Audio Upgrade - Thoughts? (1 Viewer)

[Peabody]

So, at the beginning of summer I upgraded the tired old OEM system for a new Kenwood DDX375BT in-dash, and Kenwood KFC-1666S speakers in all four doors. Nothing over the top or expensive, but not just crap either. After the install I noticed that there was little to no bass with the upgrade. So, I figured I would play with the EQ a little bit, and decided to give the speakers a decent break in period. After a few months, not much has gotten better (big surprise, I know!).

Here are the options I've come up with:
1. add a powered sub (or some kind of slim-mount sub and box) under one of the front seats and hope it's enough.
2. add a 5 channel amp - powering the four door speakers and a subwoofer, to be mounted somewhere in the back.

I'm just not sure that those speakers are worth putting an amplifier on. Any thoughts or suggestions?

 

[PookieRayRay]

Need same info

 

[ogsuv]

I wouldn't recommend a powered sub under a seat, I have never heard one I really like, but a powered bazooka tube or something similar in the cargo area would be a lot of bang for the buck.

A 4 channel amp or 5 channel amp would be a good investment and many will fit under the passenger seat. I have an older 4 channel alpine in mine, running the frt. speakers and 10" sub. the rears I have running off of head unit power and that works well.

Those speakers for the rear are totally fine. It will also be fine running the front speakers you have off an amp, but I wouldn't expect much more bass out of $40 set of speakers, if I am being honest. You may be able to get a little more out of a $100 pair of speakers for the front (infinity reference is my go to) or if you went out of your way to sound deaden the doors real well on the front inner and outer skin, the speakers will sound as good as they possibly can. Even an inexpensive subwoofer will fill that gap of not having much bass out of the front speakers, with proper crossover settings it will not be as noticeable.

Hope that helps

 

[ga12r1]

I wouldn't recommend a powered sub under a seat, I have never heard one I really like, but a powered bazooka tube or something similar in the cargo area would be a lot of bang for the buck.

A 4 channel amp or 5 channel amp would be a good investment and many will fit under the passenger seat. I have an older 4 channel alpine in mine, running the frt. speakers and 10" sub. the rears I have running off of head unit power and that works well.

Those speakers for the rear are totally fine. It will also be fine running the front speakers you have off an amp, but I wouldn't expect much more bass out of $40 set of speakers, if I am being honest. You may be able to get a little more out of a $100 pair of speakers for the front (infinity reference is my go to) or if you went out of your way to sound deaden the doors real well on the front inner and outer skin, the speakers will sound as good as they possibly can. Even an inexpensive subwoofer will fill that gap of not having much bass out of the front speakers, with proper crossover settings it will not be as noticeable.

Hope that helps

Scott, what’s your sub setup? I’ve been thinking about doing something but I’m not sure how in depth I want to go. I haven’t decided if I want to add a sub, new speakers with an amp, or just add a powered sub and keep my factory speakers running off the factory amp. I know that even a weak factory setup can benifit and sound a lot “fuller” with just the addition of a sub. My factory setup isn’t awful but I don’t think there’s much happening below 100hz. What are your thoughts?

 

[ogsuv]

Hey man. I can't live without my sub. It is easily removable, but it is really really rare that I actually take it out. If you can give up a little cargo space, you NEED a sub. you will not regret it.

Nothing fancy for my setup. I reused the subwoofer enclosure from my last 100. It is/was a custom 10" box with an old MTX 5500 subwoofer. The box it was in was originally meant to go behind the jump seats, but I never used the seats so it sits behind the 2nd row seats behind the passenger side firing towards the back and sounds the best there in my opinion.

Just before HIH8 I bought the SS1 storage system and needed a box that fit under it. Lack of time and table saw led me to amazon for a prefab box that works well ($40). it is about 1 cubic foot. I plan to upgrade to a JL10w1 at some point and may try some polyfill inside the box and verify it is sealed well. It sounds just a little boomy to me, but I am able to adjust most of that out via crossovers,etc...

