Help me diagnose: Coolant in #2 cylinder (1 Viewer)

[CuCruiser]

Patient presented with "smoke" at startups, after changing to a new oil. Was using valvoline 10w30 switched to Valvoline Premium Blue 15w40. On pressurizing cylinder #2 to change valve stem seal, I observed bubbles in coolant reservoir.

For a history, Engine has 161k miles, compression OK not great. Desmogged and running well. I replaced the head gasket with genuine Toyota this spring, after what appeared to be the original HG failed. I had the head surfaced at a well-recommended local machine shop. Deck appeared to be completely flat, measured with a brand new precision straightedge, and not pitted. Leak was into 4 and 5 at that time.

Head was warped at least .016" end to end. Machine shop took .020" off and said, "see what happens." I would guess that means it had been overheated at some time. Magnafluxed OK.

Some observations that might help. I have heard gurgling in the heater for about a month or so. I assumed (hoped) that it was a loose hose or something but hadn't really looked into it seriously.

Whatever the leak is, it seals itself at operating temperature. It's only in the last half dozen runs that I've seen a worrying amount of smoke/steam. It steams till you get up around 35 mph, and will not steam again until it has sat at idle for a couple minutes. Then once driving it will stop. Kinda why I suspected valve seals.

I pulled the head yesterday and didn't really see a smoking gun. I did find a finger-sized gob of silicone stuck in one of the passages between the block and head. I had removed some free-range silicone doing the previous HG job. Guess I missed some.

So I would be grateful for advice on what may have been the cause, including installation error. In any case, in light of the history, I would guess that the head is not worth messing with again, and needs replacing? Possibly cracked?

Thanks in advance for reading all that and for your replies.

 

[3_puppies]

did you re-torque the head multiple times?

I'm wondering why the valve stem seals weren't done when the head was off and decked?

on the brite side, I'm in Helena and should have a good head and a Toyota gasket.

Paul

 

[Output Shaft]

There's either a crack or the hg seal failed near #2 because either it wasn't retorqued a few times after assembly, or and the head bolts and or block threads were so dirty that insufficient clamping force was applied because of excessive friction. Aka the torque set on the torque wrench clicked off early because of thread fit friction.

Cracks can be very hard to see without magnafluxing. Good machine shops can pressure test the head to check to see if there's a leak. I'd do that, then if the head is ok, replace all the head bolts with nice new clean ones and chase all the head bolt threads in the block with a tap before reassembling it.

Assuming you get to that point, retorque a few times after assembly. Back off 1/4 turn, then torque to spec while engine is hot.

 

[CuCruiser]

I cleaned all bolt threads with a chasing bolt I made. They were all run in to bottoming out pre-assembly and verified that they were turning freely, weren't exuding excess oil, and to make sure that they wouldn't bottom out when the head was on. I also made sure that the index pins wouldn't bottom out. I retorqued at 300 and 3,000 miles post-rebuild. I checked the torque before taking it apart this time and all were still plenty tight. I cleaned both surfaces so well, and did not even touch them bare handed...I mean I read pages and pages and dotted every i I knew of!

I think the machine shop was, how shall we say, cautious, about the job. They asked me how it was running, and when I said good, he said that they wouldn't do the valves. I know they were trying to take it easy on me and seemed like .020 was about the most warped head they had ever seen. Is that a lot? I know people do that all the time for performance. But then of course when you remove warp you wind up with smaller chambers at the ends and bigger at the middle. Also when I put the rockers back on I could tell that they were being flexed. So if this head is going to wear out the valvetrain, I don't want it. I guess what I'm asking is is this head going to be trouble down the road?
I have kicked myself several times for not asking them to do the valves. Not now! But yes, they really needed it. Live and learn.

Thanks OS and Paul, I may take you up on that! But I'll call the machine shop tomorrow and see what they say. I'm in no huge hurry.

 

[CuCruiser]

OK, pressure test is being done. Went over the cylinder head with the man there, found it to be perfectly flat, and asked all my questions. Hopefully find out the results in the next day or two. Cleaned up the deck and went over it again with a straightedge and all looks good, flat and no gouges. Also checked the cam lift here and there for s&its and giggles and that looks good as well.

 

[CuCruiser]

If you guessed cracked, you get a cookie.

Think I'll get a temp gauge.

 

[gregnash]

So where is the crack located? Is it at the leaking valve stem or is the valve cup (or whatever its called) cracked.

 

[CuCruiser]

Not sure yet, going to pick it up today. In a sick way I'm kind of relieved that it wasn't my install of the HG that was bad. If that were the case, I could never relax driving it again.
Just sucks, another 2F part bites the dust.

 

[lel]

Late model heads are known to crack. Mine was at 170k
I put a brand new one from Toyota. Runs perfect now.
Hairline crack

 

[CuCruiser]

@lel Thanls for the reply. Where was yours cracked? Warped?

 

[CuCruiser]

Persons with sensitive constitutions should avert their eyes.

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

Obvious as heck! Piss!

 

[rrv333]

That blows

 

[CuCruiser]

Yeah, I was kind of embarrassed it was so obvious. I think I see it now in before pictures too. Shop took pity on me and only charged for a magflux.
The pitfalls of used cars I guess. Thanks all, I'd be up a creek without you guys.

 

[gregnash]

Question is, now what?! Going to find another head or go for something more devious?

 

[lel]

The crack on my 60 couldn't be seen. They found it by magniflux
I was lucky Toyota still sold them.
Talk to mark in Burbank
He may have a used one
Good luck

 

[gregnash]

Also talk to Georg to see if he has a good one laying around. I was just on the CruiserParts.net website and they seem to have a good, bare head. Bare means it doesn't come with anything, just the head itself, no valves, valvetrain, etc.

 

[CuCruiser]

No I thought about a few different upgrades, but my budget is not very impressive. I want to get the head back on and done right at this point. I've been in touch with Paul (3_puppies) in Helena, about 2 hours from me and a nice drive to boot so we're putting together a deal for a head he has. I still like the 2F and was getting OK mileage about 14 avg. I think many give up on them because when they get them they are basketcases. I thought it was just about perfect for what I want to do with it, so no plans to swap.

The shiite part is I was about to get to the fun stuff, lift, new wheels, bumpers, interior etc. Dad's touring around the SW and I was going to have him drop by the cruiser outfit and pick me up some OME goodness on the way home. Maybe I'll just charge it!

 

[gregnash]

Yeah completely understand about the non-impressive budget. Hence why I am still trying to troubleshoot my idle issues instead of just throwing a trollhole on. Plus I am cheap.

Why not give Jason a call about a Tough Dog suspension? He ain't far from you (assuming).

 

[CuCruiser]

Why not give Jason a call about a Tough Dog suspension? He ain't far from you (assuming).

There's an idea. Is he ready to go public? If he's in Spokane that's another nice drive about 200 miles.

I've been following your idle troubles, hope you get it sorted. I like having the OEM carb and the HAC so as long as it can be fixed I would try to, too.

I found that VDO makes a sender with a warning contact that could light an 'idiot light' at 230F. Thinking about putting one it at the unused bvsv spot. Whaddayathink?