How to slow down the 80 from rocking so much while wheeling - body control (1 Viewer)

[alia176]

I'm sure this topic has been beaten to death but doing a search on such yields gazillion hits so I'm hoping this title may catch future searchers.

Body control while wheeling is a big deal to me and dropping big $$$ on properly valves shocks is worth it. I was out camping at the Dollhouse (inside the Maze) last weekend and tried to be more aware of what my 80 body is doing.

Ironman4x4 foam cell PRO shocks on all fours
Dobinsons 3" linear rate springs
Whiteline front+rear sway bars - front disconnected.
315s load range E tires
approx weight 7k lbs, fairly evenly balanced.
Full time wheeling rig, weight never changes.

What I noticed is that my body doesn't settle down quickly enough for my taste after traversing uneven terrain. I know, this is HIGHLY subjective but I'd like a tad less jarring motion for the occupants. This came to light when my GF, who is in the medical world, mentioned to me that she's tightening her core while we drove all day. Doing this prevents her body from getting slapped around inside the cab. I'm holding on to the wheel with the right hand, and the left hand grabs the A pillar handle.

Granted, I was leading a group of nine rigs with a super newb behind me in a Rubicon Recon and was trying to keep a "brisk" pace. He wasn't able to keep up with me so the group just got slower and slower. We arrived at DH around 8pm, beat ass tired and the stupid crazy winds didn't help matters any.

These shocks are FAT and full of foam so I'm sure they're doing their job and not cavitating due to overheated oil. Their temps were around 100deg F, which isn't hot to me. I know, I need either jounce shocks or Timbren bump stops on all four due to the 'OH s***' whoopdydoos that inevitably happens while out wheeling.

I know that Rebound valving is critical when it comes to body attitude. Also, a super heated shock oil promotes shock fading as the day wears on which I *don't* think is happening in my case. Again, the front sway bar was DISCONNECTED on this trip.

Let me know your thoughts and let's try not to bash vendors!

Thanks.

 

[YMT]

From the sounds of it, your "brisk"pace may have been the biggest contributing factor.

Just curious about the following:
Were you aired down? Gear mounted on roof? Did you pack heavy cargo inside low, or high? I understand you said you had it fairly balanced, but curious if that was front-to-back and side-to-side, or what.

I'm sure others will provide better info than I can regarding shock/coil tech, but one suggestion I have is adding airbags inside the coils.

 

[bhsdriller]

slow down or better lines usually work

 

[BlueCruiser84]

I’m with you. Last wheeling trip drive me insane. The trip before I had taken a stock height IFS 4runner with a 4.7:1 Tcase and my 80 beat me to death compared to that.

Downhill control was terrible. I have new dobinson shocks - nothing fancy - and my 80 is as light as they come with a full body. Side to side jerkiness and the on the brakes/hit an obstacle/tap the throttle/ wind up torque converter/ “bump” over obstacle/hit the brake/ repeat dance was absolutely maddening. The constant jerking forward/backward followed by the wallowing side to side is very uncomfortable for a day of wheeling. I’ve got 5.29s and 37s with case gears ready to go in. If the 3:1 Tcase gears don’t add the control I’m looking for the 80 will be retired to kid hauling - which is what they were built for anyway

All this to say, I feel your pain. Short of chopping the roof and Losing a bunch of weight I’m not sure what the answer is. I’ve got Ironman 2.5” heavy springs out back. Maybe they aren’t cutting it.

 

[alia176]

slow down or better lines usually work

No, I won't slow down and my lines are good. I'll throw technology and money at this in order to solve it.

A lot of this is in 4hi and we need to zoom to the next obstacles, rinse and repeat! High desert wheeling consist of slow crawling then miles of smooth dirt roads until the next set of obstacles. High speed driving is just part of the game we play.

 

[alia176]

From the sounds of it, your "brisk"pace may have been the biggest contributing factor.

Just curious about the following:
Were you aired down? Gear mounted on roof? Did you pack heavy cargo inside low, or high? I understand you said you had it fairly balanced, but curious if that was front-to-back and side-to-side, or what.

I'm sure others will provide better info than I can regarding shock/coil tech, but one suggestion I have is adding airbags inside the coils.

Front to back balance is quite good on my 80. I updated the first post with a pic of the 80 and it has the usual crap on the top and inside.

