Front Calipers

[Brentbba]

Well,

I'm not positive that sticky pistons are causing the latest front suspension sounds, but everything else is buttoned up tight to factory torque specs. It's not the same side to side 'thunk' I was getting on the way back from Borrego Springs. When I did the 'partial birf' job and pulled the calipers off, I did notice a least one dust boot completely shot. Tie rod, control arms, etc are all good and tight. Shock mounts are all tight. Sound is almost like the coils reseating and I can create it sometimes under braking and it was making lots of noise on the dips along Holy Jim on Sunday.

I know Mo posted up an awesome write up with pics and all, but I just don't have the time or inclination to rebuild my own calipers right now.

I've got two trips coming up, one to Kernville towing 2 tons and a longer trip up to Sonoma to move my daughter in the cruiser and I need to know I won't have braking issues or other front suspension issues.

Just ordered factory reman front calipers from Dan. $30 add'l for 2nd day air to have them here Friday so I can install this weekend.

Is anyone that knows how to bleed brakes have an hour or so Saturday afternoon or Sunday that can walk me thru this part and pump the pedal? I don't have a tool to do it myself. I realize it's not very difficult. I'll buy pizza or have a around for anyone that wants to help. Getting the calipers and pads off and on is cake. I'v just never messed with the brake lines themselves. Ask Boyd about my confidence level.

If this doesn't solve the sounds, it's off to SDTRUX I guess.

 

[hntashdjian]

Brent,

I have the exact same sounds from my black car. I get it mostly from small road bumps, dips, etc..

Please let me know if the calipers solve the noise issue for you.


Harry

 

[Brentbba]

Brent,

I have the exact same sounds from my black car. I get it mostly from small road bumps, dips, etc..

Please let me know if the calipers solve the noise issue for you.


Harry

Will do - Calipers will be here Friday. Debating the purchase of an easy DIY brake bleeder. Now, pressure from the reservoir or pump from the bleed screw? Later are much cheaper!

 

[DirtyRice Joe]

Brent,

I'm no mechanic, but I've bled my brakes before, and I think I got it right. Search Tech for the proper sequence. As for tools; a wrench to fit the bleed valve, about two feet of clear tubing to fit the nipple, and a container for the used fluid. The clear tubing helps so you can see the fluid change from old brownish to fresh & clear. I'm local and can probably swing by Saturday or Sunday afternoon to pump the pedal for you. My cel phone is 818-822-4636. Good luck!

 

[Brentbba]

Thanks Joe,

Yep - I've read everything there is to read here. Will go thru the FSM tomorrow or Friday evening.

Almost wondering if Kragen has a brake bleeder in their inventory of tools they 'loan' out. It'll be worth a call. If not, I may just invest in a good one and continue to do this myself also! My FIL has a Vacula he loves (powered with an air compressor). Unfortunately, he's in Norcal!

 

[Eduardo96FZJ80]

Thanks Joe,

Yep - I've read everything there is to read here. Will go thru the FSM tomorrow or Friday evening.

Almost wondering if Kragen has a brake bleeder in their inventory of tools they 'loan' out. It'll be worth a call. If not, I may just invest in a good one and continue to do this myself also! My FIL has a Vacula he loves (powered with an air compressor). Unfortunately, he's in Norcal!

Brent,
there is an advantage to using a "Vacula" ......... it won't drink your

 

[Brentbba]

Vacula and higher end MityVac both use an air compressor to create the vacuum as opposed to you pumping cheaper models by hand. The less expensive models have a handle you squeeze to create the vacuum that literally sucks out the brake fluid from the bleeder screw.

If I'm going to buy something and continue to do this myself, I'd just assume purchase a 'good quality' tool to make the job that much easier! I've already got the air compressor!!!

BTW - Kragen (local one here) does not keep a brake bleeder in it's inventory of loaner tools. They carry a hand pump vacuum type bleeder from Powerbuilt the guy said ran about $45. Similar model at Harbor Freight runs $34. I'll find out tonight what Pep Boys carries.

