Better Dizzy hold down clamp?? (1 Viewer)

[LEO5651]

We have a post where we replaced the old dizzy hold down clamp with a new one due to the timing was moving as the old clamp was very old. As posted we installed a new clamp with our non US dizzy in 2F engine. Dizzy is seated far as we can tell and runs fine.
We never noticed until then that the clamp was only holding the dizzy in place with one of the two rings on the clamp. This is a bit unnerving when you think about only one ring on the clamp holding a small area in place as seen in photo.
Anyone ever modify maybe weld some steel spacers under the clamp where it meets the mount surface to raise it up? Put a spacer between the mount bolt hole and clamp to raise it?
Or maybe know of a better aftermarket clamp.
Rather do some possible reliable out of the box fixes that a engine rebuild.








Post
https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/dizzy-timing-moves-all-over.828425/

 

[Poser]

When the engine is running, do you have oil pressure?

 

[LEO5651]

Hi, yes we do have good oil pressure. We drive it pretty hard while hunting and get what seems to be a standard bit of a pressure drop at idle after it get's pretty hot but nothing around 40 psi or below.
We did pull the unit out tonight and took a few pictures of were the clamp is attached to the body of the dizzy as it would be while installed to get some measurements. It is only held in place with the one clamp ring (top ring) and the bottom has no contact.
We are thinking that we my construct a spacer made from aluminum in the shape of the clamp with a hole cut out for the dizzies body and it will sit below the clamp when installed were it will position the hold down calm higher up so it will be able to unitize both clamp rings around the body of the dizzy while keeping it secure to the engine. This will give the extra clamping we are looking for and at the same time help in a bit of sealing the exposed area of the shaft hole. We will bevel the underside of the spacer around the shaft hole to place a larger o ring to help aid in keeping water out of the dizzy mount hole.
We found that the shaft hole in the spacer needs to be 1"1/8" wide and the aluminum spacer itself to be 1/4" thick to work. I am guessing that most of the non USA dizzies have this height issue when installed in a 2F or ours is one of a kind.
I have included a very bad diagram of what we are intending for a spacer. Sorry guys as we are not artist.
Your comments are more than welcome on our proposed solution.
thank you

 

[1911]

I like the "big cap" FJ60 distributor I put on my 2F; among the several advantages is the fact that the hold-down is cast into the distributor body so that the bolt holds it positively and securely directly to the block. No clamp needed.

 

[LEO5651]

Yes we saw one of them and they do have a nice solid way to mount. I wish that all the Toyota dizzy's were like them.

 

[Mace]

Your O ring gasket is in need of replacement, and that dizzy was not seated fully into the block. When seated fully, the clamp has both bands around the dizzy. Your clamp looks nice, but it really is not a necessary upgrade.

I am surprised that you had oil pressure. Course, if you have 40 psi at idle, I'd be wary of your gauge. I'm not aware of many Cruisers that have 40 psi at idle when warm.. More like 10-12 psi.

 

[LEO5651]

You are correct the o ring is not the best but really not functional when installed as it sets at the top of the engine mount hole for the dizzy just about flush with the surface. The panel oil gauge shows just below the first mark on the oil pressure when hot and at idle. I could be wrong about the psi.
When you say seated fully we have turned every gear tooth in a 360 while dropping it into place and has always ended up in the same position no matter how many times we try. We put a dab of grease on the bottom center of the shaft that fits into the pump slot and when it drops in the grease mark it in the slot so its seating just the body of the dizzy seems taller. We are going to compare it to a friends Toyota dizzy later tonight to see what the difference maybe. I am sure Toyota have many types but most all with the same shaft for the 2F, I hope. Starting to wonder if this dizzy is for a 1F if they had a deeper mount hole.
Appreciate your input. thank you

 

[Mace]

You can bolt the later fully electronic 2f dizzy into Af motor, and you can use a "non usa" f dizzy in a2f.

I wonder if you have an odd oil pump that is preventing the dizzy from seating fully.

 

[LEO5651]

When the engine was rebuilt they show us the parts that we bought going into the engine which they confirmed correct and a new oil pump was one of the items but it was a Japanese make, can't remember the brand name but it said 2F Land Cruiser so I am sure it is correct.
Don't know partner, we just had a chance to compare our dizzy with a friends and didn't think of installing his to see how it fits. He had to leave so maybe latter we can try that.
We took a few pictures for our reference and ours on the right and Jeff's on the left, he said it was electronic but still had the same measurements.
The only difference was were the o ring sits on the shaft body. We agree with everyone that looks at the pictures of our dizzy thinking it is not seated. Jeff our friend gave it a try on the installation and he too gets the same results. We put two nylon washers under the clamp mount bolt and pushed the clamp up around the clamp neck area of the dizzy for now to at least have both clamp rings around the body of the dizzy. To raise it with the two washers it is about 1/4", that seems just like a lot.
We may leave the rig on the next hunt coming up as we want it right while up in the mountains with no other troubles.
Anyone with a 2F non US dizzy with the same look or not?
Thanks Mace.

