Anyone running custom swaybars?

[strictlyRUM]

I've all ready messaged @jcardona1 but want to hear from anyone else that is running an antirock or home brew setup. I've been studying sway bar theory and design during my break. I've read engineer to win and done some metallurgical freshening up. I plan to make a custom antirock style sway bar and just wanted to get some feedback from guys actually running or tried them. I am doing some calculations to figure out a dual rate setup so if you have experience with running one than your input is especially valuable. Like, dislike, bar diameters and lengths. These are the things that I am mostly interested in.

Thanks

Jason

 

[shocktower]

Have you made one yet ? I'm curious, because on a Cummings swap they get close to the oil pan

 

[strictlyRUM]

Nope haven't made one yet. Just planning right now. That is the beauty of making your own. You could fit it however you want.

 

[LandCruisinMy93]

Better hurry up with that! I'm not waiting around for forever you know!

 

[shocktower]

Well I do have 2 places where, I could make/machine, I just do not know what the diameter would/should be, maybe a little info on the size, I can have a spline on the ends or just square

 

[strictlyRUM]

The further you are away from the axle it goes up by ^4. So depending on where you want it will depend on the diameter of the bar. If you are too far away to use a presplined axle shaft that will work or a premade torsion bar than you can just get a piece of mild steel and fab one up. You can weld the arms on or weld a flange to attach the arms depending on mounting design. The elasticity modulus of steel is very close from 1018(mild) up to 4340. The only thing is axles and torsion bars are hardoned on the ends where they are splined. This is only for the splines to be hardoned since they are the weak link. Mild steel with welded arms will yield or twist at nearly the same torsional rate as any hardoned shaft. The stock sway bar can be measured to give you a base or control. The shape has nearly zero effect on the torsional rate either. It is pretty dang simple actually. On a dual rate you would have a smaller shaft inside a larger tube with double arms. One of which is pinned to the other when on the street and the pin can be removed effectively removing the outside tube from the equation running only your lighter anti"rock" setting. This makes it possible to have a very streetworthy truck that can turn into a tunable offroad machine. The ability to "tune out" some rear will allow you to force the front to flex which will inturn try and keep the entire truck "flat."

One thing I wanted to note. The lifting of our vehicles puts the sway bar at a different angle than stock or what should be 90* to the direction of travel. When you rotate the sway bar down you are not only taking it out of the perpendicular motion in which the stock torsional rate was calculated for but you are also moving the torque arm further away radially. So in less dorky terms..... You could be reducing the actual anti-role rate by as much as half.

 

[inkpot]

Most of us that lift our rigs much also increase the length of the drop link. Would that not bring the anti roll rate back close to original?

 

[jcardona1]

Jason -

Just replied to your PM. Definitely interested to see what you come up with. Unless I missed it, did you mention if this was for the front or rear? I have already started on a sway bar project for the rear using Ruff Stuff's kit. I only bought the bar so far. Still need to buy the rest of the parts. Here's some copy/paste from my build thread to help with the discussion:

THE SWAYBAR PROJECT

I think it's about time sombody tried this on an 80! Just placed the order with RuffStuff while they have their 20% sale going. Started by ordering just the swaybar. I will be getting the truck weighed and will drive to their shop to get the final specs worked out in person (these are built to order and custom-tuned individually). This will be a rear application. With the 3 link in front I can see no easy way to fit a swaybar up there so I'm going to try to improve the rear setup as the stock bar is bent to s***, limits flex and feels like it doesn't help on the freeway.

This is no doubt extreme overkill with a price to match. Even Dan says these aren't intended for the average weekend wheeler but I need something better and there are no off-the-shelf solutions which will work for me.

As you can see, NO room here:

Even less after hydro assist

Plenty of room back here. I could either run the bar in front of the axle (inside the upper link crossmember) or behind where there's even more room:

Some pics for reference

 

[jcardona1]

Here's what I was picturing for the front swaybar at a future point in time. Somebody tell me how stupid this is. I don't even know if this would work, just an idea I had this morning. Would need to verify if the upper link would interfere during articulation. But in my mind it seems like it would work.

So, run a splined swaybar through the frame, right in between the oil pan and the transmission housing. Looks like there's just enough room. This would be above driveshaft, not below as it looks like in the photo. This would be tucked right into the engine bay.

The links would attach to the lower control arms instead of the axle like so:

Similar to other setups I've seen. Anybody have some input? Probably not the most ideal setup, but something is better than nothing right?

 

[jcardona1]

After a 3 month wait my custom sway bar shaft finally arrived! Now to put it in the garage and add it to the ever-growing list of projects. I still need to order the sway bar "kit" and arms so I'll wait for their next big sale.

I knew RuffStuff had their shafts machined by another shop but didn't who it was. Now I know, Kick Ass Offroad!

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

We used Sway-a-way products back in the day on our race truck
Off-Road Sway Bars - Sway-A-Way | Racing Technology

 

[strictlyRUM]

Sorry guys I have been snowed in with my two boys so I havent had too much time to do anything but entertain them. So yes @inkpot we do drop them but not usually the same amount as the lift itself. Some is better than none. I just dropped both mine to go from "WHOA WHOA WHOA" as the boys said the first corner I took them around, to just a lifted bus feel. I have to drive very defensively so as not to put myself in a quick maneuver because I dont trust it. I have comp front springs and Js out back. I am running a "heavy" valved set of 14" travel shocks on extended mounts. I never spent much time in it before I did all this so it has taken some getting used to. So that is my desire behind this. My wife has fallen in love with the thing (after cussing it for two years as it has been rebuilt bottom to top). I want to make it a bit "safer" on the road.

