- Thread starter
- #61
Thanks for the input on this BTW! This has been really helpful!
In tank fuel pump???
- Thread starter chicago
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simply put, as close to the tank as possible...and as close to below the bottom as you can get it...based on your pic, I'd locate the pump near the E-brake area, should be below the tank level and close to the pickup point that way.
Walbro's re-open when wet...flop from one side to the other, and the appropriate pickup does the work. I battled spending the $$, but am happy I did.
Walbro's re-open when wet...flop from one side to the other, and the appropriate pickup does the work. I battled spending the $$, but am happy I did.
They make a couple of models. One has a bleed hole in it so that it can't stay shut. If you use one, then since they're all plumbed together, they all open back up. Of course, it could also suck a bubble through that hole but only a small one. I got one and put in the back where it's more likely to remain under the fuel.
If you're going to put a sump along the rear edge, why not fix the fuel pump under the fuel cell right in front of the sump? At least if it's above the drive shaft and the traction bar, it's pretty heavily protected from crush injury. You could in-line a pre-filter and then go right to the pump.
If you're going to put a sump along the rear edge, why not fix the fuel pump under the fuel cell right in front of the sump? At least if it's above the drive shaft and the traction bar, it's pretty heavily protected from crush injury. You could in-line a pre-filter and then go right to the pump.
- Thread starter
- #64
This is what I was considering too. As I AM the builder of the tank, I can very easily make some tabs OFF of the tank for the pump to sit, like off of the side of the sump on the BOTTOM of the tank?
Im probably putting waaaaay more thought into this whole thing than needs to be, but...that's just how I am.
Going back to the question posted earlier...Are in tank pumps NOT as sensitive to running dry as the in lines? If not, why?
- Thread starter
- #65
So then that was "net tales" being told then re. the walbro...
I dont think i'd have a need for them as Ill have the sump built in, right?
Still chewing on this as far as which direction I wanna take this. It pretty definitive once I decide on a direction. If I begin with the in line pump, Im pretty screwed if I wanna change it down the road and vice versa as it would ALL include ME welding on a tank that had fuel in it. NOT what I wanna do AT ALL!
- Thread starter
- #66
Woody,
One more question for you...
How much (aprox.) was your system NOT including the fittings, just the filter(s) and pump.
For that matter, Bellydoc, chop shop etc. same question.
The stock GM pump, Ive seen for 150-200 dep. on brand and where bought from...spendy yes, but NOT that much more than some of the in line pumps Ive looked at. IIRC the airtex pump that Howell sells was about 165, so the cost savings SEEMINGLY isnt all that much.
The depth of MY tank, Id be better off with using the 01' chevy tahoe pump as its a bit shorter than the pick up pumps.
One more question for you...
How much (aprox.) was your system NOT including the fittings, just the filter(s) and pump.
For that matter, Bellydoc, chop shop etc. same question.
The stock GM pump, Ive seen for 150-200 dep. on brand and where bought from...spendy yes, but NOT that much more than some of the in line pumps Ive looked at. IIRC the airtex pump that Howell sells was about 165, so the cost savings SEEMINGLY isnt all that much.
The depth of MY tank, Id be better off with using the 01' chevy tahoe pump as its a bit shorter than the pick up pumps.
honestly, it's been so long since I did the project, I've forgotten the costs....
and more honestly, I'm not sure I WANT to remember....(as the 40 sits on 3 flat tires, buried in a snowbank...)
and more honestly, I'm not sure I WANT to remember....(as the 40 sits on 3 flat tires, buried in a snowbank...)
Donno truly, but, with a return system you always dump the returned fuel back on to the pump. With any sort of baffle system, you'll pretty much always have fuel (unless you completly run out). So there is less of a chance of sucking air.
Those walboro pickups are nice tho..
I think you just need to go with the system that is the easyest to make. If it doesn't work in reality you can make a new tank which will probably be totaly different from what you are thinking of now. If the more difficult system doesn't work you will regret the dicision more than the other way round. Hope this makes sence.
Hope this makes sence.
- Thread starter
- #70
I think you just need to go with the system that is the easyest to make. If it doesn't work in reality you can make a new tank which will probably be totaly different from what you are thinking of now. If the more difficult system doesn't work you will regret the dicision more than the other way round.
Yeah...all that is left is to make the decision and go with it. There is more than enough info here to make a well informed decision. Both have their advantages and draw backs.
