Are Toyota CV / Double Cardan Joints Rebuildable? (1 Viewer)

[John Smith]

Has anyone here sucessfully rebuilt a Toyota DC/CV joint?

I am running a shortened front CV driveshaft from a 85 Toyota Mini in the rear of my 40. The CV end started getting sloppy on the way home from GSMTR, whack, whack, whack. I was lucky to make it home.

Anyway, I am finding conflicting info on rebuilding the Toyota CV joint. Some people claim you need "special" tools to work on the CV that only driveline shops have. Others claim it is hard to get the CV parts unless you are a driveline shop. While others claim it is so expensive to repair the Toyota CV that you are better off just buying a new shaft. Real world stories please.

 

[Mace]

new Toy shaft is typically $40..

The CV's are rebuildable, and it is not technically complicated, but it is a PITA physicaly.

Plus, the rebuild parts are expensive!

Call Cdan and get prices..

 

[dgangle]

sure they can

Sure they can...a big PITA. I would make sure you can find someone that knows how, has done it and knows what they are getting themselves into. Nothing worse than buying all the parts ($$???) and having your buddy or seemingly knowledgeable local heavy duty truck driveline shop call you and tell you to pick up a 5 gallon bucket of parts that they either broke or cannot figure out how to fix. I would recommend someone mini-truck or Land Cruiser specific that has done it before.

I consider myself able to fix just about anything. Maybe I was having a bad day but I butchered one of these things to hell and back and ended up throwing it all in the trash and buying another driveshaft.


Here's the parts:
http://www.rockforddriveline.com/toyota.pdf

Here's the procedure:
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/cvmod

 

[John Smith]

Update!

I decided to tear apart my CV driveshaft after reading the link dgangle posted above by Eric B. http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/cvmod
I was interested to find out what exactly failed on my driveshaft before I made a decision to rebuild or not. It turns out that my hunch was right and my CV Ball Seat was toast. There were zero needle bearings in the ball seat.
So I decided to fully disassemble the joint. In the pictures below you can see the ball seat in various stages as I take it apart. What you can't see is the spring that is captured in the flange on the ground. When the joint failed it rounded the stud on the flange and captured the spring. When I post pictures of the repair parts it will become more clear.

 

[John Smith]

Here are the repair parts from NAPA. They are Federal Mogul / Precision Universal Joint brand. 613 = ball seat repair kit 623 = flange. Note: There are two different sizes of Toyota truck CV joint and you must measure your CV joint as I show below to make sure you get the correct parts. Mine is the smaller of the two CVs and it came from a 85 Toyota minitruck. You measure between the center of the two ujoints. Mine measures 2.813" between the yokes and the ball stud is .467"OD The ball stud it what the spring is sitting in below. The red plastic thing is holding the needle bearings in the ball seat. Because this flange is for a 85 minitruck I am going to have to drill out the driveshaft bolt flange holes just like I had to on the original to mate up to the LC transfer case output pattern.

 

[John Smith]

Can anyone with a Toyota truck CV shaft verify if you have this hole under the ball seat? I am tempted to weld it shut before I install the new seat. It seems to me that all it does is allow grease to escape before it pumps into the ball seat which I believe is what caused the failure to begin with.

 

[John Smith]

The disassembly process was no worse than dealing with a normal ujoint. A press would make the process very easy but I used the vise, socket, and BFH route since I don't own a press... Yet.

The parts came from Napaonline.com and I did find the Rockford link useful. It told me the parts are out there other than OEM. I drilled out the flange and am now waiting for the new ujoints for the CV to arrive.

 

[dgangle]

Cool. Please keep us posted, especially on the re-instal.

 

[awp_cruiser]

I think I might have created a similar situation. I finally got my rig on the road after a long down time build. New CV drivelines front and rear. I pulled the rear slip apart to confirm I had a spare end. When I put it back together I got the splines one off and didn't realize it. I noticed a vibration and some binding on the test runs. I narrowed it to the DL, pulled it and fixed the phasing. I am wondering if I need to dissasemble and check that I didn't FUBAR that pin and bearings.