 

[Weber Sarge]

I wonder if the machine shop removed and reinstalled the block for the oil pump/distributor ? Maybe JimC will chime in , but that could have an effect on how well that distributor seats ....
Sarge

 

[LEO5651]

I guess the question that we should be asking everyone in this post so not to drag it out so long is this a normal height for a non US dizzy when installed in a 2F engine.
I suppose if the dizzy is producing oil pressure and not making any kind of metal from wear on the gear and or noise we can just build the spacer that we describe in the other posts and just live with it. This would defiantly help in the clamping of the body. The other problem that we did not mention was that due to the height, the O ring being just at the surface of the hole, water and dirt can enter the hole. In the passed after we return from a hunt we wash the rig off and also inside the engine area so we know some water has been slipping by that O ring in the case.
The spacer will incorporate a O ring around the underside where it mates with the mount surface and should take care of any water entering while washing or forging a stream.
We did also last night check the depth of the dizzy mount hole with a thin screwdriver. We measured from the bottom of the slot to the surface of the block and came up with a 5" depth. As the picture shows when we place the screwdriver next to the dizzy for a comparison it comes up to what should be the correct area when installed but as this posting is showing ours when installed is just a bit above the top of the O ring?
I may PM Mr. C and ask if he can clear this up so not to take up any more time on the site. This may be a norm or not. Would like to hear back from some of the folks that have the same install and let us know how their install looks, clamp and all it would be helpful.
Thank you

 

[Mace]

It's not normal..

 

[LEO5651]

Do you have a non US dizzy in your 2F? If so is it fully seated? Is yours a stock US dizzy and does it seat all the way down to the surface of the block mount? I agree that it is not a norm so were do we look to figure this out? As suggested can the oil pump be the problem or the cam gear or ? When we inspect the gears on the dizzy we can't find anything that would suggest non normal operation and the same for the shaft tip that goes in the pump slot. We would love too see it fully bottomed to were the clamp raps around the body completely. Just want to figure this out before we look into a new dizzy if that is the case.
Thanks Mace

 

[Mace]

Actually I do. Mine is from a JDM firetruck without any vac advance. That being said, the typical "Non us dizzy" is actually a US dizzy for a earlier Vac advance F motor. I do not have one of those in my cruiser. My dizzy seats all the way down to the stepped portion of the dizzy like every distributor I have put in it (with the exception of the self modified HEI dizzy).

Cam gear should not be the problem. If it was, then the distributor would not seat in it to begin with. If the blade of the screwdriver seats into the oil pump fully then that's probably not the problem either. For some reason I bet you are hanging up on the O ring groove..

 

[LEO5651]

Good information. We have put calipers on all the parts from shaft to gear and all seems with in specs. We did install the dizzy with out the O ring with no change. We can't imagine the pump to be the culprit, but?. We have read that some folks have had the same problem but mostly with big block type engine with center manifold dizzy but they shave a bit off the end of the dizzy shaft but I don't think we want to do that as it will most likely off set the gear.
We have done Fords and Chevy's in the past and all were full seat installs for the dizzy.
Stumped.

 

[LEO5651]

My brother pointed out that he noticed the shaft has a bit of possible very light scoring. Can barely feel it with the finger nail. Not sure if that is a norm but we think it should have none as it really does not make any contact when installed????

 

[Bear]

Just to let you know,
I have several Non-USA distributors in 2F engines and they all seat fully. Not seating fully causes oiling problems and engine destruction.

My opinion: Be careful grinding off unneeded metal--assuming all your parts are factory correct.

 

[Trollhole]

Correct length from all my dizzy's is 4 13/16"

From what I can tell yours is to long by 3/16. Find another dizzy.

 

[LEO5651]

No metal will be grinded off, that to us is not the fix, we need an answer. We can not explain Bear why this dizzy will not fully seat. You are the first to confirm that your installs fully seat. Now when you sat fully seated you mean right down to the surface with no O ring groove showing and plenty of clamp area for both clam rings to rap around on. Our dizzy says Toyota 2F. If you look at the pictures of our would yours also have the O ring area higher up on the body as ours. It fits in the pump slot and the gear teeth show wear pattern dead center as it should be and we have good oil pressure. I ask if someone with a non US dizzy that is not installed and resembles ours would measure from bottom shaft tip to the top of the O ring slot. We can just buy a new dizzy and be done with it. We are still not sure if the pump slot is too narrow for the shaft tip, we will be checking that tonight along with the install of our friends dizzy. Picture taken last night. Still to much of the O ring area exposed and clamping area high. Thank you for your reply on the Non US dizzy installs.

 

[LEO5651]

Trollhole, were are you measuring from, without that I can not compare. As I understand most all Toyota 2F dizzy are all the same in size ( total height). We did measure our fiends and it was measured from top of the rim of the cap area down to the shaft tip and ours was the same? This was done with calipers.
Thank you