Future Land Cruiser directions

[studawg]

Not at all. This is pretty close to an exact match of what rumors are for the 300, minus the unibody. As someone who really overlands, the 110 checks all the right boxes except for possibly reliability and definitely parts availability. But the specs are spot on.

I would take a Sienna overlanding before I tried to take a Land Rover. Not joking at all. I wouldn't even think twice about it. Reliability is the very first box that must be checked in my book. There is no way that thing will be reliable. And if its not reliable, none of the other boxes matter. It shouldn't even be called a Defender.

Id take a 20 year old 100 with 250k miles and no idea of its prior service history overlanding before I took that "Defender" to soccer practice.

A Suburban, Excursion a VW Golf, a Pontiac Aztec, a Yugo, I can think of literally 100s of vehicles that I would take on a trip before I made the epicly stupid decision of trying to take that 6000 pound box of complete junk on any sort of expedition.

The only good thing about taking a land rover, is you dont need to carry any extra fuel since it will break down before you go through the first tank. Better to use that space for water and food to have while you are waiting for rescue.

 

[99Cruiser]

I don't know about the new defender, but the new Ford Bronco has me excited. I can't wait for the reveal in March. It supposed to have the 2.7tt which moved the F150 I test drove pretty quickly. Now if they offer the Bronco with the Coyote V8, I may need to pick one up.

 

[stonepa]

I don't know about the new defender, but the new Ford Bronco has me excited. I can't wait for the reveal in March. It supposed to have the 2.7tt which moved the F150 I test drove pretty quickly. Now if they offer the Bronco with the Coyote V8, I may need to pick one up.

Looks like an interesting vehicle. But a removable roof? I wonder what the payload and roof load limits will be.

 

[stonepa]

I would take a Sienna overlanding before I tried to take a Land Rover. Not joking at all. I wouldn't even think twice about it. Reliability is the very first box that must be checked in my book. There is no way that thing will be reliable. And if its not reliable, none of the other boxes matter. It shouldn't even be called a Defender.

Id take a 20 year old 100 with 250k miles and no idea of its prior service history overlanding before I took that "Defender" to soccer practice.

A Suburban, Excursion a VW Golf, a Pontiac Aztec, a Yugo, I can think of literally 100s of vehicles that I would take on a trip before I made the epicly stupid decision of trying to take that 6000 pound box of complete junk on any sort of expedition.

The only good thing about taking a land rover, is you dont need to carry any extra fuel since it will break down before you go through the first tank. Better to use that space for water and food to have while you are waiting for rescue.

Ok. Well thats one opinion. But I bet it sells like hotcakes and will be strong competition for any updated Land Cruiser. And, from a spec standpoint, the Defender is in a very small group - the 200 and the G-Wagen. Thats it in light duty overland capable vehicles for sale in the US.

 

[Dan Higgins]

Ok. Well thats one opinion. But I bet it sells like hotcakes and will be strong competition for any updated Land Cruiser. And, from a spec standpoint, the Defender is in a very small group - the 200 and the G-Wagen. Thats it in light duty overland capable vehicles for sale in the US.

I will admit that I find the new Defender intriguing as well. I loved my LR4. Rock solid. Better cargo area. BUT, after driving it 56K I was beginning to have doubts about reliability and maintenance costs. And I needed to comfortably tow a 6K# trailer but the LR4 had serious questions about the max hitch weight and the use of weight distribution hitches. So we moved to the LC. And where I say I "loved" my LR4, I "trust" my Land Cruiser. Trust trumps love for me. IF (and that's a big "if") we see great long term reliability out of the Defender over the first 5 years and 200K miles then maybe I would consider it to replace our LC if Toyota changes direction on the LC. Time will tell. And for the foreseeable future, I'll "trust" my LC.

 

[Tex68w]

Yeah - I've seen that second hand with many friends. The Gladiator has seemed o fix that issue though. And it finally has a realistic payload. Previous Jeeps, including the Rubicon, where way under built from stock. That's a big reason why I never bought one - I can drive a totally stock Land Cruiser, loaded up with gear, anywhere (short of rock crawling) directly from the dealer.

I don't see how the Gladiator has fixed any of the issues that the prior Jeeps had, it's the same basic vehicle after all and has only been out for a year at best. They are still having frame issues and Jeep are burning to the ground as well. I used to be a big time Jeep fan but I got bit far too many times and doubt I will ever trust one again, at least not as a daily driver. Like others have said, you can't put them in the same class of vehicle as the LC/LX.

