Carb Cheater

[CruiserTrash]

Yes, I've thought about a VSV in some of those locations, but ultimately, I'm still smogged, and the HAC is working so I'd rather just let the system be automatic.

Target AFR for your elevation and light load should be around 15-ish. I'm at 800' above sea level and mine does the same. I always just attributed it to all the smog sheet, particularly Air Injection

My theory is that Toyota was meeting the EPA specs of the time. BAck then only CO and HC were a concern, the EPA didn't mandate anything about NOx. HC and CO increase when you're running rich, but taper off when you're lean (an oversimplification but bear with me here). In order to stay well clear of CO & HC, Toyota designed the smogged US engines to run lean - they bailed out on the lean side for safety, and because there weren't any repercussions for that. To their benefit the cooling system on the 2F could handle the additional heat running lean. There may be localized hotspots, particularly around the valves, but again the cast iron head is going to absorb and dissipate a lot of that. So Toyota didn't really have much in the way of drawbacks bailing out to the lean side. Fast forward a few decades and now we do test for NOx, so Toyota's engineering bites us in the ass - those of us who have to pass a smog test anyway. I will say, the super lean highway cruise condition is great for fuel economy. I've gotten as high as 19 over long stretches with the wind at my back, but more regularly 15-17 with a light load. Now that I have a bunch of armor, a roof rack, and the VTV (or is it VSV?), I get maybe 14 on the highway.

That's my best guess as to the lean cruise thing. The HAC is the best way I've found for bringing it down.

 

[Spike Strip]

I think the USA LCs were actually designed to run a bit rich, as evidenced by the 1.47 primary jet which as far as I know is the largest on any carb'd LC. Jim C. once posited it was because the OE CAT was so massive (how Toyota complied with 80s CA regs on a 50-State model) that the mix had to be a bit rich for those CATs to work. Modern CATs are significantly different in design and efficiency and materials used as Catalyst.

 

[zeeklafreek]

Am seriously thinking of pulling the trigger on one of these ... am running a stock 2FE carb so I think this spacer would work?

 

[bcolvin]

Am seriously thinking of pulling the trigger on one of these ... am running a stock 2FE carb so I think this spacer would work? View attachment 4129287

I just reached out to carb cheater. Got back to me quickly. I need to take some pics of the carb and linkage. I’m hoping this will work this seems like a no brainer. I’ll post what I find. Just got back in town so it might be a day or two.

 

[zeeklafreek]

I just reached out to carb cheater. Got back to me quickly. I need to take some pics of the carb and linkage. I’m hoping this will work this seems like a no brainer. I’ll post what I find. Just got back in town so it might be a day or two.

Heck yeah. Thanks. I see you're in CO and I'm just north of the Alps in Munich so having something like this would make weekend forays up to much higher elevations a bit more oomphey carb-wise.

 

[bcolvin]

This is exactly my thoughts.

Heck yeah. Thanks. I see you're in CO and I'm just north of the Alps in Munich so having something like this would make weekend forays up to much higher elevations a bit more oomphey carb-wise.

Exactly my thoughts. I’m in steamboat so around 7k elevation just west much lower and east is 3k higher. I’m trying to figure out next move….. maybe a swap. However this looks promising to maximize the carbs efficiency.

 

[LAMBCRUSHER]

@zeeklafreek IDK if a spacer is needed. All it's for is a place to introcue the controlled vacuum leak. For all intents and purposes, you could just use any of the sub-throttle plate vacuum sinls on the intake - I could be missing something, but that's my POV untill someone smart tells me otherwise. Send some pics to Luke of the intake and see what he thinks.

 

[Spike Strip]

A carb spacer would mean the stock air cleaner no longer fits.

 

[zeeklafreek]

@zeeklafreek IDK if a spacer is needed. All it's for is a place to introcue the controlled vacuum leak. For all intents and purposes, you could just use any of the sub-throttle plate vacuum sinls on the intake - I could be missing something, but that's my POV untill someone smart tells me otherwise. Send some pics to Luke of the intake and see what he thinks.

Yeah, I though about the 'not use one' option but from the little I read, and what Luke said, was that one of his makes it loads easier. But perhaps he wasn't thinking of an FJ when he said it, lol.

 

[TheBussman]

always thought this would be cool on a cruiser would like to hear feedback from somebody using it.

 

[bcolvin]

@zeeklafreek IDK if a spacer is needed. All it's for is a place to introcue the controlled vacuum leak. For all intents and purposes, you could just use any of the sub-throttle plate vacuum sinls on the intake - I could be missing something, but that's my POV untill someone smart tells me otherwise. Send some pics to Luke of the intake and see what he thinks.

I agree and from the very limited conversations I have had with Luke it seems that the spacer is not necessary. I sent a bunch of pictures and video over. I’ll see what he thinks.

 

[bcolvin]

I took some pictures and videos of my carb and sent them to Luke. For reference my engine is desmogged. Here is what he said:

“So you need one large vacuum port that if you put air to it would feed all of the cylinders equally. Typically carbs have one of these for the pcv valve. You cannot share this port with anything else.
Your other vacuum port can come from basically anywhere that has manifold vacuum. Teeing into the brake booster line or a vacuum tree is fairly common”

This would be for Not Using a carb base. Where would you try pulling? I’m looking at the brake booster line as well as another location. What would be the best location that would feed all cylinders? Thoughts?

