Annual lecture on rollover danger

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fj803fe said:
I have been driving this way for 4 years-no caster correction. I think it "basically boils down to" driving safely in the vehicle at hand.
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Had you been in the accident Doug describes, driving safely with an unsafely-modified rig like yours (lift with no caster correction) might have done you in. Another vehicle tapped her left rear at highway speeds and, as Doug said, even a trained driver might not have been able to handle it. At that point, keeping your vehicle with as-close-to-stock-as-possible suspension geometry would improve your odds. Driving safely in an improperly modified vehicle would not.
 
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If anyone was up in the North east today they know we had some bad weather in MA. I left early today to make my appointment close to on time. While travelling West on I90 a vehicle came up fast on my left side. This was the high speed lane and is typically more snow covered than the other two as fewer people drive in it. Mr. Invincible got to about my left rear tire and suddenly disappeared! All I saw in the rear view was rotating strobe of head lights and brake lights. Hope this wingnut didn't ruin somebody's day.
 
dealmaker said:
If my kids ( 2 yr. old girl and 6 month old son) and their seats weren't properly strapped, they would've probably been ejected.
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Sooo good to hear. I cant say how important it is to get children’s car seats buckled in correctly. If you are not sure about yours, contact your local fire department and ask if someone can show you the proper way for them to be installed. When you get done putting them in right you should feel like you just finished a few reps at the gym. Good links are located here. http://www.car-safety.org/links2.html


Cages. Yes they help, but they are only the LAST line of defense in a roll over. All the points brought up in this thread should be put in place or considered first. Rollovers on the street are the spookiest, even with a cage bad things happen. (Yes I have street rolled a Cruiser) Remember our bodies can only decelerate so fast. Cages can only perform to a point.

Also think about the loose stuff in your rig. A Hi-Lift, tools, spare parts etc. are not what you want airborne in your truck in any accident.

Mark
 
re_guderian said:
There's always that "one scenario" where even the perfect protection won't work. You just gotta play the odds.
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If you play the odds, the latest on SUV safety says their safer than cars (see the latest 4 Wheeler mag). Course, I'm guessing alot of that has to do with more SUV's on the road being car based like my wife's CRV - which is classed as a SUV, but I consider it to be a tall stationwagon or a stylish mini-van.
 
helocat said:
Also think about the loose stuff in your rig. A Hi-Lift, tools, spare parts etc. are not what you want airborne in your truck in any accident.

Mark
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That's part of why I keep my dogs behind a barrier - less likely that they will become projectiles that kill me, my wife, or my upcoming child.
 
alaskacruiser said:
Had you been in the accident Doug describes, driving safely with an unsafely-modified rig like yours (lift with no caster correction) might have done you in. Another vehicle tapped her left rear at highway speeds and, as Doug said, even a trained driver might not have been able to handle it. At that point, keeping your vehicle with as-close-to-stock-as-possible suspension geometry would improve your odds. Driving safely in an improperly modified vehicle would not.
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?????????? :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

fj803fe said:
Not saying it is not a valid point
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Did you somehow miss this???? Shall we :shotts: some more?

In the end, I will decide what is and what is not safe on my vehicles, but thank you for your concern.:D :D
 
fj803fe said:
In the end, I will decide what is and what is not safe on my vehicles, but thank you for your concern.:D :D
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Unfortunately, there are a bunch of people out there with the same oppinion. Be they Jeepers, or lowriders, or ricer racers. They will take the responsibility for deciding what they feel is a safe modification to their car (like the lowriders stretching too small tires, on too large of rim, with too low a weight rating). But, will they take responsibility when their modifications are the cause of someone else's death? (notice I'm using the pronoun "they" not "you" - to address a large group of people in the U.S., not you specifically - I make no assumptions to know what you will and will not take responsibility for)

My concern when I modify my vehicles, is for the safety of my family, and the liability should I be at fault in an accident. My concern when other people modify their vehicles isn't for their safety, it's for the safety of my family. I don't want some guy in a F-250 with 44's and stock brakes rear ending me cause he decided it was safe enough for him to have a 300ft stopping distance. Should people think not only of their own safety when modifying a vehicle, but others as well? It would be the responsible thing to do. But hey, we live in the US, the land of the free - free of responsibility.
 
Walking Eagle said:
Unfortunately, there are a bunch of people out there with the same oppinion. Be they Jeepers, or lowriders, or ricer racers. They will take the responsibility for deciding what they feel is a safe modification to their car (like the lowriders stretching too small tires, on too large of rim, with too low a weight rating). But, will they take responsibility when their modifications are the cause of someone else's death? (notice I'm using the pronoun "they" not "you" - to address a large group of people in the U.S., not you specifically - I make no assumptions to know what you will and will not take responsibility for)

