Just Venting...

[Doc]

I went to go pick up my pig this morning. Returned empty-handed. Brakes still aren't right. The mechanic has had the pig even since I brought it home, nearly a month.

He's been working on it 'as he has time', and I'm starting to get frustrated. I'm generally not a anxious person, but this morning I finally just told him that I was really disappointed that he hadn't fixed it yet. My temp tags have expired, I now have to have it re-inspected, and I still can't drive it.

He HAS gotten them to work better, but they still aren't right. Before, you'd have to pump the pedal 10 times to get brakes, now you just have to pump them once, maybe twice. Still feels like there is air in the lines.

The first problem was that the shoes were binding up and not hitting the drums, he ground some of the metal off the shoe backing plate and got us to where we are today. Then he blocked off the rear brakes and found that the fronts work great, so the problem is in the back someplace.

Firstade (pig's PO) thought he had the wrong wheel cylinders- mechanic checked them and verified that they are correct, but just can't find that last nagging issue.

Man- I really wanted to drive the pig today too.

Kinda p!ssed off, kinda mad, very disappointed. ARGH!

 

[cruiser_guy]

The mechanic knows the rears are NOT self adjusting? He does need to adjust the "star" wheel manually (as you will need to do from time to time) to ensure the shoes are in close proximity to the drums.

It sounds to me like they need a little adjustment.

 

[rsbcruiser]

Doc, in addition to what Cruiserguy said I would like to add this. Your mechanics test is conclusion non correcto. And this is why. When you press your brake pedal, it displaces fluid. With the rears blocked off, the brake system now only needs to displace approximately half as much fluid. Thus, his test did not isolate the problem beyond a reasonable doubt. The root cause could still be one of several issues, front brakes and/or rear brakes out of adjustment, air trapped in the master, bulging flexible brake lines and incorrectly adjusted pushrods come to mind. Was the MC replaced? Is it drums all around? Repairing these old brakes is a dying art Doc.

 

[CarmMontana]

I had the same issues , seriously annoying but after countless adjustments to the drums my brakes are perfect. Did this last week with a buddy of mines brakes, on his 40, who has been pumping his brakes for 3 years and got them where they need to be, it takes some serious patience. Toyota brakes are tough, sounds like your mechanic needs to focus on your truck, i've never had luck with people who get to things as they can. This shouldn't take more than a couple of days of focused wrenching, and that includes issues found and fixed. Sorry you are having such a time but good luck and let us know.

 

[cruiser_guy]

I should add, if you are drums all around NONE of the brakes are "self adjusting".

 

[firstade]

Man Eric!
This is frustrating. Sorry you can't get the pig on the road this weekend! If the brake cylinders are right, I have no idea what it could be! The master cylinder was working great before the brake work. I am as stumped as you! sounds like your making some great progress so far! Someone before me put in that radio and it drove me crazy to see that center dash insert all bent up! Your living my dream! All the money I had went towards getting it to run better,not towards getting it more stock! Best of luck to you brother! You treat her right!
Andy

 

[Doc]

Re- self adjusting issue. Yeah, he knows. He has the rears adjusted up so hard against the drums that he says I can't drive it like that. HE THINKS there is air trapped in the cylinders. I have no idea anymore.

Oh well. Got out of the house today and went to see Green Zone. Sweet movie.

When I came home I had a new dash cap and 4 speed shift knob sitting on my porch. WOO HOO! Just wish I had a truck to put them on.....

 

[Doc]

PS, thanks guys- it's been a while since I've had an 'old' rig. I generally do all my own maintenance/work, but I don't trust myself with brakes (especially drums...).

Looking forward to tearing the dash down to the firewall this spring. I'm going to finish the dual battery install, then install a second fuse panel to run accessories off of. The mish mash of wires is ugly under the dash.

Andy called it "an eagles nest, with baby eagles", and that is putting it mildly. I plan to go back to the stock wiring set up, then run accessories off of the new fuse panel, with a new headlight circuit drawing power directly off the alternator (like slee's 80 series headlight harness). I picked up a pair of period correct fog lights from Mot to go on my stock bumper, those will get tied into the headlight circuit as well. Lots of plans. It'll take years to get there.

Among the other projects:

stock front bench seat (newer style, with head rests)
front disc brake swap (eventually- maybe next year)
Replace/ replumb rear heater. (currently absent!)
Sound deadner and carpet.

 

[3_puppies]

Doc, brakes aren't rocket science! problem could also be if a he is a"newer" mechanic, not used to older rigs. He could be overthinking it.

Also wonder if the master is for the correct year. If using a master for a disc brake front end, could be an issue??

 

[PabloCruise]

I agree, the drums are not rocket surgery.

Get out the FSM and follow the troubleshooting.

Did you bleed the brakes yourself before handing the Pig over?

If there are no lockers, adjusting the drums is just tedious, not beyond your ability.

 

[rsbcruiser]

One more thing. I heard that you can buy wheel cylinders that make it hard to bleed the brakes correctly. Don't remember exactly why this is, just a thought.

 

[Doc]

Nah- this guy has been a mechanic all his life, and he's 50 somethin... so I"m sure he's seen drums before.

Honestly- I thing the biggest problem is he's devoting about 1 hour a week to it so far.

 

[nuclearlemon]

does he know that the cylinders have to be adjusted out equally?

 

[Doc]

I'll ask.

 

[Ron B]

You said the PO bought new cylinders. The ccot ( I think it was them) cylinders have a problem trapping air inside and not bleeding it out. Check th 40 section and do a search. Theres a bunch of posts on it and the remedy.

 

[Doc]

Searched- found a couple of posts outlining similar problems- I'll give the suggested bleeding method a try.

Thanks for the tip!

 

[Gumby]

I'm betting on adjustment

Tapping on the wheel cylinders as you bleed them tends to get the air out.

 

[Doc]

Ron's suggestion got the fix. Pedal is now 'high and hard'!

Thanks guys! Now on to the other issues!

 

[rsbcruiser]

So, what did you do? replace the wheel cylinders?

 

[Doc]

Popped the top to bleed the cylinder. Apparently it's a 'known issue' with CCOT cylinders. But, I didn't know. There are a couple threads on it in the 40 section.