FOR 3.5" lift install

[NorCalSam]

Ok…As some of you already know I am the “heavy weight” tester for the new FOR 3.5” lift kit, produced by Frankies Off-Road in Alabama. I have been running an OME 2.5” HD lift with Rancho 9000 shocks for about 3.5 years. I am installing Slee’s adjustable panhards front and rear a new front drive shaft from him as well to compliment the kit, and set it up right for me. I also plan on using Landtanks castor correction plates to deal with the castor problem. My wife and I are very picky, and it is Teresa’s daily driver so if we were going to spend a bunch of money and upgrade our lift/truck. It was going to be a semi custom setup, I wanted to run 35” with a low center of gravity, better castor correction and the best springs and shocks money could by. I wanted better longer lasting springs and much better shocks; this meant I needed shock adapters in order to run the better shocks. And this kit looked like the foundation for me. The only question I had and have is will it handle the weight I have; especially on long wheeling trips with the family. I received the kit the other day and installed it after work.

Now obviously I have a lot of testing for me to do over the next few months, including installing the Slee stuff (waiting on rear panhard Alvaro has caused a shortage in the country apparently), bigger tires and gearing (haven’t made up my mind on the gearing yet). And I don’t want to come across like, I believe that this kit is the best thing since Slee off-road, having not really tested it but this suspension is like night and day. The difference is incredible!…. It is head and shoulders above OME in initial quality. The sagging that I tried to fix by adding packers (that didn’t work) is now gone. The scary sharp sudden dive into corners that I would get sometimes is replaced by a predicable slight body roll; the whole thing is so smooth, firm and balanced.

I just thought that people should know that so far we are very happy with the move and those that are considering a lift or spring/shock replacement of any kind should at least look at the springs, adaptors, and shocks that Frankie has to offer. I went with a 3.5 to 4” set up for 35s this should give me a little extra room do to the extra weight and chains that I need to put on in the winter in order to get up the driveway. Or you could get the 3” to 3.5” set up, this kit is very versatile, it is not too tall to run 33s you could just not install the bump stops. He also can get you bigger springs for running 37s etc.


Sam

 

[Bikeman]

And I don’t want to come across like, I believe that this kit is the best thing since Slee off-road, having not really tested it but this suspension is like night and day. The difference is incredible!…. It is head and shoulders above OME in initial quality.

Not knocking you or your setup, but is that what JD Power & Associates said, or did you come off an OME setup? I want to get more opinions on ride quality than what one other person braggs about FOR on the boards.

 

[elysium]

That sounds awesome. I'm quite interested in the FOR kit as well.

One thing I didn't realize before is that Frankie offered different spring heights (3-3.5, 3.5-4, etc...). That's good to know.

I have to figure out how loaded my rig will be (bumper, winch, drawers, etc...) before deciding on which springs.

 

[elysium]

Not knocking you or your setup, but is that what JD Power & Associates said, or did you come off an OME setup? I want to get more opinions on ride quality than what one other person braggs about FOR on the boards.

In case you didn't catch it, if you read the second or third line of this post, it says he was running OME 2.5” HD lift with Rancho 9000 shocks.

 

[Bikeman]

Ooops. The point is it will be nice getting feedback on ride quality from more folks as they get the FOR springs and billies, and to see how they hold up to heavy weight, although Nay illustrated that with tounge weight from a trailer.

 

[NorCalSam]

Ooops. The point is it will be nice getting feedback on ride quality from more folks as they get the FOR springs and billies, and to see how they hold up to heavy weight, although Nay illustrated that with tounge weight from a trailer.

test them and "see how they hold up to heavy weight" That is what I plan to do.

Us on a overland trip in UT. (note the pile of stuff on the roof rack and the kids that most people don't take on week long trips in BFE and all the stuff for the family all the way to the top in the back, and this UT trip was before the Dual batts and m12 winch).

Me going up hellsgate in Moab

Us on the Rubicon

 

[dcFJ]

Good news about the kit. Ultimately that's what I'd like my LC to look and perform like. Looks great! Great trail shots too.

 

[sleeoffroad]

The only part that I am confused on is if you have heavy springs or the same springs as what Nay runs on a unloaded truck. If that is the case, I am not sure how they make a spring that works for both a loaded and unloaded truck.

Also, to be fair, you had OME with Rancho shocks, so it is difficult to compare straight across. Also, I would really like to see why the Bilsteins is a better off-road shock than the OME. OME does have a lot of features that make them superior for off-road. Bilsteins being a monotube shock is an excellent shock for handling etc etc, but not sure they are always the best choice for off-road.

