A word of Caution to everyone.... (1 Viewer)

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Joined
Sep 30, 2007
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Location
TR, SC
Monday night at 2:30 AM, a neighbor's house was broken into less than 1/4 mile away from my house. Someone broke in while the neighbor was home, went into his son's bedroom (Son wasn't home), went through his dresser and closet and took a rifle and shotgun (both in cases). Something woke the neighbor who called his son's name. Upon calling the name 2 or 3 times and receiving no answer and seeing someone coming down the hallway, he shot. It is not known if he hit or missed, but the thief did drop the guns on his way out the back door. There is a bullet hole in the wall now as well. The police were called and 2 K9 units picked up the same trail but soon lost it.
I for one am big on personal/home defense and security. I know many of you are as well, but I've always doubted the likelihood of a break-in ocurring while I was obviously home. I don't live in a bad neighborhood and break-ins aren't terribly common. This incident certainly made me think differently about things. I don't want to scare anyone or tell you how to respond. I only want everyone to realize that this is a very real situation and, in today's world, anything can happen. It sucks and I hate to admit that the worled truly is that FUBARed, but it is. Please be careful everyone.
 
Sorry to hear that Karl.

I don't live far from Karl too.

Glad the family is safe.

PS - always be sure of your target before you shoot - no matter if it is paper at the range or a bad guy at home.
 
I for one am big on personal/home defense and security.

I can't imagine anyone who would disagree with this comment...

Hate to hear about your troubles, I hope everything works out OK.
 
Shotgun a riffle and a four wheel drive
and a country boy can survive


I think someone would be crazy to enter my house. They would have to meet Mr. Slug and Mr. 00.
 
If you come in my house you have to get past Jack first (he will either cause a bad headache or a nasty infection)...then Thumper (10 rounds 40 S&W 165g hollowpt)...then Bam Bam (30 rounds .223 55g ball). I need to get some actual pics of my Thumper and Bam Bam - Karl, when are we going shooting?

PS - please knock before you enter! :grinpimp:

ETA - I left Cruiser out of the line-up b/c he will only show you to the china and dog treats...not much of a guard dog.
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If you come in my house you have to get past Jack first...then Thumper...then Bam Bam. (I need to get some actual pics of my Thumper and Bam Bam - Karl, when are we going shooting?)

You and Alex are like two peas in a pod.
 
If he got by the 18", 6 shot 12ga he'd have to face some 180gr 357s from my side and some +P 38 spcl from hers.
Pity the fool.
b
 
So, b/c of this incident, Mom has finally decided it's time to go buy herself a gun. We'll be shopping tonight. Probly gonna bring home a very simple DA hammerless .38 revolver. And if I'm home .00 .12ga is gonna be on standby as well. So, that what Bill said.
 
So, b/c of this incident, Mom has finally decided it's time to go buy herself a gun. We'll be shopping tonight. Probly gonna bring home a very simple DA hammerless .38 revolver. And if I'm home .00 .12ga is gonna be on standby as well. So, that what Bill said.

Do a little research on "in-house" penetration of 00 12ga buck. Some rounds will penetrate numerous walls and put bystanders/neighbors/sleeping persons at risk. That is one reason I went for the 223. Surprisingly enough I have read numerous studies that said 223 will not penetrate numerous walls like a 40 or 9mm will (surprisingly enough), or even like 00 buck will.

Now, if your mom lives by herself and you make sure she knows when you are coming in, especially if late at night, then a simple pump 12 ga or even 20 ga is one of the best home defense weapons - again if you are not worried about wall penetration. There have been plenty of shootings, even with police officers involved, where numerous shots have been fired from a handgun at only a few feet away and no one was hit. A shotgun can help solve that problem.

Whatever you purchase, make sure your mom is competent in its use. A DAO, hammerless/concealed hammer 38 revolver is a very simple weapon. I bought my mom a 38 DAO revolver last year for that very reason.
 
"Do a little research on "in-house" penetration of 00 12ga buck. Some rounds will penetrate numerous walls and put bystanders/neighbors/sleeping persons at risk."

For this reason I keep two 3" #4s on deck in my 870. I live in a concrete block house but there are interior walls and numerous windows, I want the first shots to be rabbit shot-good up close but not much carry.
There are five rounds of 00 buck on the butt cuff if I need more range and punch and they load quick.

"Now, if your mom lives by herself and you make sure she knows when you are coming in, especially if late at night, then a simple pump 12 ga or even 20 ga is one of the best home defense weapons."

The main reason I like a pump shotgun for HD is there is no better way I know to say "Back Off" than racking the slide of a shotgun. I read a story recently about a crack dealer that was covered by three police officers with drawn and aimed pistols but when the fourth walked up and racked a slide he quit jiving and hit the deck.

" . . . numerous shots have been fired from a handgun at only a few feet away and no one was hit. A shotgun can help solve that problem".