I’m probably going to pull the trigger on this and see what happens.

 

[zeeklafreek]

I took some pictures and videos of my carb and sent them to Luke. For reference my engine is desmogged. Here is what he said:

“So you need one large vacuum port that if you put air to it would feed all of the cylinders equally. Typically carbs have one of these for the pcv valve. You cannot share this port with anything else.
Your other vacuum port can come from basically anywhere that has manifold vacuum. Teeing into the brake booster line or a vacuum tree is fairly common”

This would be for Not Using a carb base. Where would you try pulling? I’m looking at the brake booster line as well as another location. What would be the best location that would feed all cylinders? Thoughts?

I’m probably going to pull the trigger on this and see what happens.

Heck yeah. I'm going to as well....will have the kit shipped to Texas and then mule it over here.

 

[Spike Strip]

@bcolvin

The Carb Insulator port could be used? It's on the primary side, which I think is where you want it...

It's also possible the Insulator could be modified to act as the Carb Cheater spacer...

 

[CruiserTrash]

I took some pictures and videos of my carb and sent them to Luke. For reference my engine is desmogged. Here is what he said:

“So you need one large vacuum port that if you put air to it would feed all of the cylinders equally. Typically carbs have one of these for the pcv valve. You cannot share this port with anything else.
Your other vacuum port can come from basically anywhere that has manifold vacuum. Teeing into the brake booster line or a vacuum tree is fairly common”

This would be for Not Using a carb base. Where would you try pulling? I’m looking at the brake booster line as well as another location. What would be the best location that would feed all cylinders? Thoughts?

I’m probably going to pull the trigger on this and see what happens.

The 60 already has a carb spacer - It's the piece below the carb that includes a heat shield. It's accomplishing the same thing as the spacer from those guys: providing a way to have a line feed into it. Photo stolen from City Racer fwiw. That's the PCV connector there. Or is it evap? I'm having a brain fart. I don't think there would be any difference at all in running a tee off that hardline. That would effectively be the same as drilling another hole in the spacer and mounting a dedicated barb. The vacuum of the engine is sucking in either way.

For vacuum I would tee off the ""gas filter" aka "triple nipple" as I call it - it's the doodad that screws into the intake manifold between cylinders 2 & 3 and provides a manifold vacuum source for everything in the engine except the booster. Just run a tee off one of those three lines. I think that would look cleaner than hanging a tee off the fat brake vacuum hose.

 

[CruiserTrash]

@bcolvin

The Carb Insulator port could be used? It's on the primary side, which I think is where you want it...

It's also possible the Insulator could be modified to act as the Carb Cheater spacer...

View attachment 4130848

Ha! We both stole the same photo!

 

[ttrmike]

I’ve used the carb cheater on a 22R pickup. Not quite a F engine, but I’ve found it to be very useful in adjusting my carb tune. Most of the carb knowledge in the last couple decades has distilled into Holley and Edelbrock, so that meant I was largely on my own to understand the various Aisin circuits and assess tuning results. About 1/2 the time I don’t use the AFR correction mode and just log results to plan the next carb tune step. After I got it setup, I forget that it’s installed and just drive.

ETA: I used stock ports available on the intake for both correction air and vacuum reading. Since there’s no carb cheater insulating adapter available for the 22R carb. I think the consideration for the air correction feed is to have it centrally located so that it’s available for all cylinders. Vice having biased to one side creating a locally lean cylinder condition.

 

[bcolvin]

The 60 already has a carb spacer - It's the piece below the carb that includes a heat shield. It's accomplishing the same thing as the spacer from those guys: providing a way to have a line feed into it. Photo stolen from City Racer fwiw. That's the PCV connector there. Or is it evap? I'm having a brain fart. I don't think there would be any difference at all in running a tee off that hardline. That would effectively be the same as drilling another hole in the spacer and mounting a dedicated barb. The vacuum of the engine is sucking in either way.

View attachment 4130847

For vacuum I would tee off the ""gas filter" aka "triple nipple" as I call it - it's the doodad that screws into the intake manifold between cylinders 2 & 3 and provides a manifold vacuum source for everything in the engine except the booster. Just run a tee off one of those three lines. I think that would look cleaner than hanging a tee off the fat brake vacuum hose.

This is where I have my vacuum gauge currently hooked up. My concern is that this location pulls a different vacuum than other locations like the brake line. I get a reading of 12 from the triple gas valve and 15-16 from the brake line. This is with a new gas valve too. I know I have a tired 2f so I want to make sure I get the most accurate reading.

 

[Spike Strip]

The Brake line is fine, but the Gas filter is restrictive. I put a 'T' fitting on the 3mm line from the finned-cooler fitting on the intake to the Idle up VSV. Reads 20.5" at 800 ft above sees candy level.

 

[CruiserTrash]

The Brake line is fine, but the Gas filter is restrictive. I put a 'T' fitting on the 3mm line from the finned-cooler fitting on the intake to the Idle up VSV. Reads 20.5" at 800 ft above sees candy level.

Do you honestly get different vacuum readings from the gas filter (assuming it's clean/new) and the AC or brake line fittings? They shouldn't be different.