smoked, pads are bad, or tax.

This is like quoting an engine rebuild for every oil change.

 

[use2bn83]

This is like quoting an engine rebuild for every oil change.

A bit dramatic, but yea. When something is that old, one has no idea what is going to come in. Thats why I think seeing the quote would be interesting. Personally I’d rather quote the customer high and come in low than call them and say hey I know we said 1800 but it’s 3k….. or more.

2k for you to come in and help. Him to buy enough parts to make sure the job is complete by the time you leave is probably only a few hundred bucks shy of what that shop quoted.

Just too many unknowns to know if that quote is really high.

 

[alia176]

I haven't read all the replies but I bet everyone is telling you to just "dive in". One thing I suggest is to jump on the clubhouse section and look for your local club. Post up this exact post over there and see if anyone is willing to help you out by laying out the steps, bringing over special tools, helping with the purchasing of all parts at a discount, etc. Lots of us are motivated by beer and pizza to help out newbies.

Additionally, please don't EVER go to just any indy shops for this rig. Find a highly regarded Cruiser shop that is intimately familiar with our platform. Their work will be much higher quality than a random indy shop. Most shops don't even want to touch old rigs like ours so they can't quote you an accurate price.

Good luck amigo.

 

[Malleus]

Wow y'all, I wasn't expecting to get so many responses so fast! Lots of good info and suggestions here (and offers, thanks Malleus!) here. I wish that I could even fully understand a lot of what's being offered, but having never gotten into the axle before I'm not even sure what some of it is referencing and have no idea if I'd need a lot of extra parts.

It's definitely had the knuckles redone at some point in the past, I'm sure - it's at 225K miles - so hopefully it doesn't need a whole ton of additional parts replaced.

Malleus, I'm actually very tempted by your offer! It would be great to see how its done and help out where I can, as well as get a proper gearhead's input on a lot of little things with the rig (maybe we can finally diagnose the godd*mn wobble that I'm told isn't death wobble but feels like it all the time). We'd want to discuss current condition and necessary parts first, as well as timing, of course. Let me think on it a bit and get back to you!

Again, thanks to everyone who replied. My money and focus got tied up for a while in repeatedly paying a shop to repair a Range Rover, as well as dumping money into a 20 year old M3 that isn't rewarding it anymore. I'll soon be rid of both, and I have a daily, so I'm excited to focus on the LX for future projects and try to make it into something really great. It's just intimidating without any background in this stuff other than the random wrenching here and there (I have car ADHD).

Regardless of which parts you use (Toyota or Terrain Tamer, etc.) you'll need parts/tools/materials that aren't in the kits. This is entirely doable in a driveway with no prior experience. You need, at a minimum:
» the proper year model service manual (from the Resources forum, 80 series section); this is a must have, even if you've done this before.
» Toyota special service tool (SST) for bearing 54–mm lock nut (this one on amazon, or similar); all will probably be 1/2" drive, so you need a breaker bar or ratchet, too.
» Toyota special service tool (SST) for wheel bearing preload setting (AKA spring scale; I use a luggage scale); get a digital model.
» (2) 1–lb containers moly grease for the ball joints (grey grease), one for each side. NOT CV joint grease.
» (1) 1–lb container bearing grease (red).
» (1) 1–qt denatured alcohol (for general cleaning, and mineral spirit removal).
» (1) 1–qt mineral spirits (for bearing cleaning; this is the only solvent you need to clean bearings, regardless of type).
» (1) 1-gal container, emptied of distilled water and dry (you'll cut this in half longwise and use it for parts cleaning).
– Do not need this is you have a parts cleaning tank, but it must be CLEAN and free of all other solvent to wash bearings in; do not use any other container which has previously contained anything other than distilled water, otherwise you risk contaminating the bearings you are cleaning.
» (2) EXTRA gaskets (part number 43422-60060; your dealer will be able to get these for you); you'll need these if you don't get the preload correct on the first try and have to remove the drive flange. They're cheap, don't cheap out on this.
» 3–ft of Ø2–in sch 40 PVC pipe; for splitting the inner/outer shafts.