The other comment Re: sagging, I would have liked to see some measurements on this for the OME. Did you run 863's in the rear or 864's? Also, do you have a measurements on the loaded setup?

I know this is your thread re: FOR's kit and this should not come off as us knocking FOR, but we do get questions on comparisons and I would like to have information to supply to customers.

 

[NorCalSam]

Hi Christo,

These are good fair questions, some of them I had or have had and some I just don’t know the answer to either, I’m a builder (a field guy not an engineer).


Same spring rate for unloaded and loaded trucks:
I don’t know how or if this works either. This is or was really my only concern with the kit. And that is why Frankie wanted me to try the kit as a true heavy weight tester, but he was very confident that it will not only work, but that I will love it. I know that Frankie claims that his springs are of a much higher quality and that he has a large some of money into the engineering and development of them. Nay seems to love them and I know that he or his rig is heavier than it looks (he too brings his kids and all the families stuff on trips). Its not heavy like our truck is, but it’s not light either. I now know that for a heavy daily driver the ride is pretty darn good. I’ll I have to do now is test it loaded up on a trip to see if it holds up to the weight and that it performs up to my standards. Worst case at this point is I don’t like it and I will talk to Frankie about stiffer rear spring s or just get a set of Slee 4” extra HD rears for those long trips. My front springs are about a ½ taller then Nay’s this was caused by a manufacturing mistake but I thought that it would work better for me. This should give me about a 3.5” to 4” lift and Nay is about a 3 to 3.5” lift. I have the rears packed up with 10mm (1/2) of packer to balance it back out. By having a longer spring I have also increased the spring rate a little. The packer should also help but not nearly enough or the same, time will tell. No one kit is going to work for all. The kit or kits that Frankie offers are more like a flexible platform to build off of and or fine tune.

The Stocks and Sagging:

9 out of 10 people told me that the Rancho 9000s are as good or better and definitely stiffer and more adjustable to loads, so I went with that advice. I wanted the best shock I could get. On that note 9 out of 10 people tell me that Bilsteins are the best shock and I know some people that are running the 7100s on there 80s that they moded. So I knew I had to have Bilsteins but I did not like the cost or the potential reliability issues of the remote res shocks.

I don’t remember what the number of the springs were. I do know that I questioned the springs at one time and I found that I did indeed have the normal OME HD springs front and rear. I just got Rancho 9000s instead of the OMEs. So unlike others that have complained about the ride I did have the right springs in for my application, not Js or Mediums in the back. Then wonder why it drives like crap. At first they weren’t bad but that soon changed. The springs just don’t hold up well, and they weren’t all that good to start with.

I will try to get some measurement and pics up soon. I think I am about 24” from the center to the fender flair.

 

[Little Boss]

The other comment Re: sagging, I would have liked to see some measurements on this for the OME. Did you run 863's in the rear or 864's? Also, do you have a measurements on the loaded setup?

quote]

Christo, the OME setup was 850/863.

Teresa

 

[sleeoffroad]

The other comment Re: sagging, I would have liked to see some measurements on this for the OME. Did you run 863's in the rear or 864's? Also, do you have a measurements on the loaded setup?

quote]

Christo, the OME setup was 850/863.

Teresa

I am just wondering if 864's wasn't a better choice for the amount of weight you guys carried. Also, ARB states the springs are 50mm (2") lift springs. I think a lot of times people thing the springs sagged but in reality they are giving the actual lift they are supposed to.

 

[sleeoffroad]

These are good fair questions, some of them I had or have had and some I just don’t know the answer to either, I’m a builder (a field guy not an engineer).

I understand that you will not have all the answers. I just posted the questions for general feedback as more people start running the FOR lift.

Same spring rate for unloaded and loaded trucks:
I don’t know how or if this works either. This is or was really my only concern with the kit. And that is why Frankie wanted me to try the kit as a true heavy weight tester, but he was very confident that it will not only work, but that I will love it. I know that Frankie claims that his springs are of a much higher quality and that he has a large some of money into the engineering and development of them.

I am also interested to see if the cold roller springs do actually outperform the other options in the long run. I believe one of the reasons why we in America trash springs sooner than our OZ counterparts is the heavy rock crawling that we do and the overcompressing of the springs that result in spring bind and subsequent spring sagging.

