VTCruiser said:
ah humour is wonderful thing! thanks.
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ah humour is wonderful thing! thanks.
crushers
post ho
seriously, there are a few, very few, posts that could/should be moved but all in all is this not a nice place to come and escape the rest of the world for a few minutes a day?
i vote we leave well enough alone...
cheers
i vote we leave well enough alone...
cheers
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brownbear said:
This certainly wasn't the direction I thought it would go, but I certainly wanted to generate some discussion, which it apparently did. I was hoping to incite general unrest and precipitate a violent uprising of the common folk, but this seems fine too.
Peter Straub
hehehehe
First off, I'm pretty open to anything....perhaps moving the Intl forum to it's own Intl section is an option, then splitting things into new sections from there...
my concern, as echo'd by others, is further splitting of the information only makes it that much tougher to locate. However, since I post in this section less than 5x a year, I'll keep open to suggestions/options.
Keep discussing....I appreciate having folks who are interested and willing to bring these ideas forward, rather than just going elsewhere!!
(BTW: this place operates on a sole dictatorship
)
First off, I'm pretty open to anything....perhaps moving the Intl forum to it's own Intl section is an option, then splitting things into new sections from there...
my concern, as echo'd by others, is further splitting of the information only makes it that much tougher to locate. However, since I post in this section less than 5x a year, I'll keep open to suggestions/options.
Keep discussing....I appreciate having folks who are interested and willing to bring these ideas forward, rather than just going elsewhere!!
(BTW: this place operates on a sole dictatorship
)
brownbear said:
I've asked Stone to delete the thread myself when the discussions here turn chatty. It was something I posted to defuse the tensions we saw.
I also vote to keep this forum tech. Chatting with people you feel comfortable with can be done on your own club forums. Too much chat will turn off a lot of people coming here to seek info or to contribute if they feel they are not part of "the club". This forum could slowly sink into irrelevance if the signal to noise ratio is not kept up like the LCML.
Just my opinion,
Dave
Really a fair call Dave,beanz2 said:
I have been posting maps and pictures that really did belong in chat.Some may have been relevent to tech, but plenty were not. Will lift my game, cheers guys, anyone else?
brownbear said:
Ive been thinking along these lines as well. I would like to see a International Diesel forum dedicated to Toyota diesel powered cruisers only.
Those doing chev and cummins diesel swaps tend to gravitate to the 60 series forum anyway.
Owners with petrol powered J7 can use the 60 series or mintruck forums for mechanical and for body advice they can still post here.
We can still have owners of diesel powered 90 or 120 but the V6 gassers and all the associated electronics are well beyond the scope of this forum as it is
We would need to come up with some hard and fast rules so the moderator knows when to act
I would also like to see a International Cruiser chat where we can discuss all landcruisers on an international level without it getting lost amongst the "who shaves their nuts" threads on the other chat
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Poop! I am an American, so I guess that I'm officially out of this forum.
I know that I was already pushing it by asking questions about my dumb old 40 series anyway.
I know that I was already pushing it by asking questions about my dumb old 40 series anyway.
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Damn, look whos in the international section, never would of guessed five a year.
I was one of the early readers of Mud before the international section existed, not to say I am special......... just a subscriber.
Name of the forum does not make up the group who reads it and puts forth much needed information.
I like the group of people from all over the world that post up and look forward to seeing more post by first timers.
By changing the name I do not believe it will change anything about this forum or change the mindset of the readers.
All the best for the holidays.
Rob
. However, since I post in this section less than 5x a year, I'll keep open to suggestions/options.
I was one of the early readers of Mud before the international section existed, not to say I am special......... just a subscriber.
Name of the forum does not make up the group who reads it and puts forth much needed information.
I like the group of people from all over the world that post up and look forward to seeing more post by first timers.
By changing the name I do not believe it will change anything about this forum or change the mindset of the readers.
All the best for the holidays.
Rob
. However, since I post in this section less than 5x a year, I'll keep open to suggestions/options.