What were the symptoms you had that indicated the failure? Binding and vibration? It's not like the "clunk" that indicates bad u-joints is it? Could you physically wiggle the DL while it was attached with the bearings gone?

Thanks,

Andy

 

[John Smith]

:Warning - long post:

Well, the answer to my original question is YES! you can rebuild your Toyota CV joint but it is not going to be easy...

A little background: The week of CMCC I was rushing to put my truck together to make the event. The main projects were install the new ARB locked diff in the rear and rebuild this driveshaft. I got the ARB done but the driveshaft shafted me and I missed the event.

I have only replaced ujoints in the field when they have failed. I have had great luck with a flat rock, two sockets, and a 5 pound sledge. I have replaced the joints on three shafts this way with ease. So I figured that I could use the same method with the CV joint in my garage. Wrong!

While you can use the field repair method on a regular u-joint it does not work as well on the Toyota CV joint. I somehow managed to get to the last joint on the CV (the one that holds the transfercase flange) before disaster struck. I realized I forgot to put the new spring in the ball seat.

When I removed the outer ujoint to put the spring in the ball seat I found not only had I broken a few needle bearings in one of the joint caps but I had also broken several needle bearings in the ball seat. At that point I knew I was screwed and would not be making CMCC.

What caused the needle bearing carnage you ask? As a result of my pounding the joint cap into the CV ear a few needle bearings fell out of position and were broken when the ujoint cross was driven home. With a normal ujoint you can hold the cross into a cap and seat it then slide it over to hold the needle bearings into the other cap while you pound it home. You would think you can do the same with the CV, but the ball seat, and CV ears conspire against you to make this almost impossible.

So after ruining $80 something worth of parts I decided I would take one more try at the rebuild before sending the shaft to a driveline place for repair. The first thing I did was buy a 12 ton press. I always wanted a press and now I had a reason to buy one. I knew if I tried the "field repair" method again I would end up with the same result.

I found a cheaper source than NAPA for the ball seat repair kit. www.rockauto.com has it for $32.79 and sells the Precision CV ujoint number 513 for 18.84. The Precision number for the regular (nonCV) joint that goes on the other end of the shaft is 387 at $13.21 from RockAuto.

Some ujoint observations. They are not all created equally! I initially bought a Neapco brand 11612 joint, same as 387 Precision part for the non-cv end replacement. This Neapco joint was made in China and featured the zirk fitting in between the cross. This means when installed, you can not grease the ujoint!!! Needless to say that joint was returned to AdvanceAuto. The Precision joints were all Made in USA and had the zirk fittings in the proper locations.

Fast forward to last Friday.

After the CV kept me from CMCC I did not set foot in the garage for a week or so. I spent many late nights trying to get ready for CMCC and needed a break from the truck. In the downtime I got my 12 ton press from Harbor Freight and got it assembled. For the $118 I am not going to complain about the quality. It does what it was built for well enough for my limited use.

I finished with work and headed to the garage for one last try on the CV. The new ball seat I had just installed had to come out. The ball came out almost as easy as the original but the race/seat was a different matter. It was not going to budge and I had to use a Dremel to cut the race before I could remove it. I did not own a Dremel but always wanted one and now had a reason to buy one. There are some positives to DIY.

Once the old ball seat was out I installed the second new one using the original race to install it just like the first one. Save the original Toyota ball seat race!!! Now I just had to install the last ujoint and not screw it up this time. This is where the press was worth every $. I pressed the ujoint into the flange with such ease I actually had to laugh. Why had I not bought a press years ago?

I did not forget the spring in the ball seat this time either. With a press this job went from a huge PITA to pretty damn easy. I decided to weld up the hole below the ball seat. I believe this is what caused the ball seat failure in the first place by not allowing grease to be forced into the ball seat.

