FOR 3.5" lift install

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NorCalSam said:
That is funny, because the info that I got from people including Frankie is that the more oil or gas (depending on the type of shock you have) is what cool shock not a bigger shaft and the trade off is the weaker shaft. This make more sense to me. However, Frankie is not concerned with smaller shaft on an 80 because the design of the suspension puts very little lateral stresses on the shock if caster is right etc.
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Yes and no. More oil is better than less oil, but once it is hot the heat need to be removed. That metal parts like the rod and the sleave over the rod act as a heatsink that takes the heat out of the oil.


Now if it were a leaf spring truck it would be a concern.
In fact Frankie has tested another shock that has an even smaller shaft that we were thinking about using. It has better cooling thus less fading and is smoother on washboard roads etc. But the Bilsteins have a stiffer feel initially so he felt that they would be a better choice for us as a daily driver on windy roads.
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Yes, the Bilstein will be good for handling in your situation. That is why the are a good choice for sports cars.

As far as the springs, It was my understanding that the springs have a small variable spring rate section. This coupled with the better shocks is why if feels better on a loaded and unloaded truck. And the cold cut CNC method should make the spring hold up loader.
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None of the photo's that I have seen show a progressive rate on the spring.I know the photo's don't show all, but the first wrap looks barely closer than the rest. Most progressive rate springs I have seen have at least 2-4 wraps that are wound closer.
 
I also appreciate your input. I just bought a landcruiser and was dreading having to get an ome lift for it. I bought a new ome kit for my tacoma last year and it is sagging and the ride is terrible. That is only after 5k miles no heavy loads or bumpers just regular driving and some minor trail stuff.
 
update

Here are a couple of driveway pics with the new 35's. We just got the plates from landtank so they aren't on yet. I did take the truck down to the creek "greenhorn" and found som whoops and I can say it is night and day from the ome setup. We will sure post up more once all is finished.
We sold our set of 33" tires (toyo MT) and traded in that set of Silent Armour from Good Year. Good Riddens!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm happy to be back as a Toyo girl with a new set of 315 MT's.


Tree
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Little Boss said:
I can say it is night and day from the ome setup.
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I hate to say it but I might have to consider getting the FOR springs and a winch instead of an ARB front locker. I will use the suspension a whole lot more than the locker.... Thanks for the update!
 
vibration club and not happy about it

Update:
We installed Landtanks castor plates the other night everything went well. However, some of the holes were a PITA. Then we put in the Slee driveshaft and I had a pretty good vibration from about 30mph to 50 55 or so. Not something that you would want to drive in much. I am not hitting the tab on the trans and the shaft is in phase. The truck feels and drives much better and the target castor was met, it is now 2.9 and 2.3 it feel better than ever. The angle at the pinion is with in the 1* tolerance and the tech at the tire store said that he can see how it could get much better than that. Took out the front shaft again to make sure that it is the front shaft, it is! Now I have the Toyota one back in and have very little vib at all, and at least for now it is drivable. It could get worse I guess but right now its not bad at all. Good old Toyota parts.
Also going to have to notch the arms for the rear tie rod a little.

:cheers:
 
NorCalSam said:
Also going to have to notch the arms for the rear tie rod a little.
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I received an e-mail from another member who had to grind the casting rib slightly on one side to stop a slight rub. On my truck there was quite a large gap but this seems to be different for different axles.

After our conversation I think you might want to take a close look at the front output shaft of the t-case. Just grab hold of the flange where the drive shaft bolts to and try moving it up and down and side to side. The DC shaft might put some different forces on that bearing than that of the stock shaft.

Glad to see that caster numbers fell into place for you.
 
NorCalSam said:
Update:
We installed Landtanks castor plates the other night everything went well. However, some of the holes were a PITA. Then we put in the Slee driveshaft and I had a pretty good vibration from about 30mph to 50 55 or so. Not something that you would want to drive in much. I am not hitting the tab on the trans and the shaft is in phase. The truck feels and drives much better and the target castor was met, it is now 2.9 and 2.3 it feel better than ever. The angle at the pinion is with in the 1* tolerance and the tech at the tire store said that he can see how it could get much better than that. Took out the front shaft again to make sure that it is the front shaft, it is! Now I have the Toyota one back in and have very little vib at all, and at least for now it is drivable. It could get worse I guess but right now its not bad at all. Good old Toyota parts.
Also going to have to notch the arms for the rear tie rod a little.

:cheers:
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Not sure it has anything to do with Toyota parts vs aftermarket. If the angle is withing 1 degree then technically the DC shaft should work and the regular shaft should not.

From the above post it seems that the stock shaft is not that happy as well. If the angles are off for the stock shaft and you have little vibration now, it will only get worse as the u-joints wear.

There could be another issue going on.

1. As I mentioned on the phone, try swapping with someone else's DC shaft. This will rule out a shaft specific issue. Unlikely but possible. While swapping shafts measure the pinion angle across the flange. This is the most accurate way. If possible do this with a digital angle finder. Before you do that also measure the angle of the CV shaft itself.

2. The CV head assembly is bigger and heavier than the stock head assembly and it is possible that if the transfer case output bearing is worn that you can get more vibrations from it.