I think DTay has a really good point here...thats exactly why I spend zero time on the Pirate LC forum anymore...if you're not a "regular" you feel like you just walked into someone's bar mitzvah. Having to sort through mounds of buddy to buddy chit chat to get to relevant info becomes old after a while.
FWIW I appreciate Peter's humor and historical allusion, but as a USer who owns a Canuck LC down here in Cali and has ridden in a similar one in Nicaragua and has seen them in Europe, I think International Cruiser Tech is the perfect name for the forum. As a once upon a time historian of science and history teacher, for me "International" brings up the project of the United Nations--to promote peace and understanding through communication rather than militarism and nationalism. Perfect name for this board.
And don't forget that the name "American" is claimed by people outside of the United States--my Chilean friends do this all the time--do we want to abandon it to be claimed as yet more of the property of "the great and mighty USA," to quote Peter? I say no. I frankly think "American" should mean anyone in the western hemisphere, from the Americas, North, South, and Central. Those of us in the United States, just one nation among many in "America," need to start calling ourselves something else, maybe "USers." (yeah right) In this sense, this could NOT be the "Unamerican Forum" unless we wanted to start discussing only right hand drivers...
I follow rick_d's advice already: anything body, suspension etc. related, I post in the 40 series forum. Anything 24 volt, diesel, 5 spd. etc. related, I post here. I think this works well for 40, 60, and most 80 series questions, with the remaining 70 series questions, whether body etc., having more than enough room right here.
I think forums for tranny/t-case is splitting things up too much, getting too specific. Int'l Tech (or whatever you want to call it) has the next fewest posts on MUD of any of the series boards, next to the 100 series board. If you start splitting up these posts, the resulting seedlings might die out from lack of postings because they are so specific. Beside, like Wayne, I think it's nice to have just about everything I might be interested in in one place to quickly scan. And more importantly we are all here because we share an interest in relatively fuel efficient diesel cruisers that did not develop into the luxury SUV boats like those in the US. I think that is a pretty compact and well themed community to have a single, diverse forum that centers on "Unamerican" cruiser values.
OK Peter you're right.
And don't forget that the name "American" is claimed by people outside of the United States--my Chilean friends do this all the time--do we want to abandon it to be claimed as yet more of the property of "the great and mighty USA," to quote Peter? I say no. I frankly think "American" should mean anyone in the western hemisphere, from the Americas, North, South, and Central. Those of us in the United States, just one nation among many in "America," need to start calling ourselves something else, maybe "USers." (yeah right) In this sense, this could NOT be the "Unamerican Forum" unless we wanted to start discussing only right hand drivers...
I follow rick_d's advice already: anything body, suspension etc. related, I post in the 40 series forum. Anything 24 volt, diesel, 5 spd. etc. related, I post here. I think this works well for 40, 60, and most 80 series questions, with the remaining 70 series questions, whether body etc., having more than enough room right here.
I think forums for tranny/t-case is splitting things up too much, getting too specific. Int'l Tech (or whatever you want to call it) has the next fewest posts on MUD of any of the series boards, next to the 100 series board. If you start splitting up these posts, the resulting seedlings might die out from lack of postings because they are so specific. Beside, like Wayne, I think it's nice to have just about everything I might be interested in in one place to quickly scan. And more importantly we are all here because we share an interest in relatively fuel efficient diesel cruisers that did not develop into the luxury SUV boats like those in the US. I think that is a pretty compact and well themed community to have a single, diverse forum that centers on "Unamerican" cruiser values.
OK Peter you're right.
denis
(O) toyota nut (O)
This section, and maybe a couple others as well, is turning into its own ghetto to some extent. Tech, chit chat, outfitting, trail rides, classifieds... all mixed up in what was supposed to be a "tech section". Which is absolutely defeating the point of having separate sections in the first place.