The sub is running off 1/2 an old Alpine MRPF450 under the passenger seat. Not a ton of power, but enough.

I am using Infinity reference 6.5"coaxes front and rear. $100/pr.

Nothing I am using is particularly expensive or top of the line. Install technique, sound deadening, and tuning make up for that.

Free tuning and advice for Pimento cheese sandwiches!

 

[ga12r1]

Hey man. I can't live without my sub. It is easily removable, but it is really really rare that I actually take it out. If you can give up a little cargo space, you NEED a sub. you will not regret it.

Nothing fancy for my setup. I reused the subwoofer enclosure from my last 100. It is/was a custom 10" box with an old MTX 5500 subwoofer. The box it was in was originally meant to go behind the jump seats, but I never used the seats so it sits behind the 2nd row seats behind the passenger side firing towards the back and sounds the best there in my opinion.

Just before HIH8 I bought the SS1 storage system and needed a box that fit under it. Lack of time and table saw led me to amazon for a prefab box that works well ($40). it is about 1 cubic foot. I plan to upgrade to a JL10w1 at some point and may try some polyfill inside the box and verify it is sealed well. It sounds just a little boomy to me, but I am able to adjust most of that out via crossovers,etc...

The sub is running off 1/2 an old Alpine MRPF450 under the passenger seat. Not a ton of power, but enough.

I am using Infinity reference 6.5"coaxes front and rear. $100/pr.

Nothing I am using is particularly expensive or top of the line. Install technique, sound deadening, and tuning make up for that.

Free tuning and advice for Pimento cheese sandwiches!

Yeah, I’m probably gonna need some advice when I actually go to make a decision. It’s been awhile for me. Back in the late 90s-mid 2000s I was pretty big in to car audio. I even ran a small shop for a few years. I had a DB Drag team that did pretty well for a few seasons. We even came in 2nd in Street C at Spring Break Nationals in Daytona one year(lost by .1db!!!) It’s a amazing how that seems so far-off/unreal now. I bet if I started messing with things again it would come back real quick though(kinda scared of that).

I used to run Precision Power Art series back in the day. That big class AB A1200 was a beast. And so beautiful. They just don’t make em like that anymore(and rightfully so, that thing was power hungry). I guess the new class Ds are where it’s at.

Oh, BTW those cheese curds were awesome. We snacked on them all the way home from Silverton

 

[ogsuv]

Yeah, I’m probably gonna need some advice when I actually go to make a decision. It’s been awhile for me. Back in the late 90s-mid 2000s I was pretty big in to car audio. I even ran a small shop for a few years. I had a DB Drag team that did pretty well for a few seasons. We even came in 2nd in Street C at Spring Break Nationals in Daytona one year(lost by .1db!!!) It’s a amazing how that seems so far-off/unreal now. I bet if I started messing with things again it would come back real quick though(kinda scared of that).

I used to run Precision Power Art series back in the day. That big class AB A1200 was a beast. And so beautiful. They just don’t make em like that anymore(and rightfully so, that thing was power hungry). I guess the new class Ds are where it’s at.

View attachment 1768346

Oh, BTW those cheese curds were awesome. We snacked on them all the way home from Silverton

Man, we do have a lot in common. Similar story for me. 10 years in car audio as an installer and manager around that time. My equipment was whatever supplier gave us the best deal, Sony ES, Rockford, MTX, etc...I dabbled in SQ and went to a few IASCA events, the DB drags always looked fun and expensive! I have a friend who runs a high end shop in Minnesota and keeps me connected to what is new.

 

[ga12r1]

Man, we do have a lot in common. Similar story for me. 10 years in car audio as an installer and manager around that time. My equipment was whatever supplier gave us the best deal, Sony ES, Rockford, MTX, etc...I dabbled in SQ and went to a few IASCA events, the DB drags always looked fun and expensive! I have a friend who runs a high end shop in Minnesota and keeps me connected to what is new.