Nay seems to love them and I know that he or his rig is heavier than it looks (he too brings his kids and all the families stuff on trips). Its not heavy like our truck is, but it’s not light either. I now know that for a heavy daily driver the ride is pretty darn good. I’ll I have to do now is test it loaded up on a trip to see if it holds up to the weight and that it performs up to my standards.

It would be great if you could give us feedback on that. I am still unsure as to how they make a spring that works for both unloaded and loaded applications. From the spring photo's there are very little to no progressive spring wind in the spring.

Worst case at this point is I don’t like it and I will talk to Frankie about stiffer rear spring s or just get a set of Slee 4” extra HD rears for those long trips. My front springs are about a ½ taller then Nay’s this was caused by a manufacturing mistake but I thought that it would work better for me. This should give me about a 3.5” to 4” lift and Nay is about a 3 to 3.5” lift. I have the rears packed up with 10mm (1/2) of packer to balance it back out. By having a longer spring I have also increased the spring rate a little. The packer should also help but not nearly enough or the same, time will tell.

My gut feeling is that the springs are probably a pretty stiff spring rate and it will probably work good for you. That is supported by NAY's pictures to show little compression when loaded. Now how it drives good when not loaded I do not know. Our experience is that with a stiff spring rate and no load the ride is really firm, to the point of being uncomfortable firm.

No one kit is going to work for all. The kit or kits that Frankie offers are more like a flexible platform to build off of and or fine tune.

That is true, however as illustrated by you buying more components from us, it is important to know what you may or may not need additional equipment, especially when comparing pricing. I guess when we put it out as a kit, we like to cover all the parts you need.

The Stocks and Sagging:

9 out of 10 people told me that the Rancho 9000s are as good or better and definitely stiffer and more adjustable to loads, so I went with that advice. I wanted the best shock I could get. On that note 9 out of 10 people tell me that Bilsteins are the best shock and I know some people that are running the 7100s on there 80s that they moded. So I knew I had to have Bilsteins but I did not like the cost or the potential reliability issues of the remote res shocks.

I would like to get the reasons why those 9 people say Bilsteins is a better shock for off-road. Now Bilstein 7100's are a different beast from 5100's. Comes from the same company, but I am not sure one can assume since 7100's is a good shock, the 5100's are in the same class.

I don’t remember what the number of the springs were. I do know that I questioned the springs at one time and I found that I did indeed have the normal OME HD springs front and rear. I just got Rancho 9000s instead of the OMEs. So unlike others that have complained about the ride I did have the right springs in for my application, not Js or Mediums in the back. Then wonder why it drives like crap. At first they weren’t bad but that soon changed. The springs just don’t hold up well, and they weren’t all that good to start with.

Theresa answered that and yes, it seems you had the correct setup. But see my comment re: sagging to her as well as the comment on the rear spring.

I am glad you got something that worked for you. I know the frustration you had when we spoke in Moab two years ago. I am also glad there are more options for people out there. I know it goes against what most people think businesses should do, but we prefer to have our customers to be happy with what they got, even if it is not our products.

 

[Lugboot]

snip . . . The scary sharp sudden dive into corners that I would get sometimes is replaced by a predicable slight body roll; the whole thing is so smooth, firm and balanced. . . . snip

I've noticed this initial, sharp dive to the outside of the corner on my truck as well when first initiating the turn. At highway speeds, loaded, it's kinda unnerving and makes the first turn-in very hesitant. Strange to hear someone else have the same issue. I'm running the OME shocks with the springs. Any idea why it does this?

 

[bugsnbikes]

Im most curious to know whether or not Frankie is in fact offering various spring heights 3"-3.5" 3.5"-4" in these kits. I would certainly hold off for the ability to pick my spring height if his supplier is able to produce various height springs and still maintain that feel and performance he has dialed into the 3.5"kit.

I also think Christo is spot on with his theory that Americans and their rock crawling/ overcompression may be causing early sagging of the OME's . It does make sense that in Aus they see more overland expedition type use-which they may be well suited for. The FOR cold rolled kit may end up being more suited to crawling type abuse in the long run and there might end up being two distinctly different springs for different needs.

It also would make sense that the crawler type stuff is just plain gonna cost more due to a costlier process and spring rolling method. Like everything else in this business- whether its birfields or springs- there always seems to be a cheaper/stronger solution in the long haul that ends up costing a significant bit more up front.

