Falken Wildpeak A/T3W (P) or Michelin Defender LTX M/S (LT)? (1 Viewer)

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Moby

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Yes, another tire thread. I'm going to bump up to 285/65/18. What I'd really like is an LTX M/S in this size in a P instead of an LT from a weight and ride comfort perspective. But that doesn't exist. The Wildpeak is available in a P in this size at only 39lbs.

Let's assume for this comparison that the LTX tread will most likely do everything I need (lots of highway, gravel/dirt roads, snow, lots of rain). I don't believe that I really need the tread on the Wildcat, but the availability of the P makes it tempting. I don't believe that I need an LT tire either.

So....

  1. Anyone have snow experience with the LTX M/S? I see snow & mountain passes regularly in the winter but would like to avoid a second set of tires if possible. The Wildcats seem to do great in the snow from actual youtube reviews by real people. Can't find much of the same type of reviews for the LTX M/S.
  2. Anyone have the LTX in an LT that can speak to the ride quality?
  3. MPG feedback on the Wildcat in a P size?
Not interested in looking at other tires at this point, I'm between these two.
 
Yes, another tire thread. I'm going to bump up to 285/65/18. What I'd really like is an LTX M/S in this size in a P instead of an LT from a weight and ride comfort perspective. But that doesn't exist. The Wildpeak is available in a P in this size at only 39lbs.

Let's assume for this comparison that the LTX tread will most likely do everything I need (lots of highway, gravel/dirt roads, snow, lots of rain). I don't believe that I really need the tread on the Wildcat, but the availability of the P makes it tempting. I don't believe that I need an LT tire either.

So....

  1. Anyone have snow experience with the LTX M/S? I see snow & mountain passes regularly in the winter but would like to avoid a second set of tires if possible. The Wildcats seem to do great in the snow from actual youtube reviews by real people. Can't find much of the same type of reviews for the LTX M/S.
  2. Anyone have the LTX in an LT that can speak to the ride quality?
  3. MPG feedback on the Wildcat in a P size?
Not interested in looking at other tires at this point, I'm between these two.
I think the weight is actually around 50 lbs for the wildpeak…the 41 is an error on tire rack.

I cannot speak to the p metric with that amount of sidewall comfort vs a load range e light truck tire, but, everything I’ve read has said that load range e is kind of stiff in the sidewall.

If you’re willing to change your rims, there are some load range c, which is just a little stiffer than those wildpeaks.

You might want to do some research on what the minimum psi you’d be able to drive with each of them to meet load requirements…I think the load e requirements vs the falken would be like 37 vs 30 for the lx (higher for the lc200)

So you might have to run 7 psi higher with the load range e…and even w that harder tire (due to pressure), the sidewalls would also likely be stiffer too, which would provide even less flex/cushion.
 
To your first question, LTX MS are excellent in the snow. I can't compare to the Falkens as I've never run the Falkens before. You probably don't see youtube reviews of them because they're not a "cool" offroad tire, and therefore no fanboys. My personal opinion is the the LTX MS is the best all around truck tire for a vehicle that will not see much offroad. Falken wildpeaks do have the mountain snowflake designation, so I'm sure they're pretty good. Lots of people running them around Colorado.

If your priority is weight and ride comfort, I'd probably give the P-rated Falkens a try. I think they'll both be passable in winter conditions.
 
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I have the Michelins you speak of in stock size.
They are excellent in snow and the ride comfort is superb.
 
The falkens are great in snow. Drove them thru a huge storm up to Vail last winter, very stable, no slippage unless I wanted to make the truck slide
 
Yes, another tire thread. I'm going to bump up to 285/65/18. What I'd really like is an LTX M/S in this size in a P instead of an LT from a weight and ride comfort perspective. But that doesn't exist. The Wildpeak is available in a P in this size at only 39lbs.

Let's assume for this comparison that the LTX tread will most likely do everything I need (lots of highway, gravel/dirt roads, snow, lots of rain). I don't believe that I really need the tread on the Wildcat, but the availability of the P makes it tempting. I don't believe that I need an LT tire either.

So....

  1. Anyone have snow experience with the LTX M/S? I see snow & mountain passes regularly in the winter but would like to avoid a second set of tires if possible. The Wildcats seem to do great in the snow from actual youtube reviews by real people. Can't find much of the same type of reviews for the LTX M/S.
  2. Anyone have the LTX in an LT that can speak to the ride quality?
  3. MPG feedback on the Wildcat in a P size?
Not interested in looking at other tires at this point, I'm between these two.

Falken no longer list the ISO-Metric 285/65R18 116T SL tire on their web site, only the LT-Metric LT285/65R18 125/122S Load Range E tire (Falken Tire Web Site). Tire Rack does list the ISO-Metric tire (Tire Rack Web Site). I don't know whether this means Falken is discontinuing this tire or not, but might be worth considering in case you need a replacement tire in the future.