My concern when I modify my vehicles, is for the safety of my family, and the liability should I be at fault in an accident. My concern when other people modify their vehicles isn't for their safety, it's for the safety of my family. I don't want some guy in a F-250 with 44's and stock brakes rear ending me cause he decided it was safe enough for him to have a 300ft stopping distance. Should people think not only of their own safety when modifying a vehicle, but others as well? It would be the responsible thing to do. But hey, we live in the US, the land of the free - free of responsibility.
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I can understand this...My 80 is modified and used as a DD-I use regularly 100 series front pads and have teaked the LPBV to provide "stock" response rear braking, my DD includes oil rig roads and dirt county roads at 35 mph, with some two way highways in between. My BJ60 had a hack job shackle reversal, poor tie-rod ends, and the sway bar was not attached upn purchase. I drove it home, replaced all spring bushings, tie-rod ends, fabbed some connectors for the sway bar, did brakes, birfs, rear axle seals, and lubed er up. She gets the same driving as the 80 (So I guess both are DDs). Our 100 is fitted with OME torsion bars-for lift? No, to stabilize the front end roll, to improve brake response, and handling in turns. Every bolt, nut, etc, etc is at factory spec on every LC I own. WHY??? I am a freak about safety! I feel safe in my 80, safe in my BJ, and my 9 mo. old rides safe with Mom in the 100...:D But, as you said-you don;t know what the "other guy" has done.

In that sense-you do what you can for the safety of "you and yours"-but, true safety is caring for the safety of others, insomuch as you and your family's safety and well being is the final result.
 
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I don't doubt the rollover potential of my 80.

My purely subjective "feeling" of it's stability since adding 2.5" OME Heavies, a bumper, a winch, and some 295/75/16 tires is that its center of gravity is obviously higher, but it "feels" more stable on the road (stiffer springs, "stiffer" tires).

Not sure of the actual quantitative difference between a lower, squishier stock setup and a taller, firmer modded setup.

I'm telling myself that I probably have better immediate control of the truck now, but I'm now closer to the threshold of the rollover point.

My +2.5" ~33.5" tire perfect caster 80 hits the sweet spot for me, but I certainly recognize the downsides and risks to even these moderate modifications. Picked up the inlaws at the airport for the holidays, and mom-in-law was not quite 100% excited about climbing into the back seat. Nex mod: Rubbermaid stool.

Drive aware, slow, and safe.

Hayes
 
Walking Eagle said:
Should people think not only of their own safety when modifying a vehicle, but others as well? It would be the responsible thing to do. But hey, we live in the US, the land of the free - free of responsibility.
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My point exactly, Walking Eagle.

fj803fe- much like the cheap-modded f350s on 44s I see driving down the road, your improperly-modded (lifted, no caster correction) 80 may be "safe enough for you", but how about others on the road? You seem to ignore that aspect of it. You acknowledge that it is a valid point, but respond that you are "driving safely". If it is a valid point, are you acknowledging that your lack of caster correction is unsafe, but saying it is "good enough for you"? If anyone should be confused, it is people reading your posts. :confused: :confused: :confused:
 
its like a car wreck or a reallly overweight (think junk's Momma) woman in a bikini. You just have to sneak a look here and there.......
Dave
 
PHAEDRUS said:
its like a car wreck or a reallly overweight (think junk's Momma) woman in a bikini. You just have to sneak a look here and there.......
Dave
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hummm.... junk's momma in a bikini......
 
IdahoDoug said:
The only qualification he added (interestingly) was that it can't be done so easily if the vehicle has Stability Control (the braking system that applies the brakes) and possibly not at all with SC.

SUVs roll and the average Joe has no real concept how easy they are to roll.


DougM
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Doug,
I agree with you there. I have experienced VSC often and you can even use it as another "tool in the toolbox" offroad. It does make it very hard to bring the rear end out of sorts (which is a good thing). I have never had it activate on road though (I'm a "casual" driver).

There are definitely different risks in SUV's but I think you have to be sensible about it and not get caught up in any hysteria about something being unsafe (in general, not directed at you Doug). It's a slippery slope- for example, someone driving new IFS cars all their life may feel a SFA (anything) is unsafe. Recirc ball steering may feel unsafe to someone used to R&P. Does that mean it is? IMO, definitely not. Alot of what feels safe has to do with driver experience imo.

what is safe? Well I think the 80 is very safe and well made. Maybe ask what is safER. That is the advantage new vehicles have- the knowledge and focus on passenger safety not existant 10 yrs ago.
Curtain airbags, beefier pillars, VSC, dual sensor ABS, EBFD, etc
All of that makes it safER on the street. Does that make an older SUV UNsafe by default? I don't think so at all.
Also, FZJ80's have the advantage of being made sans the desposible vehicle mentality in auto production today. That may/may not be important or relavent to you.

I really think the focus needs to be driving habits when talking about safety.

The downside to vehicle advancement is that a new $20,000 sedan has a performance envelope only available to expensive sports cars in the past. People drive MUCH faster and more aggressively, which brings those safety advancements into much more need than in the past.
When someone says a stock 80 is dangerous and unsafe to drive, it makes me feel that there is def. some hysteria going on.

jmho
 
same accident, different car

My wife was driving our 89 535i doing 70mph on the freeway and was hit in the left rear of the car. She spun sideways off the road and then the car flipped once it hit the shoulders. She walked away from this crash, thank God!!
535i-1 smaller size.webp
 
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I like how the Bimmer handled that crash - typical of a high end German make. They do the research and that photo is the result of proper attention to roof structure, body strength and fuel system integrity (no evidence of fire). Glad to hear it ended well.

DougM
 
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