Lugboot: 4 OME Heavy springs sharing the load 400lb spring rate x4 is very different than 1 of those bearing all that 55mph load being shoved forward onto that 1 front spring. We are talking about springs/shocks that sag an inch or more with a mere 200extra pounds of bumper and sliders(with 4 springs sharing that load)........imagine this one spring getting 5000lbs+ of forward momentum moving 50mph+.....thats a ton of shoving force onto 1 spring/shock. Any engineer types out there can solve this one-----> If 200lbs of bumpers/sliders at 0mph sags 4 springs/shocks 1".....how many inches will 5000lbs at 55mph sag 1 spring.......? Just a quick guess is that the cruiser might be able to nose dive half way to China with those kind of forces. An Acura NSX (3000lb car roughly) uses 700lb/in aftermarket springs/shocks to handle better at 60mph......we would need to make an enourmous jump in spring rates to come close to getting our 5000lb cruisers to stop the diving. The solution if you really want it is the good ol redneck one.......quad shocks on each axle corner/shotgun mounts on dash/No Fear stickers on all glass......

Personally- ive been doing lots of Yoga/Meditation lately and am working on "becoming one with my nosedive".......its a spirituality thing with these cruisers......

 

[medtro]

I am just wondering if 864's wasn't a better choice for the amount of weight you guys carried. Also, ARB states the springs are 50mm (2") lift springs. I think a lot of times people thing the springs sagged but in reality they are giving the actual lift they are supposed to.

Could the confusion be many vendors are not advertising them as 50 mm? Even your web site says 2.5"

 

[sleeoffroad]

Could the confusion be many vendors are not advertising them as 50 mm? Even your web site says 2.5"

Yes, but 2.5" lift is what we decided to call it since it s the average between the front and rear. Typically you would get about 2" in the front with using the correct spring for the application, but the rear is 3". I hate labeling lift by inches, but that is what the consumer wants.

I just think that people see 3" or more initially and then when it settles it is closer to spec. So people perceive that as sagging. Technically the only way to see if the spring has sagged, according to OME is to remove it and compare the free height with a new spring.

 

[Lugboot]

Lugboot: 4 OME Heavy springs sharing the load 400lb spring rate x4 is very different than 1 of those bearing all that 55mph load being shoved forward onto that 1 front spring. We are talking about springs that sag an inch or more with a mere 200extra pounds of bumper and sliders(with 4 springs sharing that load)........imagine this one spring getting 5000lbs+ of forward momentum moving 50mph+.....thats a ton of shoving force onto 1 spring. Any engineer types out there can solve this one-----> If 200lbs of bumpers/sliders at 0mph sags 4 springs 1".....how many inches will 5000lbs at 55mph sag 1 spring.......? Just a quick guess is that the cruiser might be able to nose dive half way to China with those kind of forces.

Thanks for the explanation! So this is something endemic to the load/lift/springs/shocks (OME) with nothing to be done to mitigate it without changing suspension parts? Should I just take it as part of the deal with a lifted 80 and assume everyone experiences it?

 

[NorCalSam]

I am just wondering if 864's wasn't a better choice for the amount of weight you guys carried. Also, ARB states the springs are 50mm (2") lift springs. I think a lot of times people thing the springs sagged but in reality they are giving the actual lift they are supposed to.

No....the back driverside sagged over time. This is where I have my spare tire. I tried to fix it by adding a 10mm packer and it did nothing.

 

[bugsnbikes]

Thanks for the explanation! So this is something endemic to the load/lift/springs/shocks (OME) with nothing to be done to mitigate it without changing suspension parts? Should I just take it as part of the deal with a lifted 80 and assume everyone experiences it?

Personally i think this is the reality we all live with. Yeah we could mitigate some of it with a super heavy spring and super heavy shocks- but the cruiser would feel like crap(and start to rattle like a new chebby or Heep). For me the tradeoff is i drive a bit further from the jackass on the cell phone in front of me/dont (often) do more than 70mph/and relax and enjoy how plush the cruiser is over potholes that eat small cars for lunch.

 

[Lugboot]

Personally i think this is the reality we all live with. Yeah we could mitigate some of it with a super heavy spring and super heavy shocks- but the cruiser would feel like crap(and start to rattle like a new chebby or Heep). For me the tradeoff is i drive a bit further from the jackass on the cell phone in front of me/dont (often) do more than 70mph/and relax and enjoy how plush the cruiser is over potholes that eat small cars for lunch.

Yep, I drive the same way (now). Rarely ever see the north side of 70 and that's fine. It still rides waaaaay better and more solid than the newer chevy I got rid of. Thanks again.