3. The test of removing the front shaft is not 100% conclusive. The dynamics of 2wd with the center locked and all the power going to the rear axle is not the same as 4wd with both shafts in and the center open. Some of the noise could be coming from the back as well. Have you done anything to the rear?

4. Your comment re: grinding the arms are interesting. Rick mentioned that it is not an issue with his plates, but now it appears that it can be. So that tells me the relationship between the diff (pinion flanges) and axle brackets is not the same on your axle as the rest that Rick has seen. That means with your caster dialed in, the pinion flange is not at the same angle as the others that have done it with Ricks plates and running a DC shaft. You just ruined Ricks perfect batting score :D:D:D:D
 
sleeoffroad said:
You just ruined Ricks perfect batting score :D:D:D:D
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Not just yet, he had vibrations before he put my plates on. I never stated that they would fix an existing vibration problem.

His experience with the stock shaft having some slight vibrations is in line with others who have put on my plates and left the stock shaft in place. But then a DC shaft has eliminated it not made it worse.

He did put the DC shaft on before my plates and had the same vibration only worse. I'm not convinced it points to a bad shaft but am thinking it's just aggravating and existing situation.
 
sleeoffroad said:
That means with your caster dialed in, the pinion flange is not at the same angle as the others that have done it with Ricks plates and running a DC shaft.
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His caster is dialed in and the pinion angle is <1*. This tells me that there must be some differences in the arms. The other member who had to do some grinding only had to on one side, the other side was fine.

Considering the tolerances that these axles must have to meet alignment specs, they have to be jigged at the factory. The only concern with the arms is the relationship of the three holes to one another. So if there is a little more material around the outside of the hole it is of no concern.

I have more faith in the axle's consistency than a cast arm with three holes bored in it.
 
landtank said:
His caster is dialed in and the pinion angle is <1*. This tells me that there must be some differences in the arms. The other member who had to do some grinding only had to on one side, the other side was fine.

Considering the tolerances that these axles must have to meet alignment specs, they have to be jigged at the factory. The only concern with the arms is the relationship of the three holes to one another. So if there is a little more material around the outside of the hole it is of no concern.

I have more faith in the axle's consistency than a cast arm with three holes bored in it.
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I would think that the three holes will have pretty accurate specs on the location on the holes relative to each other, but the outside rib on the casting probably not so much. Also not sure if he is 1 degree up or 1 degree down. I also wonder if that 1 degree becomes 2 degrees when the axle wraps under torque.

I mentioned to Sam to swap the DC shafts. These shafts are made from all new head assemblies and 120 wall tubing. The thickwall tubing and the extra weight of the CV end can aggravate slightly worn bearings, more so than a lighter stock shaft. Also, the shaft is only as good as the guy working the machine that day.
 
sleeoffroad said:
I mentioned to Sam to swap the DC shafts. These shafts are made from all new head assemblies and 120 wall tubing. The thickwall tubing and the extra weight of the CV end can aggravate slightly worn bearings, more so than a lighter stock shaft. Also, the shaft is only as good as the guy working the machine that day.
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Instinctively I'd be looking at things other than a brand new drive shaft. This was the gist of our conversation anyway. You would have better knowledge of your product's consistency than me and I'm unaware of any DS problems that you might have had.

My recommendation was for him to do a complete evaluation on the drive train including the rear shaft and if he found a problem fix it and then continue on. At 213,000 miles this could be a culmination of several worn parts not at all happy with the new suspension.
 
213,000 miles. on our truck

Thanks for all your help guys. I would like to swap the shafts as Christo said but the only close person that has no vibrations with a DC shaft is Andy and he is in Alaska right now.
 
Also you guys should know that I have the bigger Slee Tie-rod. And the gap on one side is about a 1/4" and the other is about 1/16" But at some point when turning and driving they both rub a little that you can see on the rod ends.
 
NorCalSam said:
Also you guys should know that I have the bigger Slee Tie-rod. And the gap on one side is about a 1/4" and the other is about 1/16" But at some point when turning and driving they both rub a little that you can see on the rod ends.
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That explains the rubbing. Slee's rod is quite a bit larger in diameter than the stock piece. I think if you grind the arms so that there is about 3/16" gap you should be fine.
 
better than ever

Had truck aligned at toyota, front and rear adjustable panhards installed within 1/8 inch from alignment rack at Auburn Collision Center (owed Sam a favor). Steering wheel straighter than it's ever been. Truck feels so stable. The only thing left is the drive shaft. feels pretty ok with the oem shaft. Guess we need to figure out why the DC is vibrating so bad. The only way I can describe it is like those chairs you put a quarter in at the fair for a foot rub (between 0-50). Hopefully we can hook up with a fellow mud member that has no vib and swap shafts for acomparrasion.

BFN

Tree
 
The vib is ok to drive for now with the Toyota shaft. But not how I want it to be. I can find nothing wrong with the truck and have not been able to put another DC shaft "which has no vibs" on my truck.
Landtank is supposed to be in the area next week, and t this point I am just waiting for him to take a look at it.

But it looks cool and drives great!

Need to go camping and test just how well the springs do with more weight.

:cheers:
 
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