My thoughts on placement------

It is so open to where you want to put it if you weren't married to the bar. Of coarse in @jcardona1 case, we are going to have to get a little bit creative or lucky as to where it will "work." It is one thing to throw up a bar with 5 holes in it and make one work, but what we ideally want is to get the math correct so if we have 5 holes the correct one is the one in the center. That way you can have three "settings" for different time of year or loaded or unloaded.... Whatever you see where I am going. I think you can get a bit further up toward the front of you truck and end up with a 15"ish arm and be at a amount of control or tune for the rocks. Like you were saying to get the back to work a bit more which will actually make your truck sit more level as it applied the correct amount at the correct places. I dont think we could make it a street racer up that far but it would be a more "antirock" offroad bar.

Edit to add link attachment: I dont see why you idea of mounting it on the link wouldnt work? You would want to have the arm on the SB to be parallel to you link though. This would give it a perpendicular force vector to your SB arm at all times. It may even a bit better just for that fact. It would be a much more linear pull instead of all the angles changing when the attachment is the axle. The only thing is the amount of force you would be subjecting the link to. At possibly the worst place to put it. Right in the center of your links length. You would definitely want to reinforce that section but it could be done nicely. With a saddle or cradle piece that was a pinch connection on the heim that connected the SB arm and the link.

As for the back..... I am wanting to keep it in front and as tight to axle as I can. ONLY because I am thinking next summer may be a rear tank and transverse mounted cantilever C/O setup.

Jason

 

[jcardona1]

Sorry guys I have been snowed in with my two boys so I havent had too much time to do anything but entertain them. So yes @inkpot we do drop them but not usually the same amount as the lift itself. Some is better than none. I just dropped both mine to go from "WHOA WHOA WHOA" as the boys said the first corner I took them around, to just a lifted bus feel. I have to drive very defensively so as not to put myself in a quick maneuver because I dont trust it. I have comp front springs and Js out back. I am running a "heavy" valved set of 14" travel shocks on extended mounts. I never spent much time in it before I did all this so it has taken some getting used to. So that is my desire behind this. My wife has fallen in love with the thing (after cussing it for two years as it has been rebuilt bottom to top). I want to make it a bit "safer" on the road.

My thoughts on placement------

It is so open to where you want to put it if you weren't married to the bar. Of coarse in @jcardona1 case, we are going to have to get a little bit creative or lucky as to where it will "work." It is one thing to throw up a bar with 5 holes in it and make one work, but what we ideally want is to get the math correct so if we have 5 holes the correct one is the one in the center. That way you can have three "settings" for different time of year or loaded or unloaded.... Whatever you see where I am going. I think you can get a bit further up toward the front of you truck and end up with a 15"ish arm and be at a amount of control or tune for the rocks. Like you were saying to get the back to work a bit more which will actually make your truck sit more level as it applied the correct amount at the correct places. I dont think we could make it a street racer up that far but it would be a more "antirock" offroad bar.

Edit to add link attachment: I dont see why you idea of mounting it on the link wouldnt work? You would want to have the arm on the SB to be parallel to you link though. This would give it a perpendicular force vector to your SB arm at all times. It may even a bit better just for that fact. It would be a much more linear pull instead of all the angles changing when the attachment is the axle. The only thing is the amount of force you would be subjecting the link to. At possibly the worst place to put it. Right in the center of your links length. You would definitely want to reinforce that section but it could be done nicely. With a saddle or cradle piece that was a pinch connection on the heim that connected the SB arm and the link.

As for the back..... I am wanting to keep it in front and as tight to axle as I can. ONLY because I am thinking next summer may be a rear tank and transverse mounted cantilever C/O setup.

Jason

Bump?

 

[strictlyRUM]

Actually......... I was thinking of doing the rear this weekend possibly. I put 2.5" kings on the back and changed out the skinny front for the thicker front and I feel pretty good now. It still is overcoming the rear sway and unloading a bit in the apex of tight hard corners. I am going to throw a simple single stage sway in the rear to see if I can take that out of it. We bought a M1101 trailer that I am building a little expo trailer out of. So now I am wanting more sway control..... But.... without the turbo I doubt I will get over 30mph. So I should be fine?

 

[jcardona1]

Actually......... I was thinking of doing the rear this weekend possibly. I put 2.5" kings on the back and changed out the skinny front for the thicker front and I feel pretty good now. It still is overcoming the rear sway and unloading a bit in the apex of tight hard corners. I am going to throw a simple single stage sway in the rear to see if I can take that out of it. We bought a M1101 trailer that I am building a little expo trailer out of. So now I am wanting more sway control..... But.... without the turbo I doubt I will get over 30mph. So I should be fine?

Looking forward to see what you come up with! I need to hurry up and order the rest of the parts from RuffStuff so I can finish the rear sway bar on mine.

 

[DylanICON]

The further you are away from the axle it goes up by ^4. .

SB arm length is ^2
bar diameter is ^4
bar length is ^1

If you mount it to a control arm the ratio of where it is on the arm would also be ^2 as another K factor multiplier
Also if you change the width of where its mounted on the axle there is another ratio of mounting width that is also ^2

on big issue with the stock bars for driving feel as these trucks get older is the looseness on center from the cumulative slop in the rubber parts