In the pictures below you can see where I welded up the hole, then the new ball seat installed and finally the finished driveshaft. All joints replaced and ready for the trails. Bottom line: If you want to try your hand at rebuilding your CV joint I would not even attempt it unless you own a press or have access to one. I hope this helps someone in the future.

 

[John Smith]

Andy, when my CV ball seat went I was on the highway and thought I had a flat tire. Pulled over, checked all the tires, nope none flat. I actually shook the driveshaft thinking it was a ujoint but the shaft felt tight. Once it got worse on the drive I knew it was the CV as it went "whack, whack, whack" as you got on or off the gas. At a constant speed it was fine but change it and whack, whack, whack. By the time I got home there was a ton of play in the shaft and it was obvious the CV was gone. You could push and pull the shaft while on the truck back and forth.

 

[Mace]

BTW, there is a significant difference in U joint strengths between OEM and aftermarket U joints. I have to think that the aftermarket CV joints are teh same.

When possible, go with OEM joints..

 

[cruiser_guy]

It looks like I'll need to do mine in the BJ60 when I get back from my trip to Belize for New Years. Any offroad is going to have to be gentle and in 2wd if possible!

John, can you post part numbers for ALL the parts you needed as well as any online sources?

Does anyone know the actual manufacturer of these parts? It's obviously NOT Napa or Rockauto but is it Koyo or another bearing manufacturer? Here in Guatemala I can get automotive bearings easier and cheaper direct from Koyo!!

 

[dgangle]

I gotta better one.


John,
If I ship you my two double cardan drive shafts, will you rebuild the the DC's only for me? If so how much?

 

[cruiser_guy]

Has anyone tried running the Koyo numbers stamped on the caps of the spiders?

I'm going to see if they work here at the Koyo dealer.

I found a used joint in Guatemala City today and got it put on my shaft for under $100 including the joint.

 

[Hugh Heifer]

FYI.
There is a small rubber plug that goes into the hole that John welded closed. I believe it is there to allow excess grease to escape when applying it with a gun.

 

[DTCsk8er]

I'm in the process of rebuilding my mini truck dual cardan joint. That hole that is under the centering ball had a rubber plug in it, and it made removing the race (after the ball shot across the shop when I removed it) doable with a small punch bent and inserted through it. I would not suggest welding it shut, otherwise removal of that race will be very difficult.

 

[John Smith]

I'm in the process of rebuilding my mini truck dual cardan joint. That hole that is under the centering ball had a rubber plug in it, and it made removing the race (after the ball shot across the shop when I removed it) doable with a small punch bent and inserted through it. I would not suggest welding it shut, otherwise removal of that race will be very difficult.

Wow, old thread revival! And you are correct; don't do what I did and weld that little hole shut or you will push the excess grease past the little black seal also. This rebuilt driveshaft held up for another 7 years before the CV wore out again. Instead of rebuilding it again, I got a new shaft and this is now my trail spare.

 

[DTCsk8er]

Yeah, I saw the info out there, and figured I would add some more to it.

I need to source a new driveshaft as a reserve one of these days, after this one is rebuilt.

 

[upper]

Hi everyone, I´m having hard times with my 3” lifted HJ61 front CV cardan. I assumed that the CV-joint needs new U-joints, so I took the cardan away and took it apart. Now it seems that CV-joint needs more spares than just a CV Ball kit and U-joints – only the H-part of the CV-joint OK. Actually it looks like previous owner has tried some DIY fix for the same problem.

Replacing CV-joint isn´t problem in a dedicated drive line shop nearby. However, I have found very difficult to find replacement parts for the Toyota CV-joint. Rockford Driveline has complete CV Head Assembly in their catalog (item #421), but I can´t find a single place where to buy them. I have contacted Rockford via email, but haven´t got any answer. I tried the NAPA Auto parts, but the webstore isn´t open European customers. Can anyone help me finding a replacement joint assy?