Good to have on hand:
» box of 100 disposable gloves
» box of shop towels
» (2) 5–gal trash bags; put the sheet pan in it and lay it under the knuckle.
» (1) full sheet pan (tell your wife you're getting her a new one; you can use a half sheet pan, but a full sheet is nicer to have and you'll use it for eveyrthing once you have it); for use under each knuckle during work.
» File (half bastard cut, hand file, for rear face of knuckle housing); for resurfacing the rear face which contacts the seals/felts (I also use my dremel and its grinding/polishing wheels)
» Steel impregnated epoxy (JB Weld steel reinforced epoxy, or equivalent); for resurfacing the rear face which contacts the seals/felts
» M6x1.0 tap; for cleaning the ridiculously small screw threads that retain the retaining ring behind the seals/felts
» magnetic shop light (I have far too many of these, they're great)
» JIS screwdriver (+)
» patience

Good to know:
Use only mineral spirits to clean bearings. Use only alcohol to remove the mineral spirits.
There is a lot of good to know information in Romer's sticky FAQ

HTH

 

[NewbieMcNewster]

Regardless of which parts you use (Toyota or Terrain Tamer, etc.) you'll need parts/tools/materials that aren't in the kits. This is entirely doable in a driveway with no prior experience. You need, at a minimum:
» the proper year model service manual (from the Resources forum, 80 series section); this is a must have, even if you've done this before.
» Toyota special service tool (SST) for bearing 54–mm lock nut (this one on amazon, or similar); all will probably be 1/2" drive, so you need a breaker bar or ratchet, too.
» Toyota special service tool (SST) for wheel bearing preload setting (AKA spring scale; I use a luggage scale); get a digital model.
» (2) 1–lb containers moly grease for the ball joints (grey grease), one for each side. NOT CV joint grease.
» (1) 1–lb container bearing grease (red).
» (1) 1–qt denatured alcohol (for general cleaning, and mineral spirit removal).
» (1) 1–qt mineral spirits (for bearing cleaning; this is the only solvent you need to clean bearings, regardless of type).
» (1) 1-gal container, emptied of distilled water and dry (you'll cut this in half longwise and use it for parts cleaning).
– Do not need this is you have a parts cleaning tank, but it must be CLEAN and free of all other solvent to wash bearings in; do not use any other container which has previously contained anything other than distilled water, otherwise you risk contaminating the bearings you are cleaning.
» (2) EXTRA gaskets (part number 43422-60060; your dealer will be able to get these for you); you'll need these if you don't get the preload correct on the first try and have to remove the drive flange. They're cheap, don't cheap out on this.
» 3–ft of Ø2–in sch 40 PVC pipe; for splitting the inner/outer shafts.

Good to have on hand:
» box of 100 disposable gloves
» box of shop towels
» (2) 5–gal trash bags; put the sheet pan in it and lay it under the knuckle.
» (1) full sheet pan (tell your wife you're getting her a new one; you can use a half sheet pan, but a full sheet is nicer to have and you'll use it for eveyrthing once you have it); for use under each knuckle during work.
» File (half bastard cut, hand file, for rear face of knuckle housing); for resurfacing the rear face which contacts the seals/felts (I also use my dremel and its grinding/polishing wheels)
» Steel impregnated epoxy (JB Weld steel reinforced epoxy, or equivalent); for resurfacing the rear face which contacts the seals/felts
» M6x1.0 tap; for cleaning the ridiculously small screw threads that retain the retaining ring behind the seals/felts
» magnetic shop light (I have far too many of these, they're great)
» JIS screwdriver (+)
» patience

Good to know:
Use only mineral spirits to clean bearings. Use only alcohol to remove the mineral spirits.
There is a lot of good to know information in Romer's sticky FAQ

HTH

Well this is insanely detailed, comprehensive and helpful! I watched the Otramm video and was wondering if there was a list of tools, greases, and cleaning solvents somewhere, and it looks like you've got it pretty well sorted! Thanks a ton for all of your advice and help here. Unless the other local shop I contacted (Japanese import specialists with an FJ40 owner on staff) comes in with a crazy low quote, I think I may just end up tackling this myself!

 

[alia176]

Well this is insanely detailed, comprehensive and helpful! I watched the Otramm video and was wondering if there was a list of tools, greases, and cleaning solvents somewhere, and it looks like you've got it pretty well sorted! Thanks a ton for all of your advice and help here. Unless the other local shop I contacted (Japanese import specialists with an FJ40 owner on staff) comes in with a crazy low quote, I think I may just end up tackling this myself!

He forgot to mention , and lots and lots will be req'd for this project. It's SOP.

 

[NewbieMcNewster]

He forgot to mention , and lots and lots will be req'd for this project. It's SOP.

Despite my username, I'm not THAT new...

 

[Malleus]

He forgot to mention , and lots and lots will be req'd for this project. It's SOP.

I didn't mention a hammer to throw at the wall either, I just assumed some things were de rigueur.