On the one hand, the stock in tank system is pre set for the pick up and return, its matched to the motor (for the most part) and is pre wired for the harness and stands a better chance (in general) for long term reliability. Down side is...less sump volume, its MARGINALLY more expensive and the location on the TOP of the tank is less than ideal.
The in line...
Seems to me that its a bit less expensive, and easier to service and I can build a large sump reserve and a BIT more fuel capacity. The down sides of this are...its exposed, so its more "at risk" of damage, seems to be a bit more fragile in terms of its life expectancy, though the pump cost is LESS, it will require MORE fittings which is more money and more welding, and Ill also need to make a bracket on the side of the tank for it.
Listing it out like that...
I think that at least picking up a stock pump and playing with it for a bit is worth a try. If I have it IN HAND, I can get real time dimensions and see what I come up with. For me, I think itll be the BEST option.
Ill keep you all posted.
My tank is very simple.
An old 15 gallon keg.
Weld a sump on the bottom. The hole in the bottom of the keg that feeds the sump is only an inch around so the fuel in the sump cant slosh back out.
The gauge I have is clear hose so I have no electrical or moving parts inside my fuel tank. You can see the unibit pointing at the fuel level in the hose in the pic.
Since these pics I have added efi and the return line is plumbed to a T at the top of my sight gauge so the returned fuel bubbles down the gauge when running and looks like its brewing beer. Kinda like the old jukeboxes have bubble strips on them.
An old 15 gallon keg.
Weld a sump on the bottom. The hole in the bottom of the keg that feeds the sump is only an inch around so the fuel in the sump cant slosh back out.
The gauge I have is clear hose so I have no electrical or moving parts inside my fuel tank. You can see the unibit pointing at the fuel level in the hose in the pic.
Since these pics I have added efi and the return line is plumbed to a T at the top of my sight gauge so the returned fuel bubbles down the gauge when running and looks like its brewing beer. Kinda like the old jukeboxes have bubble strips on them.
- Thread starter
- #73
current pics
one... The sumps outlet/fuel inlett line for outgoing fuel with a shutoff valve.
two... the return line plumbed into a tee on the top of my clear fuel gauge.
three... Hmmmm bootleg brewin when shes running!
MUST SAY...That is pretty damn cool. I absolutely LOVE the "site glass" fuel gauge. PERFECT! Nice and simple!
Thanks for posting those up!
Unfortunately, I spent top dollar on everything. From the fuel cell to the fuel injectors and back, I'm pretty sure I spent well over 1200 bucks.
Jaz 16 gallon cell
Jaz remote fill kit
Jaz fuel level sender
Walbro pickups
submersible hoses
in-tank T fittings
some foam blocks
extra through-hull fitting for the breather
3 AN double female elbows
2 1/2" shut-off valves with 4 AN-6 adapters
Aeromotive 100 micron pre-filter with shutoff valve
Aeromotive billet aluminum clamp for the pre-filter
Aeromotive 700 hp fuel pump with AN-8 and AN-6 o-ring adapters
Aeromotive fuel pump clamping bracket kit with rubber isolators
Aeromotive 10 micron post filter with 2 AN-6 o-ring adapters
Aeromotive billet aluminum clamp for the post filter
Aeromotive billet aluminum Y fitting with 3 AN-6 o-ring adapters
Aeromotive flow-through fuel rails with 4 AN-6 o-ring adapters
Aeromotive fuel regulator with oil filled pressure gauge and 3 AN-6 NPT adapters
1 double female AN-6
13 AN-6 hose ends (straights, elbows, 45's)
2 AN-8 hose ends (elbows)
Catch can for the breather
Filter element for the catch can
Bleed valve for the catch can
20+ feet of 3/8" Aeroquip hose
1 foot of 1/2" hose
various hose mounts
Other than wires and the fuel gauge which I consider part of the dashboard and wiring phase, I think that's my whole fuel system. I'm not certain about exact cost because I was dumping money pretty fast by the time I got to plumbing and wiring. Small parts really start to add up, and the big ones I chose were kinda trick hot rod type parts. I plumbed the fuel and oil systems at the same time, along with the air and the brake lines. There were lots of trips to the Parker store, and several re-do's. I was so close to being done that I could taste it, and I was blowing through money like a crack addict.