Least expenseve Mityvac that uses an air compressor is $100 online (MSRP is somewhere around $200). Similar Vacula online is $150. More expensive, but they do all the work for you and depending on the psi you set from the compressor can evacuate more than you'll need to in seconds!

Problem is that nobody but online vendors carry the air compressor models. Not enough advance planning on my part to get the good tool.

 

[Eduardo96FZJ80]

Vacula and higher end MityVac both use an air compressor to create the vacuum as opposed to you pumping cheaper models by hand. The less expensive models have a handle you squeeze to create the vacuum that literally sucks out the brake fluid from the bleeder screw.

If I'm going to buy something and continue to do this myself, I'd just assume purchase a 'good quality' tool to make the job that much easier! I've already got the air compressor!!!

BTW - Kragen (local one here) does not keep a brake bleeder in it's inventory of loaner tools. They carry a hand pump vacuum type bleeder from Powerbuilt the guy said ran about $45. Similar model at Harbor Freight runs $34. I'll find out tonight what Pep Boys carries.

Least expenseve Mityvac that uses an air compressor is $100 online (MSRP is somewhere around $200). Similar Vacula online is $150. More expensive, but they do all the work for you and depending on the psi you set from the compressor can evacuate more than you'll need to in seconds!

Problem is that nobody but online vendors carry the air compressor models. Not enough advance planning on my part to get the good tool.

Guess you are going to have to use the "beer powered pedal pump"...... gonna have to go to the kragen

 

[Brentbba]

Fawk that. I'll spend the $35 for this job on the hand model and watch prices to purchase a good one for the future! The FIL has lots of connections at tool places for wholesale pricing! I'd rather work smarter than harder even this go around. The two man approach sounds like a royal pain in the arse!

 

[619TOY]

The two man method isn't that bad. Just make a concious effort not to push the pedal further down than you do during normal day to day braking (you can push the seals past their normal range of motion and damage them)

I have used a mason jar, shop vac and some tubing with pretty good results

I replaced my mason jar with the big air compressor powered mity vac and I'm not that impressed. It develops very little suction and takes a long time to go through all of the brakes.

I would consider the vacula or the small, compressor powered mity vac if I knew that they developed more suction than the big mity vac.

I think I would rather give this guy a shot- Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices than the small, hand pump mity vac. I think that thing will give you carpal tunnel syndrome

 

[Brentbba]

Well, I'll let you know about the hand MityVac. Pep Boys had it at a buck more than Harbor Freight so I purchased it tonight. I didn't see the one you linked when I searched Brake Bleeder on their site. Oh well. Closed Harbor Freight is up in Huntington Beach...a good 20 miles round trip from the office, 40 miles from home, so it's not worth it. FIL likes the Vacula. I'll be up there at the end if the month and I'll see which model he's got. He loves it and he knows his tools!

 

[Brentbba]

Calipers are changed and brakes bled. The hand Mityvac is a POS. Ended up attaching that and having my son pump the brakes.

Anyway, old dust boots were shot, so good to have reman calipers on, but driving around this afternoon, got the same 'click' out of the front suspension. I'm at a loss as to what it is. I'm almost afraid it's the birfs themselves, but just don't know.

 

[619TOY]

Maybe the timing of the click is merely coincidence. Have you checked to verify that every nut and bolt in the front end is tight? I remember one time after running Carveacre and getting back on the pavement, thinking "something doesn't feel right with the steering". I discovered the top bolt for the relay rod about to fall out. It was clicking side to side.

 

[Brentbba]

One of the first things I checked, but will again Steve - thanks!

Plan on taking the grease plugs off this afternoon and sticking a zip tie down there to see if I've got grease in the knuckle. PS has had some squeese out past the felt/rubber back there. Not alot and I know I filled that side up more than the DS when we redid them at Boyds house. Real solid red, like new, not gooey or sloppy like the innner oil seal had exploded or anything.

