headgasket

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I start the reassembly process tomorrow. Euclid mentioned using Aviation Form-A-Gasket
Sealant Liquid on the new gaskets. I read that it has a 400 degree (F) rating. I fear this would not work for the head. I plan to use it elsewhere, where the tempuratures are not so extreme. Anyone have thoughts on using it on the headgasket?
 
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400 temp rating is fine for sealing around the oil return side of the head. The only place on the gasket that will get hotter is the fire rings, particularly on top of the siamese cylinders.
 
FJ40Jim said:
400 temp rating is fine for sealing around the oil return side of the head. The only place on the gasket that will get hotter is the fire rings, particularly on top of the siamese cylinders.
Click to expand...

Help me out here. Would the oil return side be the bottom (the block) side? What are fire rings and siamese cylinders? Is there a manual that identifies these parts somewhere? Never heard this terminology before.

thanks again for all your help.

barry
 
The oil return side is the RH side of the block, where the oil falls down out of the head through the pushrod holes.

The siamese cylinder area is where the cylinder walls are siamesed together, cast together. The cylinders are not spaced equally in F-series. The are grouped together in 3 gangs of 2. Where the 2 cylinders are close together, they are siamesed, the cylinder walls touch, there is no coolant circulating between. The siamese regions are hotter. The thin head gasket ring is at it's weakest above the siamese area. It is the hottest spot for the gakset, and there is the least amount of material between the combustion chambers.

The fire ring is the metal reinforcement/band around the chambers that keeps the gasket material being exposed to the fire in the combustion chamber.

Jeez, were you people sleeping in engine mechanical 101?:D
 
FJ40Jim said:
The oil return side is the RH side of the block, where the oil falls down out of the head through the pushrod holes.

The siamese cylinder area is where the cylinder walls are siamesed together, cast together. The cylinders are not spaced equally in F-series. The are grouped together in 3 gangs of 2. Where the 2 cylinders are close together, they are siamesed, the cylinder walls touch, there is no coolant circulating between. The siamese regions are hotter. The thin head gasket ring is at it's weakest above the siamese area. It is the hottest spot for the gakset, and there is the least amount of material between the combustion chambers.

The fire ring is the metal reinforcement/band around the chambers that keeps the gasket material being exposed to the fire in the combustion chamber.

Jeez, were you people sleeping in engine mechanical 101?:D
Click to expand...

Sad to say, I never even took the class. Totally new at this.

Your explanation makes sense.

So I'm still a little unsure about distribution of the sealant. Should I just cover the whole head or only the portion on the oil return side?

Also, I think I've removed all the carbonized deposits from the head. The metal looks a little rough in places. Should I be concerned about this? I'm not in a very good position to have the block machined, but I'm concerned that the whole head job not be in vain. I'd rather eat the money, have it towed somewhere, pulled and machined than have to go through this all again.....as fun as it is. Most are telling me just to put it back together. I'm having a hard time with a nagging doubt. Any words of wisdom? Any way to resurface a head in frame?
 
I would put NOTHING on the head gasket. They seal up fine as is.

As far as the block being flat: did you take a long straight edge and check the deck of the block for being flat? If it's within spec there is no reason to do more than clean it well and reassemble. Motors have gone back together with far less care than you are showing your 2F without any issues later! :D A 2F is a pretty forgiving motor. It will tolerate less than perfect and still work just fine for years.

HTH,
Nick
 
Helloooo.......


Surely someone out there in Cruiserville has bolted together a manifold on a 60 before. I broke one bolt head off going too far with it. Can someone puhhhleeeaassee tell me how much to torque the bolts squeezing the heatriser gaskets together?


She's almost back together.
 
When I did this to my old '84 I just pulled them up tight and left it at that. I didn't put a torque wrench on them. I would wait on tightening them until after the manifolds are on the head though. That way the intake and exhaust manifolds can shift as needed to line up with the cylinder head. Just start the bolts and run them up close but not tight. Then remount the combo back on the motor, torque the manifold to head bolts then tighten up the intake to exhaust bolts.

HTH,
Nick
 
So close, oh so close.

I have just one leeeeetle problem.

How do I know whether my engine is on a compression stroke or exhaust stroke?