The worked involved into making this place as good as the best cruiser board on the planet should be, is far beyond the name of this section. The whole structure has to be retought
IMO
The worked involved into making this place as good as the best cruiser board on the planet should be, is far beyond the name of this section. The whole structure has to be retought
IMO
Scoot Jockey said:Poop! I am an American, so I guess that I'm officially out of this forum.
I know that I was already pushing it by asking questions about my dumb old 40 series anyway.
Stay, Scoot. It is not the person who matters here, it's the cruiser
This is a US based board. Anything not sold in the US is "international", so HJ47's and HDJ80's belong here.
denis said:
I agree, dilute the tech info down with chit chat, ads and trail rides will take away what makes ih8mud great. To keep a forum alive, it has to keep attracting people to come, read and participate. They're much less likely to do that when the forum seems to cater only to a specific group. Like Brett, the decline in my readership of POR Land Cruiser board has a lot to do with this.
I have no good ideas how to restructure the forum, but I think as long as your post captures the reader's interest such as pics of exotic cruisers from all over the world, etc. bring it on. In the end woody and Stone will have to figure out what will keep attracting people the International Forum. If they figure chit chat about who saw who at the corner gas station or how to ignore each other
is not what the forum is for, by all means move the thread.Dave
Change can be hard…
The process of navel gazing can be a good one though.
Interesting discussion, and there are salient points on all sides.
There is the chance the culture and community that has been built in the international section can be lost (which I would not like), however I believe open minds and thoughtful change can help to mitigate this concern.
It’s funny: I had never thought about the term “international” in relation to the rest of the forum. Aren’t the 40, 60, and 80 series international vehicles as well?
I am happy to leave it as is, with more thought given to “chit chat, ads, trail rides” as Beanz mentioned. But then, this is part of the culture, so some means of honoring both needs to be talked about.
However, perhaps these few ideas might assist the discussion…or at least move things further along. Tear apart, or build on…
Drop the term international and create a section called “IESEL”.
Under DIESEL is
BJ4*/whatever else is appropriate
BJ60/HJ6*
BJ7*/HZJ7*
HZJ8*/HDJ8*
Prado/Light Duty Cruisers LJ7*/KZJ7*/KZJ90/whatever else is appropriate
Diesel Swap Tech
Diesel Chat Forum (old “international” section).
While this may seem like a lot of forums and may create some forums that have few postings, the signal to noise ratio will be down considerably. Maybe the Diesel 40 series forum will only have 10 postings…but dealing with the 10 most common tech issues with this truck. That would be okay, as there would be less “chat” to search through to get the “tech” info needed for the end user.
It would take work also, to seed the new forums with appropriate information that has been gained though the years by moving posts into the appropriate forums.
Downside is more forums to check and stay active in.
hth’s the discussion somewhat.
gb
The process of navel gazing can be a good one though.
Interesting discussion, and there are salient points on all sides.
There is the chance the culture and community that has been built in the international section can be lost (which I would not like), however I believe open minds and thoughtful change can help to mitigate this concern.
It’s funny: I had never thought about the term “international” in relation to the rest of the forum. Aren’t the 40, 60, and 80 series international vehicles as well?
I am happy to leave it as is, with more thought given to “chit chat, ads, trail rides” as Beanz mentioned. But then, this is part of the culture, so some means of honoring both needs to be talked about.
However, perhaps these few ideas might assist the discussion…or at least move things further along. Tear apart, or build on…
Drop the term international and create a section called “
IESEL”.Under DIESEL is
BJ4*/whatever else is appropriate
BJ60/HJ6*
BJ7*/HZJ7*
HZJ8*/HDJ8*
Prado/Light Duty Cruisers LJ7*/KZJ7*/KZJ90/whatever else is appropriate
Diesel Swap Tech
Diesel Chat Forum (old “international” section).
While this may seem like a lot of forums and may create some forums that have few postings, the signal to noise ratio will be down considerably. Maybe the Diesel 40 series forum will only have 10 postings…but dealing with the 10 most common tech issues with this truck. That would be okay, as there would be less “chat” to search through to get the “tech” info needed for the end user.