Air bags inside the coils increase the load carrying capacity while screwing up the shocks' valving due to additional spring rate. I don't have a load carrying problem. I think I have body motion problem.

 

[alia176]

I’m with you. Last wheeling trip drive me insane. The trip before I had taken a stock height IFS 4runner with a 4.7:1 Tcase and my 80 beat me to death compared to that.

Downhill control was terrible. I have new dobinson shocks - nothing fancy - and my 80 is as light as they come with a full body. Side to side jerkiness and the on the brakes/hit an obstacle/tap the throttle/ wind up torque converter/ “bump” over obstacle/hit the brake/ repeat dance was absolutely maddening. The constant jerking forward/backward followed by the wallowing side to side is very uncomfortable for a day of wheeling. I’ve got 5.29s and 37s with case gears ready to go in. If the 3:1 Tcase gears don’t add the control I’m looking for the 80 will be retired to kid hauling - which is what they were built for anyway

All this to say, I feel your pain. Short of chopping the roof and Losing a bunch of weight I’m not sure what the answer is. I’ve got Ironman 2.5” heavy springs out back. Maybe they aren’t cutting it.

Yeah, you know what I'm talking about but I'm not going to be any lighter so this needs to be dealt with the correct valved shocks and/or jounce shocks. I have 3:1 tcase with 4.56s so my speed control is good.

Like you said, it's tiring to be controlling the side to side jerkiness of the body on an eight hour day on the trail.

 

[AussieHJCruza]

Sounds to me like a set of decent shocks with proper valving is in order. Ironman seem to have quite the following in the US but here they're firmly in the bargain basement.

Do you run pressure in the airbags all the time for load carrying reasons?

 

[MoJ]

I’m with you. Last wheeling trip drive me insane. The trip before I had taken a stock height IFS 4runner with a 4.7:1 Tcase and my 80 beat me to death compared to that.

Downhill control was terrible. I have new dobinson shocks - nothing fancy - and my 80 is as light as they come with a full body. Side to side jerkiness and the on the brakes/hit an obstacle/tap the throttle/ wind up torque converter/ “bump” over obstacle/hit the brake/ repeat dance was absolutely maddening. The constant jerking forward/backward followed by the wallowing side to side is very uncomfortable for a day of wheeling. I’ve got 5.29s and 37s with case gears ready to go in. If the 3:1 Tcase gears don’t add the control I’m looking for the 80 will be retired to kid hauling - which is what they were built for anyway

All this to say, I feel your pain. Short of chopping the roof and Losing a bunch of weight I’m not sure what the answer is. I’ve got Ironman 2.5” heavy springs out back. Maybe they aren’t cutting it.

Minor data point…I had a blown Dob twin tube shock failure after 25k miles with a handful of moderate but week-long wheeling trips. I don’t think it’s a Dob-exclusive failure as most twin tubes are pretty much the same.

 

[Squeegee]

Sounds to me like a set of decent shocks with proper valving is in order. Ironman seem to have quite the following in the US but here they're firmly in the bargain basement.

Do you run pressure in the airbags all the time for load carrying reasons?

I second this. Invest in a better shock. I run tapered coils and plain old dobinson twin tubes. Even with a tent on top I don’t really get much sway coming down off rocks. Invest in a set of 7100s and I’m sure you’ll be happy. And if not, get them valved. If you’re not happy then, burn the car down and call it a day.

 

[alia176]

I second this. Invest in a better shock. I run tapered coils and plain old dobinson twin tubes. Even with a tent on top I don’t really get much sway coming down off rocks. Invest in a set of 7100s and I’m sure you’ll be happy. And if not, get them valved. If you’re not happy then, burn the car down and call it a day.

I used to have 7100 remote resi shocks that I've revalved and adjusted them quite a bit but not having a shock dyno, I never did get them dialed in to my satisfaction. Adjusting them is quite easy and I have a stunning collection of valve shims. But, you need experience in this arena which I don't have much of and sending them out to Poway, CA for every iteration is just plain waste of money.

 

[Delta VS]

I'm sure this topic has been beaten to death but doing a search on such yields gazillion hits so I'm hoping this title may catch future searchers.

Body control while wheeling is a big deal to me and dropping big $$$ on properly valves shocks is worth it. I was out camping at the Dollhouse (inside the Maze) last weekend and tried to be more aware of what my 80 body is doing.