I test drove the GX three times. I really disliked it. Visibility out the back is very poor, due to the thick D-pillars, the generally higher belt-line, and the very thick window surrounds on the rear window.

You either like the barn door or you hate it. I hate it.

The third-row seats in the GX fold "flat" into the floor. In reality, what Lexus did was to raise the rear floor about 5 inches. So when you open the rear door, you will see that the floor is about 5" above the sill of the rear door. This takes up a huge amount of cargo space. If you fold the 2nd and 3rd row of the GX, you get only 60 cu ft of cargo space. In contrast, for the LC you get 80 cu ft. The GX is the right size overall for me, if only it was available without the third row. But it isn't.

The 4Runner is the right size for me and it has 80 cu ft of cargo space (without a 3rd row), but the drivetrain on the 5th gen 4Runner is just horrid IMO. It is also a much less refined vehicle overall (I test drove a 2015 Limited trim several times). Also, you have a Hobson's choice of either accepting a part-time 4WD system and good off-road ability (TRD Off-Road trim) or get the Limited with the proper Torsen lockable center-diff (just like the LC), but have less off-road ability with poorer angles and those stupid 20" wheels. Sigh.

One thing that I hate about the GX is that the rear side panels are molded to fit flush with the folded third row. So it would look like crap if you pulled out the third row.

Finally, I found the drivers seats on the GX to be very uncomfortable. It felt like there was a hard rim around the outside edge of the seat bottom that dug into my thighs.

After test driving the GX 3 times, I test drove a used, 2-year-old LC. Within 10 minutes I knew that I liked the LC much, much better than the GX. YMMV.

I agree with most of what you said here but you can easily delete the third row and then none of that factors. If you don't like the sides after the delete then add some drawers or use the Goose Gear plate and have them make you infill plates for that space or better yet wait for their GX460 specific drawers and infill plates they have coming out later this year.

We have both a GX and a LX (2019's) and while I prefer the ride and creature comforts of the LX better (as I should, it's a $40K more expensive suv) I can't deny that the GX is a better overall size for off-road and daily driving around town. The back door is odd and the seats aren't as good (better than a 5th gen though) as those in the LX, but it is a nice happy medium in all regards between a 5th Gen and a 200 series and when talking new it is only slightly more than a 5th Gen and $35K-50K+ less than a 200 LC/LX.

I am not in love with the looks of the GX and I am disappointed in it's tech and aging interior design, but I can't deny that for this segment there is no better option for the money and our needs. I'll turn our GX into the mild yet capable off-roader that I always wanted our 5th Gen to be and it'll do it with more power, fuel economy, comfort and room. I'll fix that ugly front end with a winch bumper and then maybe I can finally stand to look at it when I go outside lol.

 

[linuxgod]

8200# tow capacity but only 330# hitch weight? Useless rating - it can tow no more than 3300# safely. I'm out.

 

[skwab]

So - after reading all of this and maybe I missed it, but will 2021 be the last production year for the current model 200?

 

[M1911]

So - after reading all of this and maybe I missed it, but will 2021 be the last production year for the current model 200?

No one outside of Toyota knows for sure. Toyota has not made a formal statement. Considering that 2022 models won't go on sale until fall of 2021, we are probably more than a year away from any formal statement from Toyota about the 2022 Land Cruiser and LX.

Everything you've read is speculation. Some of that speculation is likely informed. Some of that speculation is likely uninformed. But none of us really have enough information to clearly determine which is which.

 

[stonepa]

I don't see how the Gladiator has fixed any of the issues that the prior Jeeps had, it's the same basic vehicle after all and has only been out for a year at best. They are still having frame issues and Jeep are burning to the ground as well. I used to be a big time Jeep fan but I got bit far too many times and doubt I will ever trust one again, at least not as a daily driver. Like others have said, you can't put them in the same class of vehicle as the LC/LX.

I would tend to agree. They have done a good job fixing the stock suspension issues that the prior jeeps had. Big improvement but I am not buying one no matter how much they discount Gladiators around here (I've seen discounts of over $10k off sticker, plus all rebates). Maybe they sold them to everyone that wanted one, and now they've dried up their customer pool.

 

[Markuson]

Just looked at the new Defender 110. Real payload, real off-road capability, real roof load capacity. Hybrid option. Land Cruiser finally has a really challenger in the US if the reliability is there. I hope Toyota steps up quickly.

