Issue with A/C

[98 SNAKE EATER]

So last Summer the A/C went out in my Cruiser

Compressor wasn't turning on, so I hooked up my gauges and the pressure was a little low

We were actually on our way to the beach and there was no way I was going there without A/C, so I grabbed a can off the shelf, topped it off and it was good to go

I never liked the idea of using cans, so the next day I brought her into my shop for a proper servicing.

Evacuated the entire system, did a leak down test and it held vacuum fine for well over an hour, so I just put the proper amount back in and she was good to go again

This was the first time ever servicing the A/C in this vehicle

Fast forward to last Friday

I drove to work with the A/C blowing ice cold

Found parking, shut her down, clocked in and went back to the parking lot to chill for an hour before my shift.

Started her up, but she was blowing nuthin but hot air.

At first, I thought maybe she was overheating, but when I hooked up my scanner, she was right at 187*

Next thought was maybe she threw the A/C belt, so I popped the hood and all looked normal

When I hit the A/C button, I could hear the compressor turn on and see the RPM's change slightly, but still only got hot air.

Checked the lines going into the core and they were hot

At that point I said F'it and just went to work cause it was just too hot out to mess with it.

About 2 hours later, I came back outside, started her up and she was blowing ice cold again.

Drove her all of last weekend without issue.

I was thinking perhaps just a sticky expansion valve or sumthin.

Needed to go to a doctor's appointment this morning and decided to drive her since my daily beater has just enough gas to get me to work and back.

Drove about 20 miles out to the office and she was just dandy.

After my appointment, headed back home and about a mile up the road, the compressor started making noise and she was blowing hot again.

Pulled over and shot this video:




Looks like the clutch is toast


Gunna try spinning the compressor shaft when I get a chance, but just curious if anyone here has replaced the clutch assembly without pulling the compressor?

 

[smritte]

Most of your japaneese compressors the clutch is held on with a bolt. Some have to be pressed off. The seal is on the main shaft so you wont worry about losing charge.
My question is, why do you think you need a clutch? In several decades of AC work, I can tell you I have seen very few bad clutch's. If its burned, the compressor is probably seized.
The clutch consists of an electro magnet and a plate. The system controls the power to the clutch, turning it on and off.
If you run power to it, it should work, if not the magnets bad. The plate itself will have an issue if its allowed to slip. This will be due to a magnet problem, seized compressor or someone pulled the clutch and didn't set the clutch gap properly. If your removing the clutch, the bolt type most of the time will have shims under it. Make sure you don't loose them.

 

[jpoole]

curious if anyone here has replaced the clutch assembly without pulling the compressor

Yeah, that's not too hard on these with the lines/hoses still attached, thus not loosing charge. Main risk may be the clutch/bearing being seized onto the nose cone and hard to remove though a few gentle hammer taps around the pulley can help, just don't bend the pulley. When you get the belt off and the compressor unbolted (just 4 12mm head bolts) you have a few options for getting access to the 10mm head bolt and snaprings. If you disconnect the electrical plug you can flip the compressor upside down and have pretty easy acess to the front of the compressor. If you don't want to do that you can pop the rad. overflow up and out of the way then point the front of the compressor in that direction, possibly propping the front up with a block. An impact wrench can make easy work of the 10mm head bolt removal and spare you trying to keep the clutch from spinning while removing it.

Is that noise a moaing belt or something else? Is the pulley on the AC compressor wiggly/loose or crunchy (could be bad bearing or compressor nose wear)?

FYI, I just priced out pretty full system replacement at around $550 which is pretty good in my opinion. That was with all OE/Denso compressor, dryer, expansion valve, condenser and evaporator plus a few other odds and ends. I can share the parts list if you want. In spite of that being in my near future I went ahead and replaced just the bad bearing on the compressor nose as it was cheap ($27) and was causing my issue. I hope to not deal with the full system refresh until the heat breaks around here in a few months.

Amazon product ASIN B07F19LLVQ
Good luck

 

[sogafarm]

I had a similar problem on mine when I first bought it. The A/C would blow cold at first, then just air temp. After trying a few different settings, I now keep it on "outside air input" instead of the "recirculating inside air". It seems to have helped, so I was thinking that it was the interior condensor had probably frozen up and was not circulating when in the recirculating mode probably due to trash surrounding the condensor. I just keep it on outside air mode these days until I can further explore.

I was thinking that about your problem as well, until I heard the squealing of your compressor. It sounds like it's seizing up. May need compressor oil or new compressor. Good luck!

 

[98 SNAKE EATER]

Most of your japaneese compressors the clutch is held on with a bolt. Some have to be pressed off. The seal is on the main shaft so you wont worry about losing charge.
My question is, why do you think you need a clutch? In several decades of AC work, I can tell you I have seen very few bad clutch's. If its burned, the compressor is probably seized.
The clutch consists of an electro magnet and a plate. The system controls the power to the clutch, turning it on and off.
If you run power to it, it should work, if not the magnets bad. The plate itself will have an issue if its allowed to slip. This will be due to a magnet problem, seized compressor or someone pulled the clutch and didn't set the clutch gap properly. If your removing the clutch, the bolt type most of the time will have shims under it. Make sure you don't loose them.