I always wanted to try SQ but never could quite get my head around it. Screwing around with the RTA and trying to tune things for SQ drove me nuts!

DB Drag on the other hand was really fun! We ran one setup for awhile in Street C that consisted of 4 Autotek MM3000s(at 1/4ohm each for burbs)and 1 18” RE MT. It was AMAZING what that 1 18 would do. No one in the tri-state area could touch us. We were cooking coils and having to recone every other run but it was a blast!

 

[Peabody]

You guys have got me itching now. I am leaning heavy towards a 5 channel amp and 10" sub in a smallish sealed box.

 

[LX470Beast]

Yeah, I’m probably gonna need some advice when I actually go to make a decision. It’s been awhile for me. Back in the late 90s-mid 2000s I was pretty big in to car audio. I even ran a small shop for a few years. I had a DB Drag team that did pretty well for a few seasons. We even came in 2nd in Street C at Spring Break Nationals in Daytona one year(lost by .1db!!!) It’s a amazing how that seems so far-off/unreal now. I bet if I started messing with things again it would come back real quick though(kinda scared of that).

I used to run Precision Power Art series back in the day. That big class AB A1200 was a beast. And so beautiful. They just don’t make em like that anymore(and rightfully so, that thing was power hungry). I guess the new class Ds are where it’s at.

View attachment 1768346

Oh, BTW those cheese curds were awesome. We snacked on them all the way home from Silverton

Interesting.... I still use those amps to this day. I used them in sound quality car back in the early nineties (also an IASCA winner). I currently have A600 and A404 on 04 LX and 13 ISF, A606 on my 76 FJ and 14 RX350 and Spare A606, A600 A404 on my cabinet which was pulled from 12 LS when I sold it. At one point I swapped my amps to XTants but I ended up going back to PPI.

Here is the build on my LX

Successfully Moved Navigation Screen To Make Room Pioneer AVIC-8200

 

[ga12r1]

Interesting.... I still use those amps to this day. I used them in sound quality car back in the early nineties (also an IASCA winner). I currently have A600 and A404 on 04 LX and 13 ISF, A606 on my 76 FJ and 14 RX350 and Spare A606, A600 A404 on my cabinet which was pulled from 12 LS when I sold it. At one point I swapped my amps to XTants but I ended up going back to PPI.

Here is the build on my LX

Successfully Moved Navigation Screen To Make Room Pioneer AVIC-8200

Man that's awesome! I was a huge PPI fanboy until they started going downhill after the Power Class amps. I sold all of my Art Series to make the move to Power Class and those were some awesome amps too. The PC2350 that took the place of the A1200 was just as beautiful in its own way. They made some awesome signal processors too. The PAR-245 1/2 din in dash EQ with selectable center EQ bands and selectable Q value was probably one of my favorite pieces ever, no matter my amp/speaker setup I used one of those for 10 years. Man I miss that stuff.

 

[jhamby]

I have the radio that is tied in with the AC, so I have a flip out screen installed right under the factory screen. All new wiring run to a Kenwood 5 channel amp in the rear, Focal speakers in all the doors, and a 6" subwoofer in the factory location.

The Focal's are great, but I will eventually upgrade to a 10" sub and a larger amp.

 

[SmoothLC]

I put a 10" sub box in the rear cargo area powered by a digital amp.

Sounds great combined with Focal amp, speakers and tweeters.

The only sad thing is the head unit.

 

[fblainen11]

Pioneer gm-d9605 is what I have. It is a 5 channel amp.
I have it in my vehicle. Have not had any issues with it. I've had it for 2 years now and recommend it for the price.

You need to match the Watt output to the speakers. So you'll want speakers that handle similar or slightly lower RMS than the amp outputs. I have Infinity Kappa 6.5" coaxial speakers in my doors.

It is no JL Audio amp, but it works great for someone like me that wants to hear decent sounding music, but not a big audiophile.

 

[suprarx7nut]

I just did part 1 of my "big" audio upgrade recently. Part 1 was high end speakers, a DSP amp, new wiring throughout and interior sound deadening. Part 2 will be larger/better sound quality sub and full door treatment.