 

[Brentbba]

It's looking more and more like it's just worn bushings on the relay rod and perhaps tie rod. Great talk with Mo (thanks Mo!) Saturday afternoon. I now know that some twist is normal in the relay rod, but when I did it hard, I got a sound very similar to what I hear when I corner or brake hard.

I have a call into Dan about the $$ of new relay rod and tie rod ends. I've got the tool to remove them, but FSM also states after replacing that the beast should have the front end alignment checked.

I don't think this is a saftey issue before my rafting trip, so I may just hold off until next week, but, if I can get the bushing here, I may just have a local shop replace them Thursday before the trip.

 

[SOCALFJ]

Relay rod? I call that a tie-rod. And the panhard or trac bar for the body to axle. But that's just me being a Jeep guy. I thought the little version that's on the mini trucks was referred to as a Relay Rod.

Anyhoo, whatever we call it.... why would you need to replace the rod itself.. just get new ends if their worn out.. and for that matter you can buy MOOG ones can't you instead of buying OEM versions?

 

[bpenn1980]

Any odd tire wear? I noticed tire wear, went for an alignment, alignment wouldnt "take", asked TLC and the guy there told me that 100K miles + bad alignment = tie rod ends. Replaced tie rod ends and all is good now

If you have that OTC tool you'll get it done in no time. I used a pickle fork and pitman arm puller, plus Sam (pkp80), plus my 215lbs, plus the bfh to get those bastids off. Royal pita.

Also, buy a lifetime alignment from Firestone ~$160. They will hate you, but you can get alignments any time you need. Fwiw, you can count the number of turns each tie rod takes to come off and put the new on on with the same number of turns to get roughly where you need to be, then firestone


[edit: also you can do the 3 o'clock - 9 o'clock check as well. You'll probably have a tiny movement which can be a positive indication for tie rod replacement]

 

[Brentbba]

Relay rod? I call that a tie-rod. And the panhard or trac bar for the body to axle. But that's just me being a Jeep guy. I thought the little version that's on the mini trucks was referred to as a Relay Rod.

Anyhoo, whatever we call it.... why would you need to replace the rod itself.. just get new ends if their worn out.. and for that matter you can buy MOOG ones can't you instead of buying OEM versions?

FSM terms - Relay Rod - runs from the Pitman arm to front control arm on PS.
Tie Rod - bar behind the differential that connects the rear side of the control arms side to side (Per Mo - 'ties' the two sides together).

All I plan on replacing is the ends, not the rods themselves. Slee offers beefed up ones, but they run $110 apiece. Neither of my originals appears bent at all. Relay rod up front has a couple of scratches, but no dents and does not appear bent at all. Steering dampner (OME) looks fine too.

Hell, the OEM have lasted 15 years, I'll stick with OEM.

At least, as I stated, it's not appear to be a real saftey issue at this point with the birfs or calipers. Kicked myself over the weekend. Didn't do another wiggle test while I had the calipers off! Reman's are purty tho!!!

Brad - no unusual wear on the fronts. Older rears aren't looking real good and I can't remember when I rotated those from front to back. Hell - they've got about 60K on them.

 

[Brentbba]

Well, two tie rod ends, two relay rod ends ($164) and an allignment (?) and I'll have an almost brand spanking new front end! Just debating taking the damn things off myself, getting it "close" and driving to an allignment shop to tweak it or just have a shop put it all on.

What say you - 1, 2 or more hours shop labor to install the ends?

 

[619TOY]

I would think a shop would charge a minumum of 2 hours, but that's just a guess.

Like many things, it can be really easy job to do yourself or...a real paint in the A$$. It depends on the tools you have, how & where your rig has spent it's life, and luck.

I removed one or two of my ball joints when I did my front end, and they came apart really easily. I do have a puller though.

If you decide to try it yourself, make sure you break both of the ends loose while everything is still mounted to the rig. You'll have the most leverage that way. I just use a pipe wrench, but there may be a more appropriate tool If you cant break the ends loose from the rods, there's no point in moving to the next step, removing the ball joints from the steering components.