Might be hard to make out if viewing on a phone, but in the second part of the video (around the ~1:25 mark), you can see the shredded material around the clutch face and that it's struggling to turn.

I've changed plenty of clutch assemblies on other vehicles over the years, but have yet to do one on an 80.

First I need to determine if the compressor is in fact seized or not.

If the shaft turns, I'll just throw a clutch at it and cross my fingers, but I'm just curious if it was possible to fit my snap ring pliers in there without removing the entire unit.

Yeah, that's not too hard on these as long as the clutch/bearing isn't seized onto the nose cone somehow. May not hurt to pull the clutch out to see if you can tell more about what's going on as it's easy to do. When you get the belt off and the compressor unbolted (just 4 12mm head bolts) you have a few options for getting access to the 10mm head bolt and snaprings. If you disconnect the electrical plug you can flip the compressor upside down and have pretty easy acess to the front of the compressor. If you don't want to do that you can pop the rad. overflow up and out of the way then point the front of the compressor in that direction, possibly propping the front up with a block. An impact wrench can make easy work of the 10mm head bolt removal and spare you trying to keep the clutch from spinning while removing it.

Is that noise a moaing belt or something else? Is the pulley on the AC compressor wiggly/loose or crunchy (could be bad bearing or compressor nose wear)?

FYI, I just priced out pretty full system replacement at around $550 which is pretty good in my opinion. That was with all OE/Denso compressor, dryer, expansion valve, condenser and evaporator plus a few other odds and ends. I can share the parts list if you want. In spite of that being in my near future I went ahead and replaced just the bad bearing on the compressor nose as it was cheap ($27) and was causing my issue. I hope to not deal with the full system refresh until the heat breaks around here in a few months.

Amazon product ASIN B07F19LLVQ
Good luck

The sound was from the clutch trying to engage.

I gave it some revs and the noise went away, but then I noticed the shredded material and a burnt smell.

$550 isn't bad at all for Denso parts.

If she does need a compressor, I'll also throw in a condenser and drier at the very least.

Where did you source them from?

 

[jpoole]

Here's a parts list with links. A few of these may be cheaper elsewhere and you can possibly combine shipping/etc. I put this together a few weeks ago but will shop a bit more before I purchase. PartsGeek has comparable prices to RockAuto on some of this and Rockauto had the evaporator for less than Amazon not long ago. Also, I'd add flushing agent for the parts of the system you retain and you'll need R134 as well. Sounds like you have the tools to do this but if you don't want to buy you can rent vac. pump, gauges, etc. from many auto parts stores.

AC compressor	471 1166		$199.00	denso, apparently comes with oil but drain it and refill	More Information for DENSO 4711166 - https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=2023250&cc=1276691&pt=6628
AC Drier			$12.00	denso	More Information for DENSO 4780503 - https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=2993988&cc=1276691&pt=6972
AC Expansion Valve			$15.00	denso	More Information for DENSO 4752005 - https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=7570448&cc=1276691&pt=6788
evaporator	476-0045		$180.00	denso	Amazon product ASIN B008PJDBOK
AC condensor	477-0554		$80.00	denso	More Information for DENSO 4770554 - https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=870781&cc=1276691&pt=6708
orings			$15.00		More Information for UAC RS2580 - https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=9836012&cc=1276691&pt=13290
pag oil			$8.00	8 ozs. of PAG 46 oil, compressor may come with oil in it but drain it and refill, "I like to put about an ounce of oil in the Evaporator, 1/2 ounce in the drier, couple of ounces in the Condenser and the rest in the compressor (8 ozs total)."	More Information for FOUR SEASONS 59007 - https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=9661836&cc=1276691&pt=6928

 

[smritte]

but I'm just curious if it was possible to fit my snap ring pliers in there without removing the entire unit.

90 degree snap ring pliers FTW.
I was looking at mine the other day and it looked like it was possible.

 

[flintknapper]

Sounds like metal on metal *clutch*.

Either too much air gap, worn surfaces or weak magnetic coil.

You can pull the clutch and inspect. Turn the compressor shaft while you have it exposed. There should be slight resistance.

But IF the system is original and your finances and time will allow, I'd go ahead a do a full replacement.

IF you decide to do the clutch only....be sure you start with a new coil and get the air gap set correctly.

 

[1972FJ55]

If you remove the 4 hold-down bolts you can pivot the compressor enough to access the bolt and snap ring. You can leave the hoses attached. Don't lose the shims that you use to set the air gap. Sometimes they stick inside the hub.

 

[flintknapper]

If you remove the 4 hold-down bolts you can pivot the compressor enough to access the bolt and snap ring. You can leave the hoses attached. Don't loose the shims that you use to set the air gap. Sometimes they stick inside the hub.

