Air filter Alert, Alert, Alert

[hoser]

If it makes you feel any better, I had absolutely no air filters on my BMW for like 5 or 6 years of daily use. Just wide open velocity stacks on Weber sidedraft carbs, trying to kill that engine. It never died, and eventually tore it down for upgrades, and the machine shop thought the engine was low mileage. Filtered air is overrated.

I know a lot of carb'ed engines, vintage racers, etc... will run without air filters. But they don't have MAF sensors, O2 sensors, catalytic converters, PCV's... etc.

 

[Mike NXP]

"filtered air is overrated" what a ridiculous comment

 

[HWY14South]

It is very true we have more dust in the atmosphere of the Denver basin and around the state of CO. Some states like Hawaii windward side, have extreme low levels of dust along coast. But regardless, if you want to take the best care of engine internals you can. Fluid & filter replacement is key. Running without filter or air bypassing the filtration is not best practice. It will have it's long term affect!

My mechanics teacher, would not allows us to even touch with fingers or even wipe any internal surface with a rag during assemble. We had to blow off with HP air before assemble. He'd say even the dust on fingers or dust from lint of a rag leaves behind will affect the seating of ring, cylinder wall, valves seats, valve stems, valve guides, bearings.

I HP wash many engines. Some come to me from GA, So TX, SoCal coast by way of vehicle transport some driven. When pulling coils (COP) electric housing or any housing, MAF sensor, Cabin HVAC sensors, cabin air filter, engine air filters, etc and blowing them off. I see lots of dust. Pull any engine cover off in a 100 series, that has not been pressure washed recently. Even ones just sitting out side not driven. You'll see!

Consider also dust is just not naturally occurring. The intake air pick-up begins in FR wheel-well of stock rigs. Brake dust, rotors wear metal dust, tire dust, road dust, road wear (rocks and cement) is fill the wheel well. We even iron dust in the paints clear coat, which detail products on the market, will reveal this iron dust. Dust is everywhere!

As the picture in the first post illustrates. By looking in air pipe, it's possible to get and idea of how much dust has entered. Dust particles (or clumps/piles of), that can been seen, are about 30 microns or larger. But understand, dust is much more prevalent in the atmosphere everywhere than we see. Additionally the OEM filter, air box and pipe are design to run at a specific pressure. Try starting without air box on. You find it will barely run if at all.

Also if you a leak past air filter or in other areas past air filter. The fuel trims will show engine running lean.

My Guy, you are the Guru here. I’m not arguing with you AT ALL! Just thought it was interesting how much more dust in general is out there in the Denver/Springs/Pueblo area

 

[TheForger]

We had to blow off with HP air before assemble. He'd say even the dust on fingers or dust from lint of a rag leaves behind will affect the seating of ring, cylinder wall, valves seats, valve stems, valve guides, bearings.

^^^This is standard practice during the assembly of warheads. Our operators clean the machined threads and install a couple different compression rings and finally an aft cap. They're only allowed to clean them with denatured alcohol on a microfiber, but at the very end they have to hit the whole thing with HP air. It's really the only way to avoid leaving behind any particulates.

 

[ramangain]

^^^This is standard practice during the assembly of warheads. Our operators clean the machined threads and install a couple different compression rings and finally an aft cap. They're only allowed to clean them with denatured alcohol on a microfiber, but at the very end they have to hit the whole thing with HP air. It's really the only way to avoid leaving behind any particulates.

Are the munitions manufactured in a clean room environment? You should see the prep work to make components and splice them together to make high power fiber lasers. Watching rock erosion is a faster process.

 

[TheForger]

Are the munitions manufactured in a clean room environment? You should see the prep work to make components and splice them together to make high power fiber lasers. Watching rock erosion is a faster process.

Yes, clean room with electro-static discharge (ESD) mats on the floor. The ceilings and floors are perforated and double layered so HVAC is plumbed between the layers to allow heat to rise and cool air to fall through the perforations. HVAC vents kick up a whole lot of dust! Very tedious!

 

[ramangain]

Yes, clean room with electro-static discharge (ESD) mats on the floor. The ceilings and floors are perforated and double layered so HVAC is plumbed between the layers to allow heat to rise and cool air to fall through the perforations. HVAC vents kick up a whole lot of dust! Very tedious!

That sounds like pretty standard practice. Not to inquire privvy information, but is it class 10k, 1k or 100? The amount of scrap we generated in a 1k cleanroom was still depressingly high due to particulates.

Sorry to hijack! Maybe it's time to get back to the original broadcast.

 

[TheForger]

That sounds like pretty standard practice. Not to inquire privvy information, but is it class 10k, 1k or 100? The amount of scrap we generated in a 1k cleanroom was still depressingly high due to particulates.

Sorry to hijack! Maybe it's time to get back to the original broadcast.

They’re ISO-5 rooms so I believe that’s class 100. Requires operators and casuals to wear Tychem suits (similar to Tyvek but also biochem resistant). We even give out paperwork if you plan on flying within 72hrs because you will be caught by TSA if they swab your clothes/hands

One of my latches on the airbox is broken so it looks like I’ll be doing that repair☹ The dust covering the top gives you a good idea of the amount that would make its way inside if not properly latched

 

[ramangain]

^ Maybe another opportunity for @BenCC to come up with a solution, perhaps in conjunction with @suprarx7nut ?

 

[mdcoa]

@2001LC , thanks for this. Just saw this recently, and it reminded me to do an early replacement of mine. I apparently put it in super carelessly (pic below), though it was still clearly doing some work (plenty of dirt on the underside).
New one is seated nicely now—thanks!

 

[2001LC]

@2001LC , thanks for this. Just saw this recently, and it reminded me to do an early replacement of mine. I apparently put it in super carelessly (pic below), though it was still clearly doing some work (plenty of dirt on the underside).
New one is seated nicely now—thanks!
View attachment 3009794

You're welcome.

BTW: Very good idea to clean both the bottom & top matting surface where rubber seal seats. Any plastic - rubber cleaner & conditioner will do. I use Lexol Vinylex Protetant, which seems in short supply these days. The K&N filter (I don't recommend, as allows in to much dust), comes with a tube of thick grease. Which this grease is applied to this seal seating area. Which give a supper air tight seal.

Another point to take extra care during install. Is the point where air tube attaches to throttle body. Ever so often, I find one, where the bottom halve of air tube gets curled inward leaving an opening directly into throttle body. It goes undetected until next time air tube removed. This is the worst of all dust sucking points.

 

[abuck99]

Silicone grease applied (lightly smeared on) to the rubber gasket around the filter helps provide and improves a good seal.