Ironman4x4 foam cell shocks on all fours
Dobinsons 3" linear rate springs
Whiteline front+rear sway bars - front disconnected.
315s load range E tires
approx weight 7k lbs, fairly evenly balanced.
Full time wheeling rig, weight never changes.

What I noticed is that my body doesn't settle down quickly enough for my taste after traversing uneven terrain. I know, this is HIGHLY subjective but I'd like a tad less jarring motion for the occupants. This came to light when my GF, who is in the medical world, mentioned to me that she's tightening her core while we drove all day. Doing this prevents her body from getting slapped around inside the cab. I'm holding on to the wheel with the right hand, and the left hand grabs the A pillar handle.

Granted, I was leading a group of nine rigs with a super newb behind me in a Rubicon Recon and was trying to keep a "brisk" pace. He wasn't able to keep up with me so the group just got slower and slower. We arrived at DH around 8pm, beat ass tired and the stupid crazy winds didn't help matters any.

These shocks are FAT and full of foam so I'm sure they're doing their job and not cavitating due to overheated oil. Their temps were around 100deg F, which isn't hot to me. I know, I need either jounce shocks or Timbren bump stops on all four due to the 'OH s***' whoopdydoos that inevitably happens while out wheeling.

I know that Rebound valving is critical when it comes to body attitude. Also, a super heated shock oil promotes shock fading as the day wears on which I *don't* think is happening in my case. Again, the front sway bar was DISCONNECTED on this trip.

Let me know your thoughts and let's try not to push one vendor over the other, if possible.

Thanks.

View attachment 2687735

“Doesn’t settle down quickly enough”

As in the you’re compressing shocks on one side of the vehicle, then the other? And maybe back once more? You say you’ve dealt with tuning shocks before, but don’t want to send out for tuning, are Dobinsons MRR/A shocks in the budget? You can adjust both compression and rebound with those, to get dialed in nicely without having to remove from vehicle.

 

[Squeegee]

I used to have 7100 remote resi shocks that I've revalved and adjusted them quite a bit but not having a shock dyno, I never did get them dialed in to my satisfaction. Adjusting them is quite easy and I have a stunning collection of valve shims. But, you need experience in this arena which I don't have much of and sending them out to Poway, CA for every iteration is just plain waste of money.

Is slinky back in business? Sounds like they have their set up dialed and it might be your best bet then

OR, run an antirock in the front

 

[alia176]

“Doesn’t settle down quickly enough”

As in the you’re compressing shocks on one side of the vehicle, then the other? And maybe back once more? You say you’ve dealt with tuning shocks before, but don’t want to send out for tuning, are Dobinsons MRR/A shocks in the budget? You can adjust both compression and rebound with those, to get dialed in nicely without having to remove from vehicle.

Yeah, that sounds about right.

I don't know if the Dobinsons MR/R are in the budget but I need to study up on them. While I like the sound of adjusting the valving, they do sound complex and I'm guessing they need to be rebuilt after a while? I prefer to treat shocks as consumables and prefer not to deal with them.

Do the MRR/A shocks have a long track record in the USA or anywhere else?

 

[Delta VS]

Yeah, that sounds about right.

I don't know if the Dobinsons MR/R are in the budget but I need to study up on them. While I like the sound of adjusting the valving, they do sound complex and I'm guessing they need to be rebuilt after a while? I prefer to treat shocks as consumables and prefer not to deal with them.

Do the MRR/A shocks have a long track record in the USA or anywhere else?

Not in the US, they were only brought over a little over a year ago or so? But they’ve been on the market elsewhere for a while I believe.

Not going to be adjusting the valving necessarily, pretty sure you’re adjusting the bypass settings. The Dobs have the most adjustability of what’s on the market currently though, with both high and low speed (of the shaft) compression and overall rebound. Definitely NOT a complex thing with these shocks, there are just two external knobs (compression) and one slotted screw (at the bottom of the shaft, for rebound) that you would be messing with.

I would be very surprised if you can find the performance you’re looking for from a disposable shock, but would be glad to hear if you do.

All the remote reservoir shocks are going to require rebuilding, and should be looked at as a “buy once cry once” purchase, but it sounds like you’re aware of this.

 

[alia176]

Not in the US, they were only brought over a little over a year ago or so? But they’ve been on the market elsewhere for a while I believe.