In any case, here are some tire inflation numbers that might help you make a decision between the two tires you are considering:

The RCTIP for the Falken WILDPEAK A/T3W 285/65R18 116T SL tires on your LC200 is 33psi F/R - same as OEM tires.

The RCTIP for the Michelin Defender LTX M/S LT285/65R18 125/122R Load Range E tires on your LC200 is 42psi F/R.

HTH
 
Thanks all!

Anyone out there with experience with the LT version of the LTX M/S? It's the only thing holding me back at this point.
 
I could be mistaken on this, but I don't believe the LTX has the 3PMS rating like the AT3W does? The 'Mud plus Snow' moniker is marketing, not a true rating.

I previously ran the LTX on our 2004 100 and specifically upgraded to the AT3W because of the performance on white roads. In my experience, the AT3W excels much above the LTX. YMMV.
 
The Defender in LT is just a phenomenal tire. The comfort and performance in rain and snow are second to none.

I’m a Michelin fanboy so take it for what it is worth.

1668448595368.jpeg
 
I could be mistaken on this, but I don't believe the LTX has the 3PMS rating like the AT3W does? The 'Mud plus Snow' moniker is marketing, not a true rating.
Correct. From the TireRack web site (LTX M/S on TireRack):

Defender LTX M/S tires feature Michelin Evertread compound, which is a stronger advanced compound that holds up to tougher conditions longer. This compound is molded into a symmetric tread design of stable independent tread blocks featuring high-density 3-D Active Sipes to deliver all-season traction on dry roads and in inclement weather. Four wide circumferential channels, multiple lateral grooves and open shoulder slots promote lateral water evacuation to enhance wet traction and stopping performance. The tire's profile features Michelin's MaxTouch Construction to produce a contact patch that promotes reliable traction and long wear by evenly distributing acceleration, braking and cornering forces.

The tire's internal structure includes twin steel belts to provide the strength and durability needed to handle heavy loads.

NOTE: The Defender LTX M/S Highway All-Season tire is NOT a dedicated winter / snow tire. It does NOT meet the severe snow traction requirements and is NOT branded with the three-peak mountain snowflake (3PMSF) symbol.


HTH
 
I could be mistaken on this, but I don't believe the LTX has the 3PMS rating like the AT3W does? The 'Mud plus Snow' moniker is marketing, not a true rating.

I previously ran the LTX on our 2004 100 and specifically upgraded to the AT3W because of the performance on white roads. In my experience, the AT3W excels much above the LTX. YMMV.

Correct. From the TireRack web site (LTX M/S on TireRack):

Defender LTX M/S tires feature Michelin Evertread compound, which is a stronger advanced compound that holds up to tougher conditions longer. This compound is molded into a symmetric tread design of stable independent tread blocks featuring high-density 3-D Active Sipes to deliver all-season traction on dry roads and in inclement weather. Four wide circumferential channels, multiple lateral grooves and open shoulder slots promote lateral water evacuation to enhance wet traction and stopping performance. The tire's profile features Michelin's MaxTouch Construction to produce a contact patch that promotes reliable traction and long wear by evenly distributing acceleration, braking and cornering forces.

The tire's internal structure includes twin steel belts to provide the strength and durability needed to handle heavy loads.

NOTE: The Defender LTX M/S Highway All-Season tire is NOT a dedicated winter / snow tire. It does NOT meet the severe snow traction requirements and is NOT branded with the three-peak mountain snowflake (3PMSF) symbol.


HTH

You two are correct that the defender Ltx does not have the 3pmsf snowflake. But, from my research this symbol is kind of crock. It doesn’t seem to mean much. Furthermore, most reviews (maybe all I’ve seen except your Oregon) is that the defender excels in snow and is better than all ATs in snow (except for maybe super deep/ skid plate deep snow)

I’ve been researching and everything I’ve found says the defender beats all ATs in road, wet road, snow, sand.
 
Definitely hard to get an apples:apples comparison. Snow conditions, even during the same event, can vary greatly from hour-to-hour with temp changes, road use, etc. For those with infrequent snow/ice use this can make evaluations difficult; a bad day on a the best tire may be perceived as poor performance. Compared to 9F snow temps where even summer tires can get reasonable grip. We've had snow on the ground since before Halloween this year. A large part of our life is white roads.

In my experience, I would put the LTX in the same traction category as any other 4-season 'mud + snow' tire. There's no 'killer app' technology to it that gives it any specific advantage. It's a good all-season highway tire. If running it, my advice would be to carry chains for when the worst hits.