Here's my take:

1. You need a dedicated sub. Don't do under-seat.
2. Those speakers are going to be your next weakest link. Instead of amping them, upgrade speakers and amp the new speakers.
3. Sound deadening goes a long ways.
4. Focus on the front stage.

Like Scott said, you need a sub. Nothing comes close to replicating what a sub can do. Without one, you're missing a large portion of your music. Give up the cargo space and get a proper sub. If cargo space is really important you could pay a shop ~$500 or so to build a nice box in the factory location and modify the interior trim.

Those Kenwood speakers will be better than OEM for sound quality, but probably by a very small margin. You could get MUCH better quality out of a $100 pair. Go demo some stuff at an audio shop if you can and focus on clarity. I found there to be a huge difference in quality once you break into the $100-150 price range and then again once you get to $300-500. I extended my budget quite a bit after hearing the difference and I couldn't be happier.

Sound deadening the doors will give you a bunch more mid-bass, but still no sub-bass. It's no replacement for the sub, but it should make the low end tighter and more accurate. It's a very good value investment since ~$20-50 in material and an afternoon can make a big difference.

I'm a huge proponent of running front speakers ONLY. My rears are disconnected entirely and I've got a pair of nice fronts run off an amp. When I go to a concert, I face the band and the sound is in front of me. I think it should be the same in your car. If you have extra money and tuning time, sure, add in the rears. If budget or time is a concern, forget the rear altogether and buy nicer equipment for the front.

My current equipment:
Head Unit: Pioneer AVH3700 - was the best of the "lower end" stuff a few years ago
Front Speakers: Morel Virtus 602
Front Amp: Audio Control D-4.800 running the Morel speakers "active" meaning I control the timing and EQ of the tweeters separate from the mid-drivers
Sub: Alpine 8" Type R (soon to be two 10" Focals)
Sub Amp: Alpine MRV500 (soon to be JL500/1 monoblock)
Sound Deadening: Floor: Dynamat/CCF/MLV; Quarters/ceiling: Dynamat/Hydrophobic Melamine Foam; Doors: nothing yet - ran out of time


My recent speaker upgrade has been phenomenal, but the sub addition years ago was the real turning point. There's just no "sub"stitute for a subwoofer.

Good luck!

 

[KillerBox]

In my opinion, a properly tuned DSP has made the biggest difference in Car Audio in the past 20 years. With my DSP, I have the widest soundstage that I have ever had. The musicians sound like they are sitting past my windshield! In the 1990s, I never heard anything close even with the Factory built demo cars!

Other than that, there are some full range Class D amps that are great sounding. The old school amps sure looked nicer and clipped smoother but, now I don't have to worry about my amps overheating even after running full tilt for hours at a time! And I only have about 2" clearance between the amps and the 3rd row seat backs.

You can see how close the amps are here: Pic heavy stereo build & wanted to share it in case it helps someone in the future

 

[Peabody]

I ended up ordering this kit from Crutchfield for right now. But a lot like @suprarx7nut said, I will eventually upgrade the fronts before I do anything else.

 

[Ayune]

So, at the beginning of summer I upgraded the tired old OEM system for a new Kenwood DDX375BT in-dash, and Kenwood KFC-1666S speakers in all four doors. Nothing over the top or expensive, but not just crap either. After the install I noticed that there was little to no bass with the upgrade. So, I figured I would play with the EQ a little bit, and decided to give the speakers a decent break in period. After a few months, not much has gotten better (big surprise, I know!).

Here are the options I've come up with:
1. add a powered sub (or some kind of slim-mount sub and box) under one of the front seats and hope it's enough.
2. add a 5 channel amp - powering the four door speakers and a subwoofer, to be mounted somewhere in the back.

I'm just not sure that those speakers are worth putting an amplifier on. Any thoughts or suggestions?

Can you give any update on how the Kenwood head unit is working out? Thanks.