Jaz 16 gallon cell
Jaz remote fill kit
Jaz fuel level sender
Walbro pickups
submersible hoses
in-tank T fittings
some foam blocks
extra through-hull fitting for the breather
3 AN double female elbows
2 1/2" shut-off valves with 4 AN-6 adapters
Aeromotive 100 micron pre-filter with shutoff valve
Aeromotive billet aluminum clamp for the pre-filter
Aeromotive 700 hp fuel pump with AN-8 and AN-6 o-ring adapters
Aeromotive fuel pump clamping bracket kit with rubber isolators
Aeromotive 10 micron post filter with 2 AN-6 o-ring adapters
Aeromotive billet aluminum clamp for the post filter
Aeromotive billet aluminum Y fitting with 3 AN-6 o-ring adapters
Aeromotive flow-through fuel rails with 4 AN-6 o-ring adapters
Aeromotive fuel regulator with oil filled pressure gauge and 3 AN-6 NPT adapters
1 double female AN-6
13 AN-6 hose ends (straights, elbows, 45's)
2 AN-8 hose ends (elbows)
Catch can for the breather
Filter element for the catch can
Bleed valve for the catch can
20+ feet of 3/8" Aeroquip hose
1 foot of 1/2" hose
various hose mounts
Other than wires and the fuel gauge which I consider part of the dashboard and wiring phase, I think that's my whole fuel system. I'm not certain about exact cost because I was dumping money pretty fast by the time I got to plumbing and wiring. Small parts really start to add up, and the big ones I chose were kinda trick hot rod type parts. I plumbed the fuel and oil systems at the same time, along with the air and the brake lines. There were lots of trips to the Parker store, and several re-do's. I was so close to being done that I could taste it, and I was blowing through money like a crack addict.
The foam used in fuel cells is bad juju.
The fuel we have has ingredients that eat the foam into bits.
Here is a pic of the spring out of a airtex2000 inline pump that was used with foam in the cell and no prefilter. The internal spring was jammed full of the deteriorated foam.
I removed it for him and it was full of the stuff all in crumbles. I have seen several filter/intake related problems because of crumbling foam.
- Thread starter
- #77
WOW!!! That is a hell of a list my friend.
There was a fever pitch in your build thread before you started it up and did the test run around the block in your hood. Im thinking that Ill be in the same mode as the plumbing and wiring will be essentially the LAST items on the agenda. Once I hit that point, I may be in the same frame of mind.
I ordered the airtex IN TANK pump yesterday from summit. Found it on rock auto for 147 bucks, summit had it listed at 199...they matched the price for me (begrudgingly). Apparently rock auto sells it for less that summit can get it for.
Thought that was a SCORE on my behalf. I opted to go with the 01 chevy tahoe pump as it will fit my tank better. Fully extended its 12 in, and my tank depth is 8 in, so that will give me approx. 4 in sump for it to sit in.Ill post up HERE how it goes.
I've heard the same issues with foam in fuel cells...I've also been told that foam that stays soaked in fuel doesn't deteriorate...ie: keep your cell full(ish) when stored. I've read all the info...I still run foam on the bottom layer, and haven't had an issue SINCE I started storing with at least a 1/2 full tank...
Additionally, avoid anything with ethanol in it...deteriorates the foam and lots more...unfortunately, this usually means running the high octane stuff, but for a trail rig/toy, it's not as big a hit on the pocketbook as as a daily driver would be...
Additionally, avoid anything with ethanol in it...deteriorates the foam and lots more...unfortunately, this usually means running the high octane stuff, but for a trail rig/toy, it's not as big a hit on the pocketbook as as a daily driver would be...
I think you will be happy with this arrangement.
- Thread starter
- #80
So with the in tank pump, how important is a sump??? Is it AS imperative as if one were to run the in line?
I got my fuel pump, and its a bit shallower than I originally thought....It measures 9 5/8 in deep, and my tank is 8 in, only allowing 1 5/8 deep sump. The tank will be pitched down toward the front and the sump will sit about in the middle of the tank.
Should I get the deeper pick up truck, pump to get more sump reserve in exchange for this one, or will this be okay? Im thinking it will be OKAY...The biggest issue with the truck pump is Im more than likely have to cut the depth rails apart...dont really wanna do that if I dont have to.
Any opinons/ comments.
I got my fuel pump, and its a bit shallower than I originally thought....It measures 9 5/8 in deep, and my tank is 8 in, only allowing 1 5/8 deep sump. The tank will be pitched down toward the front and the sump will sit about in the middle of the tank.
Should I get the deeper pick up truck, pump to get more sump reserve in exchange for this one, or will this be okay? Im thinking it will be OKAY...The biggest issue with the truck pump is Im more than likely have to cut the depth rails apart...dont really wanna do that if I dont have to.
Any opinons/ comments.