For those needing best-in-class white road performance you should get a dedicated snow tire (not a studded tire). Tire tech has made huge advances and the top-tier brand's snow tire offerings are fantastic, better than chains in many regards. Next in line would be the 3PMS tires. There is tech behind that rating. Though opinions and experience can vary greatly. Look no further than the recent KO2 vs AT3W thread here. 'They suck' vs 'They're awesome' comments abound with no true comparative data. The advantage to an IH8MUD user is the 3PMS AT is the Swiss Army Knife of overlander tires; trail, highway, or snow it does it all very well.

Hopefully, it goes without saying here, but airing down is essential for maximum traction. Get good at it and use that tool often. Air down aggressively if speeds are low.

Lastly, the one tire that I'm intrigued by is the Nokian Rotiiva AT+ that @scottm is running on his 21. What's interesting is Nokian has this classified as a summer tire. Perhaps that term is relative to a Scandinavian? ;)
 
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I could be mistaken on this, but I don't believe the LTX has the 3PMS rating like the AT3W does? The 'Mud plus Snow' moniker is marketing, not a true rating.

I previously ran the LTX on our 2004 100 and specifically upgraded to the AT3W because of the performance on white roads. In my experience, the AT3W excels much above the LTX. YMMV.
Other way around. The 3PMS is more of a marketing thing. Many true winters do not have the 3PMS. M+S is what DOT uses to determine what is a “snow tire”.
 
Other way around. The 3PMS is more of a marketing thing. Many true winters do not have the 3PMS. M+S is what DOT uses to determine what is a “snow tire”.
Cole, I respect your posts but I believe you're 180 out on this one. The only requirement for M+S is that there are 25% voids. Nothing else. 3PMS is where it becomes a true winter tire.

Tire Ratings: Three-Peak Mountain Snowflake Vs. M+S Tires - https://blog.tiremart.com/tire-ratings-three-peak-mountain-snowflake-vs-ms-tires/

And at least in Oregon, the 3PMS is the toggle for when 'traction tires' are allowed in lieu of chains by ODOT. No mention of M+S.

Traction Tires | TripCheck - Oregon Traveler Information - https://tripcheck.com/Pages/Traction-Tires
 
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I was curious so I checked the Peoples Republic.... Caltrans site..

1 Snow-tread Tires: The California Vehicle Code, Section 558 defines a snow-tread tire as follows, "A 'Snow-tread tire' is a tire which has a relatively deep and aggressive tread pattern compared with conventional passenger tread pattern". Snow-tread tires can be identified by examining the sidewall of the tire where the letters MS, M/S, M+S or the words MUD AND SNOW have been stamped into the sidewall.

Reference:
 
Interesting to see how different states handle it.

Washington DOT is similar to Oregon. Note there is no 'or' between (d) i and ii.

Colorado, OTOH, is fine with 3/16" of tread and 4WD with summer tires!

If you're in need of bathroom reading material or can't fall asleep, ASTM-F1805-20 is the testing required for the 3PMS label.
 
I think we here in 'Murica are pretty relaxed about our tire rules, the EU on the other hand, not so much. AFAIK, the EU (at least Germany) now requires the 3PMSF symbol. Excerpt from Continental's Euro page: "in Germany a change in the winter regulations came into force as of 1 June 2017, stipulates new minimum requirements for tyres in the winter. Accordingly, tyres on permanently driven axles must now display the 3PMSF alpine symbol. A transition period permits the use of M+S tyres produced before 31 December 2017 until 30 September 2024." As always, this will most likely trickle down to all other EU countries before long, if it hasn't already.

Oh, and for what it's worth, I have been running the non LT version of the Wildpeaks and love them (275/65/18). I had the OEM tires originally, so it did take me a little while to get used to the AT tires, but they've been great in rain, mild offroading and the very little snow we've gotten so far this year in the front range. I would definitely buy them again.
 
Cole, I respect your posts but I believe you're 180 out on this one. The only requirement for M+S is that there are 25% voids. Nothing else. 3PMS is where it becomes a true winter tire.

Tire Ratings: Three-Peak Mountain Snowflake Vs. M+S Tires - https://blog.tiremart.com/tire-ratings-three-peak-mountain-snowflake-vs-ms-tires/

And at least in Oregon, the 3PMS is the toggle for when 'traction tires' are allowed in lieu of chains by ODOT. No mention of M+S.

Traction Tires | TripCheck - Oregon Traveler Information - https://tripcheck.com/Pages/Traction-Tires
The way I’m to understand it is the 3PMS is sort of a next step for all seasons and not a grade for dedicated winter tires, for example my Hakka 7’s do not have the 3 Peak on them.
From tire rack.
082F74D4-7390-4F86-A0A5-2225437FB4B4.jpeg
 
back to the OP question. I’m in Alaska and would say that the defenders in question are way more common up here than wildpeaks. I have a buddy that runs the Defenders year round on his 4Runner and F250.

If I were somewhere where I didn’t switch to a true winter tire I’d run defenders year round.
 

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