The timing mark is set at TDC. When I replaced the Distributor I pointed it to the #4 cylinder where it presently sits. I put the valve train back on but don't know if I'm on compression or exhaust. Any way to tell by looking at the rods?

I need to know this before I can adjust the valves.
 
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I may have answered my own question. Is it possible to tell which stroke the engine is on by observing which valve springs are compressed? Can someone confirm this?

I may have another problem. When I adjust the valves it seems #4 will not adjust. It's either too tight or too loose to get a feeler gauge to fit. Is it possible to bend a rocker? I wonder if I could have done this when the engine seized? Just replace one rocker or the whole arm?

arrghh.
 
It is possible to know which top dead center you are on by the order of open and closed valves. Pretty easy to match up which rockers are loose with the pictures in the FSM section on adjusting valves. Loose valves will match up to the one's the FSM says to adjust.

On the rocker that "won't adjust". Is the nut and adjuster screw turning? If yes, look at the bottom of the rocker where it rides on the valve and see if it has a groove worn into it. This will make it difficult to get a feeler gage in to check the adjustment. If you find a groove you can replace just the rocker. Or just trim a feeler gage to fit into the groove, adjust it and run it.

HTH,
Nick
 
It Runs!!!!!!!

Last night around 10:00 with Euclid and mutual friend John Mills present I turned the key on my 60 for the first time since May. After waiting for the fuel to come back up into the carb she spluttered, cranked and began to run. Lots of smoke from all the lubricants and sprays used at various times. This has dissipated some.

We have a definate exhaust leak of uncertain origins and the engine is tending to overheat. I will begin trouble shooting these issues tomorrow. Any tips on the most likely trouble spots?

Many, many thanks to all who contributed, especially to Jim Chenowith without whose advice I would not have made it this far. I am equally indebted to John Mills for sharing extensive 2f knowledge and turning many a bolt for me and to Euclid for wrenching and just being there. There are some stout friends in the Cruiser Community.

Updates to follow. Haven't tried to drive her yet.
 
progress update and new questions

I think I am in the end phase of this. I installed a header today. Desmogged.

In the process of torquing the header/manifold bolts this morning I noticed the following: My FSM says 28-37 ft-lb. The Ellery's Manual says 51 ft-lb for the 17mm bolts and 37 ft-lb for the 14 mm bolts.

I'm confused. At the moment they are all at 28 ft-lb. Should one go with the lower or higher number? Or with the Ellery's specs?

Hilfe!
 
FJ40Jim said:
Make sure your friends cylinder head is a 61040 casting. 61030 or 61031 are open chamber and give very low compression numbers if bolted on to the FJ60 block.
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Oh boy, that is bad for me then, I got a second head to take the time to rebuilt, that is a 61030 and have had it machine shopped and have been prepping it for an install.

The head on the 86 fj60 is a 61040 cast

What does "open chamber" mean exactly.

I can still use it and get my original head done and then swap it again

doug t
 
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The 6103x heads have an open combustion chamber that is used w/ a pop up piston that goes up into the head at TDC.

The 61040 & newer heads are a small combustion chamber that is used w/ a flattop piston that squishes against the bottom of the head.

Installing the open chamber head on a block with the flattop pistons gives a very low compression ratio and less squish. This results in a noticeable decrease in efficiency/performance.
 
FJ40Jim said:
The 6103x heads have an open combustion chamber that is used w/ a pop up piston that goes up into the head at TDC.

The 61040 & newer heads are a small combustion chamber that is used w/ a flattop piston that squishes against the bottom of the head.

Installing the open chamber head on a block with the flattop pistons gives a very low compression ratio and less squish. This results in a noticeable decrease in efficiency/performance.
Click to expand...

so recommendations:

shave the head more?

use until I get my own redone? - use a cheap HG then and swap fast?

sell it? Would any one want it?

What year engines are the 61030 head intended for?

(my FJ60 is a 1986 and looking at my block number 883140 and head number 61040 - I assume that my engine/head are FROM 1986 and are original)

thx

doug t

PS Jim, is my dizzy almost done yet?
 
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My recommendation:
1. Sell 61030 head.
2. Buy a core 61040 head, have it rebuilt.
3. Get all the gaskets & fasteners ordered
4. take a weekend and swap heads.
5. sell your old head to the next 'mudder.
:steer:

Dissy is almost done. Sorry bout the delay.:o
 
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