Not going to be adjusting the valving necessarily, pretty sure you’re adjusting the bypass settings. The Dobs have the most adjustability of what’s on the market currently though, with both high and low speed (of the shaft) compression and overall rebound. Definitely NOT a complex thing with these shocks, there are just two external knobs (compression) and one slotted screw (at the bottom of the shaft, for rebound) that you would be messing with.

I would be very surprised if you can find the performance you’re looking for from a disposable shock, but would be glad to hear if you do.

All the remote reservoir shocks are going to require rebuilding, and should be looked at as a “buy once cry once” purchase, but it sounds like you’re aware of this.

Good feedback, thanks for that. I agree, good suspension costs and buy once/cry once is the correct attitude to have. I'd love to see some real world feedback from the owners of a heavily laden 80 on these fandangle shocks. They do sound lovely! I have a local buddy with a GX with these shocks but that really may not help me understand.

 

[SNLC]

It is an old Cruiser.

The better the shocks and the more you spend on them the better the result. However, even the most simple high end remote resi shocks requires tuning and adjustments.

I don’t have any of the issues you describe. I can bomb 2ft whoops at 40mph or more no worries in my Cruiser and do every time I go out. I have BP51’s that I have tuned to suit my Cruiser and the type of wheeling I do.

Sounds like your shocks are to stiff and or have to much rebound. Heavy duty coils without heavy duty weight won’t help either.

I have had to long of a shock in an 80 before, a v8 and no sway bars. In the sand dunes I could easily lift a front tire with a full lock turn and giving it the berries. It sucked. So suspension not setup correctly can do funky things like unloading very easily.

Cheers

 

[alia176]

It is an old Cruiser.

The better the shocks and the more you spend on them the better the result. However, even the most simple high end remote resi shocks requires tuning and adjustments.

I don’t have any of the issues you describe. I can bomb 2ft whoops at 40mph or more no worries in my Cruiser and do every time I go out. I have BP51’s that I have tuned to suit my Cruiser and the type of wheeling I do.

Sounds like your shocks are to stiff and or have to much rebound. Heavy duty coils without heavy duty weight won’t help either.

I have had to long of a shock in an 80 before, a v8 and no sway bars. In the sand dunes I could easily lift a front tire with a full lock turn and giving it the berries. It sucked. So suspension not setup correctly can do funky things like unloading very easily.

Cheers

You're right, it is an old cruiser but that has nothing to do with body movements. An old cruiser with all new bushings, properly valved shocks with the correct load carrying springs can be all made to operate within the parameters. Suspension is suspension, age is only relevant when you're trying to make old, dilapidated parts perform miracles.

I can bomb 2ft whoops at 40mph or more no worries in my Cruiser and do every time I go out.
So, you can bomb on 2ft whoops, which tells me your suspension is dialed in and you're not bending the front axle housing. This tells me you have a good jounce solution. Please tell us all details on your setup and pics or two will go a long way

Heavy duty coils without heavy duty weight won’t help either. - I mentioned on the first post, this is a 7k beast, which I think is pretty much the norm for folks who camp and move daily. What do the kids call it these days - oh yeah, overlanding. Are you thinking that my coils aren't matched to my load?

I have BP51’s that I have tuned to suit my Cruiser and the type of wheeling I do. Please tell us more of this "tuning" process or are you turning a knob on the res? Your sig line has no mention of your specific setup so I'd like to see the info on your lift and the model # shocks you're currently running.

So suspension not setup correctly can do funky things like unloading very easily. I agree with this 100% and this takes time and money. Curious, do the BP51s accomodate a 3" lifted 80? I see BP51s for 2.5" on Slee's site.

Thanks for the input, think there's a lot to learn from your answers.

 

[alia176]

Is slinky back in business? Sounds like they have their set up dialed and it might be your best bet then

OR, run an antirock in the front

Antirock - that's an intriguing idea but it won't help me with the valving. I do wonder if the Slinky shocks are the cat's meow but the thought of dealing with heim eyes and rebuilding them once a year or every other year doesn't appeal to me. Unfortunately, I am setup for rebuilding shocks from the 7100 days but I was hoping to not go that route. I want maint free suspension components, which is why I despise Johnny joints, heims, uniballs and all that offroad racing stuff. They don't belong on a street driver, IMHO. I just wanna beat on my junk.

 

[Outsane]

Also you can try to lower your cg.

If you can move any weight lower it will help.