How much boost can 1HZ-T handle? (3 Viewers)

[arnott1t]

So would the pyro be better places on those exhaust ports? Be easy enough to drill and tap the manifold there. Maybe both and do a comparison.

1hz is home and gturbo secured. Hoping my
Original intercooler will still work. It's out if a Volvo or something. Seemed to work on the old 2h

 

[Dougal]

So would the pyro be better places on those exhaust ports? Be easy enough to drill and tap the manifold there. Maybe both and do a comparison.

1hz is home and gturbo secured. Hoping my
Original intercooler will still work. It's out if a Volvo or something. Seemed to work on the old 2h

If you want to install one for each cylinder, then go ahead. The best place for a single as at the turbo entry so it reads the average of all cylinders.

 

[arnott1t]

That's what I figured. I guess cyl 1 and 6 would be worst case since they are at a disadvantage air wise. But the average is likely good to use.

Has anyone found a good afr gauge that could be used or does anyone have recommendations? Are the gasser ones the same as the diesel ones?

 

[Dougal]

That's what I figured. I guess cyl 1 and 6 would be worst case since they are at a disadvantage air wise. But the average is likely good to use.

Has anyone found a good afr gauge that could be used or does anyone have recommendations? Are the gasser ones the same as the diesel ones?

Innovate do several with a range suitable for diesel.

 

[ForealBoreal]

So what is the best to truly tune off: AFR or Pre turbo EGT.

Say you tuned to 1200f pre turbo and got an afr of 18:1

Even say 1100f and 18:1. Is that 18:1 truely matter, the exhaust will be a bit visually dirtier than 20:1 or 22.1

My grunter is good to 20lbs of boost and I plan on putting it to wastegate to 20lbs and tuning to a max of 1200 deg F. Is that truly enough and safe?

Someone please explain this a bit better. There is this debate on what one to tune off of. In my eyes if it caps off at 1200f you should be safe from melting a piston....

 

[Dougal]

So what is the best to truly tune off: AFR or Pre turbo EGT.

Say you tuned to 1200f pre turbo and got an afr of 18:1

Even say 1100f and 18:1. Is that 18:1 truely matter, the exhaust will be a bit visually dirtier than 20:1 or 22.1

My grunter is good to 20lbs of boost and I plan on putting it to wastegate to 20lbs and tuning to a max of 1200 deg F. Is that truly enough and safe?

Someone please explain this a bit better. There is this debate on what one to tune off of. In my eyes if it caps off at 1200f you should be safe from melting a piston....

A/F and EGT need to agree or you have a measurement problem.

1200F would be 20+, could be 22+ depending on intercooling, timing etc, nowhere near 18:1.

If you get a true reading, then yes that'll be fine at 1200F. If you have a short probe, the probe in a cold spot or don't reach a steady temp in testing then the 1200F is meaningless.

 

[TheBigBoy]

Dougal, your math isn't correct. I would love to agree with you, and find a working algorithm. But the results don't fit. When we tune, we tune to "mid range" usually the afr's at 22-2400rpm. In real life you wouldn't drive a HZ to 4000rpm. Which is the quoted 19.5:1. Cylinder temps are under 600'c for post egt's of 420'c. We have measured this, but the info is useless without everything else being measured simultaneously. Which is what we will do next project. Measuring a stock HZ as it comes in the door, to a completed and safe 1HZ-T.

Here is the owners probe. Its protrudes deep into the airstream aswell.

 

[Dougal]

Dougal, your math isn't correct.

Feel free to find and correct the errors.

I would love to agree with you, and find a working algorithm. But the results don't fit. When we tune, we tune to "mid range" usually the afr's at 22-2400rpm. In real life you wouldn't drive a HZ to 4000rpm. Which is the quoted 19.5:1. Cylinder temps are under 600'c for post egt's of 420'c.

For a 180C drop across the turbine at 2,400rpm and 34psi you are pulling ~37kw of heat out of the turbine.
This is simple maths, P = m*Cp*deltaT.
But 37kw of turbine power on a 4.2L engine at 2,400rpm would produce only 30psi boost.

It would take 80% intercooling to pull EGT down to just below 650C. At which point your intercooler has to shed ~30kw of heat.
This confirms the turbines are the size I expected. All the numbers line up. There is about 15% wastegate flow and crank power is about 200hp.

So where is the missing 50C in the EGT? Between 650C and 600C?
It's going out the cooling system as extra heat lost during compression and combustion. This is the inefficiency of the indirect injection design.