Yeah,

That or fall off into the nether regions....never to be seen again.

In any case....clutch gap should be around .020" for proper function.

 

[98 SNAKE EATER]

Thanks for all the info

Anyone have a Denso Part # for a direct plug in clutch kit w/snap rings and a bag of shims?

I don't wanna have to splice in a generic pigtail on a new coil and I'd like to have new snap rings on hand in case they go flying across shop floor

 

[1972FJ55]

I don't see that Denso sells just the clutch for the compressor. It looks like it might be tough to find. Ranshu in Reno shows to have stock of new clutches, part #15-3031N.
1-800-628-0474

 

[98 SNAKE EATER]

I don't see that Denso sells just the clutch for the compressor. It looks like it might be tough to find. Ranshu in Reno shows to have stock of new clutches, part #15-3031N.
1-800-628-0474

Ok, that PN came up with this generic clutch kit that apparently fits my TLC as well as many other makes

Is this pigtail correct for a direct plug in?

I know it's usually single wire trigger anyways, but I'd rather not hack anything if I don't have to

 

[jpoole]

Here's another clutch though the wiring doesn't look as correct as the one you showed above, per what my '97 looks like at least:

More Information for UAC CL1654C

Doesn't sound like your first rodeo but I recommend pulling the old one off to assess the condition of the nose and try to get to the bottom of what's going on before you buy a new clutch. If the old bearing got sticky it may have turned on the nose of the compressor and eaten away the aluminum which will cause issues for the new clutch as well. You can also get a feel for how smoothly the compressor turns/etc.

 

[greentruck]

SNIP

But IF the system is original and your finances and time will allow, I'd go ahead a do a full replacement...

Had the clutch seize up a couple of years back. Had to cut the belt off to get home. This blew the fuse for it and much of the instrument panel, which seems to be the big difference between your situation and mine.

Considering the relatively low cost of a complete new compressor with clutch - and the age of the system - the labor involved in R&Ring the clutch only made simply replacing it not much more economic than simply replacing the whole unit, along with gaining the peace of mind that the compressor wasn't going to be a ticking time bomb.

Other than charging the system after the R&R I had them throw a new drier on it. Everything has been cool since.

 

[98 SNAKE EATER]

OK, finally had a chance to do a quick check and the compressor isn't seized

Seems to turn fine with normal resistence in both directions

Clutch is definitely smoked though

Probably from all the water crossings

EBay seller has a kit, but says it will only fit the OEM unit and not an aftermarket, so I pulled the splash pan and snapped a few pix just to confirm.

Looks as though it was replaced by the original owner with a Toyo Reman

Got a better look at the access and it definitely looks tight, but doable.

Just hope it slides out easily cause I don't think my puller will fit in there if needed

 

[flintknapper]

OK, finally had a chance to do a quick check and the compressor isn't seized

Seems to turn fine with normal resistence in both directions

Clutch is definitely smoked though

Probably from all the water crossings

EBay seller has a kit, but says it will only fit the OEM unit and not an aftermarket, so I pulled the splash pan and snapped a few pix just to confirm.

Looks as though it was replaced by the original owner with a Toyo Reman

View attachment 2752490View attachment 2752491View attachment 2752492View attachment 2752493View attachment 2752494

Got a better look at the access and it definitely looks tight, but doable.

Just hope it slides out easily cause I don't think my puller will fit in there if needed

It isn't pressed on...but is a close fit and over the years will accumulate crud. So don't expect it to slide off. But it should come off with some gentle prying. It looks to me as if the front seal of your compressor is leaking some.

 

[98 SNAKE EATER]

OK, so after comparing the price of the EBay clutch to a complete Denso unit, I've decided to just throw in a new compressor and drier cause although it spins fine, I can't really guarantee the condition until I have it all apart.

Question on the Denso unit listed above on RA:

Are they using a generic image for this listing?

I know the same compressor is used on many different makes and models, but the top plate looks different

Just curious if I'll have to swap over the plate (and if I'll need that gasket set)

 

[flintknapper]

OK, so after comparing the price of the EBay clutch to a complete Denso unit, I've decided to just throw in a new compressor and drier cause although it spins fine, I can't really guarantee the condition until I have it all apart.

Question on the Denso unit listed above on RA:

Are they using a generic image for this listing?

I know the same compressor is used on many different makes and models, but the top plate looks different

Just curious if I'll have to swap over the plate (and if I'll need that gasket set)

The replacement compressor with come with a shipping plate on it. You will swap your compressors old 'manifold/plate' onto the new compressor. The compressor should come with a new seal....or its acceptable to use the seal under the shipping plate.

 

[98 SNAKE EATER]

The replacement compressor with come with a shipping plate on it. You will swap your compressors old 'manifold/plate' onto the new compressor. The compressor should come with a new seal....or its acceptable to use the seal under the shipping plate.

Got it

First time seeing a shipping plate with an actual fitting on it

I usually get a zinc plated flat plate