 

[stonepa]

But remember who typically buys LC200 new. There's the 0.1% of people like me that actually overland and will drive it to Central America once a year. And then there are the 99.9% that lease the vehicle and use it as a status vehicle. That is where the new Land Cruiser / luxury vehicle market is in the US. The Defender is going to do very well with its published specs. Reliability will only matter to the 3rd and 4th owners after the vehicle is 5 years old. And it will still sell well. At that point they will replace the air suspension with coils and then use the built in capability to go have fun.

 

[M1911]

But remember who typically buys LC200 new. There's the 0.1% of people like me that actually overland and will drive it to Central America once a year. And then there are the 99.9% that lease the vehicle and use it as a status vehicle. That is where the new Land Cruiser / luxury vehicle market is in the US. The Defender is going to do very well with its published specs. Reliability will only matter to the 3rd and 4th owners after the vehicle is 5 years old. And it will still sell well. At that point they will replace the air suspension with coils and then use the built in capability to go have fun.

You are assuming that Land Rovers are reliable during their first few years. It is my understanding that is not the case.

Even if the car is still under warranty, it isn’t luxurious to be at the dealer every couple months to fix the latest thing that is broken. The one thing that is limited for all of us is time.

 

[stonepa]

You are assuming that Land Rovers are reliable during their first few years. It is my understanding that is not the case.

Even if the car is still under warranty, it isn’t luxurious to be at the dealer every couple months to fix the latest thing that is broken. The one thing that is limited for all of us is time.

Around here, I'd say half (at least) of the luxury-priced SUVs are either new Range Rovers, Range Rover Sports, or Range Rover Velars. Then come the G-Wagens, then the Porsches / BMWs / etc. Way down the list are the LX570s and LCs. So, by observation, in that new/lease market reliability doesn't seem to be much of a factor compared to status.

 

[Tex68w]

The brand has never been reliable, acting like that is about to suddenly change is laughable. When some of the biggest LR fans out there aren't the least bit impressed with the new Defender I don't see how those who already have a less than flattering opinion of them would feel any differently.

 

[LBridges]

Around here, I'd say half (at least) of the luxury-priced SUVs are either new Range Rovers, Range Rover Sports, or Range Rover Velars. Then come the G-Wagens, then the Porsches / BMWs / etc. Way down the list are the LX570s and LCs. So, by observation, in that new/lease market reliability doesn't seem to be much of a factor compared to status.

That would be the same for my area as well. But there is at least two caveats: (1) those same folks don't keep the vehicle past the typical 2 or 3 year lease either, and (2) none of them that I know have only one car. Having owned European iron from several countries (the last being an "S" class Mercedes), I personally wouldn't own any Euro car anymore if that was my only transport.

There is a UK auto leasing site that discusses Rover reliability both recent and up to a decade old. Part of their discussion includes the following:
"Half of Land Rover owners whose vehicles are less than three years old that participated in the Which? survey said that they’d found it necessary to have their vehicles repaired at least once. This is a very high fault rate, in fact, the highest among all manufacturers included in the final report for 2019. Owners of newer Land Rover and Range Rover vehicles that found they needed to have repairs done, spent over five days without their car, which is three days more than the average."

The above should not be construed to imply I have always exhibited anywhere near good judgement.... I bought a new Ford Pinto back in 1971, when my DD was a Norton Commando motorcycle.

 

[coleAK]

Well I always hear about their improvements in quality/reliability but Rover is still last on the JD Powers list

 

[razzyrazz]

I don't know about the new defender, but the new Ford Bronco has me excited. I can't wait for the reveal in March. It supposed to have the 2.7tt which moved the F150 I test drove pretty quickly. Now if they offer the Bronco with the Coyote V8, I may need to pick one up.

Yes, really excited for the Bronco. I've talked my wife out of getting a Jeep for years. This could be close enough to one. Ford trucks in our family have always been very reliable. Also looks like they will offer a manual. Will probably still wait until all the new Toyota lineup comes out over the next couple years.

 

[thammer62]

Well I always hear about their improvements in quality/reliability but Rover is still last on the JD Powers list

View attachment 2227106

Subaru and Infiniti in the bottom 3rd
Volkswagen and Cadillac in the top 3rd

hmmm

 

[M1911]

Yes, really excited for the Bronco. I've talked my wife out of getting a Jeep for years. This could be close enough to one. Ford trucks in our family have always been very reliable. Also looks like they will offer a manual. Will probably still wait until all the new Toyota lineup comes out over the next couple years.

Given how Ford completely botched the 2020 Explorer / Aviator launch, I would wait for the second year of Bronco production.