Here is the owners probe. Its protrudes deep into the airstream aswell.
http://s467.photobucket.com/user/Ma...7-4C7F-A1E3-7E4E93AEC138_zps0hy86dge.jpg.html

Looks like plenty of access to put it pre-turbo.

 

[TheBigBoy]

Its 23psi. Your thinking of the wrong truck.
Here's the egt vid.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9oYix6-ncRA

 

[Dougal]

Its 23psi. Your thinking if the wrong truck.
Here's the egt vid.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9oYix6-ncRA

You do keep throwing different examples into different threads. It's hard to keep up.

I can't read the gauge face on that video. You also cannot get true EGT readings off a dyno pull or acceleration run. It takes time to heat-soak the manifold and show the true temps.
Run it uphill for a minute or two and see what it reads. You've given it a whole 6 seconds.

 

[ForealBoreal]

You do keep throwing different examples into different threads. It's hard to keep up.

I can't read the gauge face on that video. You also cannot get true EGT readings off a dyno pull or acceleration run. It takes time to heat-soak the manifold and show the true temps.

I agree with it takes time to heat soak and everything.
That was a very short run as EGTs at least with my experience creep up a bit from their supposed maximum. ~50-100 degrees through experience from the big hill pulls I have done really trying to giver. I would love to see the dyno run go on longer personally...

Though dougal he is running an intercooler set up that is proven at 78% efficient at full heat soak. So really that is pretty good in my eyes and I doubt you would get better efficiency out of any other intercooler....

 

[TheBigBoy]

There's only 1 example here. And it seems your just not listening. We have maxed egt's for duration, 5th gear, full load = 420'c. The only part I'm disagreeing with is the post temps. We have measure it a few times. The owner isn't keen on more ports on his new manifold, although I did ask. To do it, I would have to use my manifold and that's a lot of work. The other factors that I'm sure will be thrown up is gauge brand and quality etc. So I'm happy to leave it until our complete innovate data logger arrives. And we start the next HZ project.

 

[Dougal]

Though dougal he is running an intercooler set up that is proven at 78% efficient at full heat soak. So really that is pretty good in my eyes and I doubt you would get better efficiency out of any other intercooler....

The intercooler is only the intake side. It's the exhaust manifold that has to heat-soak to get the right temp reading.

If I run up a hill at full load my Isuzu eventually hits 750C and stays there.
If I do a 0-100km/h run on my Isuzu it's running just as hot and rich in the cylinders, but the EGT reads colder by at least 150C.

That 0-100 run takes a whole lot longer than 6 seconds.

We need some reality with these claimed temps. 6 seconds of post turbo is complete horse s***.

 

[TheBigBoy]

Bernie ran his intercooler over the weekend towing. 18psi, 40'c ambient, towing 2 tonnes up cunninghams gap (hour or so of up hill). Pre IC temps 132'c, post IC temps 53'c. I'll add post egt temps - 320'c.

 

[TheBigBoy]

Geeez dougal, get a hold of it. That's just to show how it reacts for those afr's. Try testing on HZ instead of an Isuzu. 750'c is horse ****.

 

[Dougal]

Geeez dougal, get a hold of it. That's just to show how it reacts for those afr's. Try testing on HZ instead of an Isuzu. 750'c is horse ****.

You haven't shown anything but thermal lag. Get back to us when you've got the probe in the right place and can load it for a minute or more to get a true reading.

Engine choice doesn't change measurement location or techniques.

 

[TheBigBoy]

The vid was not used to justify anything. It's just something I had to go with the dyno sheet.
For 420 post egt's, I've got 600 or less post. And you have 750. Care for a friendly wager ?

 

[Dougal]

The vid was not used to justify anything. It's just something I had to go with the dyno sheet.
For 420 post egt's, I've got 600 or less post. And you have 750. Care for a friendly wager ?

Tell him e's dreamin.

You're not even understanding what I've written so far.

 

[Dougal]

Oh look, another post from Crushers with nothing but personal attacks.

In real life I drive all hills at max boost and max EGT. For me currently this is 20psi and 750C. Been doing it for a long time now, looked at the pistons last week and they're fine.

Every commercial truck, every production diesel car does exactly the same thing. If your engine can't handle max boost and max EGT sustained then you've either got a weak engine or a bad tune.

Sometimes both.

 

[crushers]

so once again for the third time, what is the brand of EGT gauge that has the "too short" probe?