It would take work also, to seed the new forums with appropriate information that has been gained though the years by moving posts into the appropriate forums.
Downside is more forums to check and stay active in.
hth’s the discussion somewhat.
gb
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I think Greg's idea is a good one, though I would tend to put all 70 series in one forum (i.e. include the light-duties), since they do share many interior, chassis and body parts/procedures. There's a lot of crossover in the Cruiser world - already, the relatively small number of repairs I've done on my LJ78 have called for parts also used on both 60 and 80 series.
As a diesel newbie, I know I've learned a heck of a lot about toyota diesels from this forum, even though there's not a lot of discussion about my particular engine. In a sense when you break things into smaller chunks, you gain in precision but also make it more difficult to learn stuff in passing. Also, splitting forums might make it more difficult to search - definitely an issue when you're searching for general advice about things like turbos, etc.
Robin
As a diesel newbie, I know I've learned a heck of a lot about toyota diesels from this forum, even though there's not a lot of discussion about my particular engine. In a sense when you break things into smaller chunks, you gain in precision but also make it more difficult to learn stuff in passing. Also, splitting forums might make it more difficult to search - definitely an issue when you're searching for general advice about things like turbos, etc.
Robin
light_duty said:
light_duty said:
Thanks Robin. Don't know where this will go, and I will adjust with whatever the end result...
There were a few reasons I suggested this:
While some of the items are the same, the front axle size (knuckle-parts), engine, transmission and coils call for their own info. I was thinking forward too, for the time Canada is able to get the KZ engine, with the vehicle attached, and...
If a Prado/2LT/KZ/LD Cruiser section is created...maybe people from around the world would come and find an international home over time. Being totally inward looking, this would be a good thing for Canadians...cause it will help anyone considering this line.
hth's
gb
denis
(O) toyota nut (O)
Greg_B said:
The LD and HD 70 series have an awful lot more in common than say an LJ70 and a KZJ95.
BTW the "light duty" knuckles are just (exactly) the same as the "heavier duty" series, at least until 1990.
denis said:BTW the "light duty" knuckles are just (exactly) the same as the "heavier duty" series, at least until 1990.
Yes, and in fact the post 1990 in the LD are probably heavier duty due to their larger size...and are shared with the HD post 1990's HD HZJ 70 series.
This is the exact argument splitting them would likely solve.
I think the engine/tranny/suspension issues are enough to warrent a different "tech" section.
Anyway, my thoughts, and open to change...I think
peace...out...
gb
UUUGH!
I don't want it all spit up. My feelings, if its not from the US it is on this spot, forget 7x forum. Or other stuff.
Also this isn't just a diesel forum, if you have a 7x with a gasser, you belong on here too.
All I want is tech to be tech, even if that is pictures of your modded up 7x or new bumpers on your BJ60.
we don't need to pick this apart. everything is good here. But as others mentioned we need to say when we think a thread does not belong.
If you post in the 40 series forum with a chit chat item, a whole bunch of posts come up saying chat. they enforce the rules, we do not. In the 80's forums they are a bit more abstract. So some chat does evolve.
Since we are very abstract in our definition. We end up getting a variety of posts. No problem, but we need to be diligent in saying I think this is chat.
Self policing will make this forum on par with the others....IMOP
I don't want it all spit up. My feelings, if its not from the US it is on this spot, forget 7x forum. Or other stuff.
Also this isn't just a diesel forum, if you have a 7x with a gasser, you belong on here too.
All I want is tech to be tech, even if that is pictures of your modded up 7x or new bumpers on your BJ60.
we don't need to pick this apart. everything is good here. But as others mentioned we need to say when we think a thread does not belong.
If you post in the 40 series forum with a chit chat item, a whole bunch of posts come up saying chat. they enforce the rules, we do not. In the 80's forums they are a bit more abstract. So some chat does evolve.
Since we are very abstract in our definition. We end up getting a variety of posts. No problem, but we need to be diligent in saying I think this is chat.
Self policing will make this forum on par with the others....IMOP
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