dog fights
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semlin
curmudgeon
what's the life expectancy of a former lineman again?
Less than his waist size
semlin
curmudgeon
how far off was I?
I thought part of your point is that vick is already involved in a bloodsport so his involvement in another makes some sense. i agree.
i think the other part of your point which i was working off is that humans have a weakness for blood sports and that where the line is, is a cultural thing that moves. I agree and my point is that from a pure "ethics" point of view the current nfl is not justifiable and its just a matter of our culture honouring it. I think in 50 years people will look back on today's nfl and be amazed we encouraged children to play a sport that would knock 20 years off their lifespans and give them constant pain and medical issues for the last half of their lives. it ain't dying in the arena but it is still objectively barbaric.
of course, by 3007 we won't be able to hunt or fish or kill bugs with flyswatters either
how far off was I?
I thought part of your point is that vick is already involved in a bloodsport so his involvement in another makes some sense. i agree.
i think the other part of your point which i was working off is that humans have a weakness for blood sports and that where the line is, is a cultural thing that moves. I agree and my point is that from a pure "ethics" point of view the current nfl is not justifiable and its just a matter of our culture honouring it. I think in 50 years people will look back on today's nfl and be amazed we encouraged children to play a sport that would knock 20 years off their lifespans and give them constant pain and medical issues for the last half of their lives. it ain't dying in the arena but it is still objectively barbaric.
of course, by 3007 we won't be able to hunt or fish or kill bugs with flyswatters either
The difference being of course that no one is forced to play football. They do it of their own free will (and for a lot of money at the professional level I might add). I will encourage my son to play football as I did (and my father and his father, etc.) - it's a great sport, and as near as I can tell will not knock any years off my life...
I will have to agree that while I do not like it personally I do not find bull fighting or cock fighting as offensive as dog fighting. Something about the food chain thing I guess. Chickens are just nasty little scrappy things that would fight anyway. Dogs would to but the loser should be able to get away if possible. Rarely to animals fight to the death in nature. Dogs are mans best friend and deserve alittle better. But thats just MHO. As for people, they suck, bring back the gladiators. UFC is an big step in the right direction.
Shahram
I ain't got herpes no more.
Whoever said that dog fighting is a part of black culture is a dumbass. That argument would almost fly if the person were English, Japanese, Italian or even Argentinian or Brazilian, where centuries old traditions of dog fighting (cruel as it may be) exist. Dog fighting is not a part of African culture, and neither is it the tradition of African-Americans. Animal abuse is not an inherent part of the black heritage in this country, and whoever states it is does a disservice to black people.
I must know some very un-cultured African American people according to Jamie Foxx.
Sporin
Site Addict
I agree, let's tell that to Shannon Sharpe, Clinton Portis, Jaime Fox, et al.
Shahram
I ain't got herpes no more.
And while we're at it, let's try and figure out why anyone would give a s*** what their opinion is, who elected them representatives of black people or experts on black culture, and why the media would even bother reporting their views. Maybe we can then move on to Jesse, Al, and Louis, and figure out how the hell they got to be unelected representatives.
My own homework project will be to figure out who the hell Shannon Sharpe and Clinton Portis are. I'll assume they're sports figures of some kind, if only for the fact that I've never heard their names before.
semlin
curmudgeon
were you a lineman and how long did you play?
playing devil's advocate here...
1. how much free will do most young children playing football actually exercise in choosing to get involved in the sport? how much is parental/cultural influence?
2. overall, kids are influenced and encouraged to play football by a thousand different cultural factors even though it is objectively a bad idea for a person to play football professionally.
I don't have anything against football by the way. i'm fine with it and i would fight against any ban of the sport. my point is that applying a pure moral or ethical analysis to any human activity ignores human nature/deep human cultural traits which value things that are not quantifiable on a moral or ethical analysis or may even be objectively "wrong" morally. you can't rationally justify the human cost of football as a national passtime on any basis other than to recognize the human love of bloodsports. rationally and morally, we should all be playing soccer or flag football to cut down on the strain on our health system...
so when someone screams that dog fighting is barbaric and can't possibly be condoned, I say it wasn't that obvious to our ancestors 100 or even 50 years ago even though they received relatively thorough moral educations, so its a cultural relativity thing not a moral issue, and we ought to be careful about being hypocrites to enforce our current cultural viewpoint under the guise of morality or ethics lest that slippery slope lead us to ban football
.for more on this, read up on the fox hunting debate in the uk. there you have two contemporaneous cultures, one of whom values the sport just the way you do football, while the other group has wrapped itself in morality and claims the right to overrule the values of the first group. the result is to an outsider even if fox hunting disgusts you as a concept it is hard to decide whether the fox hunting is uglier than the people vigorously enforcing their culturally relative views on others in the misguided belief they are morally superior.
Strong safety and tailback.
I remain unconvinced. The leap from humans "choosing" (with your influences duly noted) to play football and two dogs being thrown in a ring by humans is one I can't make. In my mind the "moral issues" aren't relavent when someone is choosing to do something.
I remain unconvinced. The leap from humans "choosing" (with your influences duly noted) to play football and two dogs being thrown in a ring by humans is one I can't make. In my mind the "moral issues" aren't relavent when someone is choosing to do something.
Shahram
I ain't got herpes no more.
Strong safety and tailback.
I'm sorry, but is football not the gayest sport on the planet? Not like love the shoes hate the bag, let's vacation in Ibiza gay, but more like gladiator wrestling, dudes get lonely on the chain gang, Tom of Finland meets Michael Clarke Duncan gay. You know, like Republican gay.
Seriously, "Tailback" sounds like a dude that sneaks up behind you in the showers, and "Strong Safety" sounds like the guy who holds you afterward and tells you it's gonna be okay.
Or, maybe that's just my take on it.
Nah.
That goes along with my theory that straight transvestites are the least gay males around. It's straight men that love women so much they want to look like them and wear their underwear. They love women so much they are practically lipstick lesbians, and if a lipstick lesbian is gay there is no straight.
crushers
post ho
- Thread starter
- #57
WOW!! this took off on a tangent quickly...
i agree, it seems the personality is what really makes the dog fighting disgusting...
killing for food i can see, killing for protection i can see.
killing animals for sport i just don't get. my understanding is that humans were put on the earth to look after the animals so we must have wandered a long way to actually take a thrill of watching them rip each other apart...
now to me a sport would be to throw the spectators into the ring barehanded with the kill trained dogs...THAT would be entertainment. when you go in you get a number, if your number is called you HAVE to enter the pit...
i agree, it seems the personality is what really makes the dog fighting disgusting...
killing for food i can see, killing for protection i can see.
killing animals for sport i just don't get. my understanding is that humans were put on the earth to look after the animals so we must have wandered a long way to actually take a thrill of watching them rip each other apart...
now to me a sport would be to throw the spectators into the ring barehanded with the kill trained dogs...THAT would be entertainment. when you go in you get a number, if your number is called you HAVE to enter the pit...
Shahram
I ain't got herpes no more.
Um..................okay.
So, what you're saying is...you might wear panties and heels, but you wear them in a sort of Eddie Izzard, Executive Transvestite, Tim Curry, New York Dolls, "I might be in stiletto heels but I will drink this beer, kick your ass, fxxx your girlfriend in the alley behind that door, smoke a cigarette and then take her to get a hot dog at Gray's and make her pay for it, pal" kind of way?
Cool.
Yeah... something like that.
Sure dude. You seem to have put a lot of thought into gayness... Oh, and I definitely wouldn't tell you it's OK.