I'm not too sure of this actually. The pattern from an open choke 12 isn't much bigger than bore at in room distances. Mine shoots about 6" at 3 yds and that's an 18" open. Plus the swingability issue. But I do like that clackety-clack. Plus nine rounds of .33 cal ball each time you go bang is a lot of shoot quick.

The key to defense shooting is putting the lead on the target. No gun or ammo will substitute for practice practice practice.

I agree with the revolver idea. I got Jeri an S&W 442 for her birthday, get her shooting. That's an small-frame aluminum snubby which I mainly chose for carry but if your mom is only going to keep it in the house I recommend a bigger heavier gun, maybe a mid-frame 357 but shoot 38s. Lots easier to control and much less flash and bang.
But you're on the right track. Everybody is going to autos now, more shots they reckon. But there are more problems too, not the least of which is if it sits on the nightstand the mag spring can degrade. And you're probably not going to be comfortable with one in battery so you have to cock it.
Revolvers just pick up and shoot, and they always go bang. I use autos for carry but I really believe in a revolver for bedside or car protection.
Also I highly recommend an intro class and lots of practice, supervised practice. When you're stressed you revert to your earliest training so you want that to be good. There's an indoor range just opened on Poinsett Highway just in from Cherrydale. They have classes and good hours for practice. All the folks there are knowledgeable and they are glad to share their knowhow.
Happy shooting.

BTW I guess you all know that the Supreme Court finally ruled on the Second Amendment, completely in favor of our right to have handguns in the house for personal defense. A long time coming but it came today.

I bleeve I'll go pop a box. Sorry for the long post but you've hit a favorite subject :clap:
b
 
Bill - For this reason I keep two 3" #4s on deck in my 870. I live in a concrete block house but there are interior walls and numerous windows, I want the first shots to be rabbit shot-good up close but not much carry.
There are five rounds of 00 buck on the butt cuff if I need more range and punch and they load quick.


Steve - Good idea. Rabbit or turkey shot can put a hurting on someone.

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Steve - " . . . numerous shots have been fired from a handgun at only a few feet away and no one was hit. A shotgun can help solve that problem".

Bill - I'm not too sure of this actually. The pattern from an open choke 12 isn't much bigger than bore at in room distances. Mine shoots about 6" at 3 yds and that's an 18" open. Plus the swingability issue. But I do like that clackety-clack. Plus nine rounds of .33 cal ball each time you go bang is a lot of shoot quick.

Steve - There have been plenty of instances where shootings have occured with pistols at VERY close ranges (average shooting is at ~ 7 yards) and no one has been hit. Most of the information I've read on this came (IIRC) from the FBI. I've also heard plenty of accounts from my father who was a police officer for 26 years (put it this way - criminls are DUMB). I do agree that a wide open choke, or no choke, on an 18" barrel shotty is not going to have a huge pattern but it is going to be MUCH bigger than a single round from a pistol and most of all it will be easier to aim. Think about it this way - someone knocks in the door to your bedroom, you grab a gun (you are still half asleep), you make certain the person shouldn't be there (isn't a wife, child, etc) and you start shooting. You are 1) caught by surprise, 2) still half asleep, 3) scared sh*tless and 4) in one heck of a hurry - which gun is going to be easier to hit your target with? - a 2 inch barrel handgun which fires one round at a time that is less than a half inch across or a 18" barrel which fires ~ 9 rounds of lead at once with a pattern that is ~ 12" across? A near miss with the pistol = fight over with a shotgun.

Or you can take my approach and make your own "scatter pattern" with a AR! :grinpimp:

xxxxxxx

You are dead right on practice - practice is key. I need to practice a little more than I have been recently but anywhere from ~ 15 yards and closer I don't aim using the sights on my Glock 27. I know where the gun is going to hit as long as it is in my hand properly. Then there is the AR - it is just NASTY. :grinpimp:

:beer:
 
I agree w/ everything above and you know I'm going to be careful in what I get her. Of course, she got a S&W .357 Mag DAO w/ NO hammer; currently loaded w/ .38 low-recoil hollowpoints. You have to remember my mom is 5'1" and 120 lbs soking wet. The heft of the stainless .357 helps to offset the recoil and I've already set up a range for her in the backhard, hence I don't have to worry about over-penetrating. We have to drive to neighbors' houses and can't see them from the house. Anything over 3' tall in the house when I'm not around gets new holes in it. I think this will be the perfect weapon for her. No bells no whistles, can't break or jam. Load and fire. DONE: GAME OVER. Thanks for the tips though guys. Good discussion we got goin here; much to be learned by a lot of folks I'm sure.
 
Hey folks was over here searching yawls neck of the woods.....

Curious....what about installing a home security system....:popcorn:

Wondering, we have both, home security & weapons but I feel better about knowing they are coming in first off & also knowing when I leave should they break in a cop is heading to my house....:D

Just trying to add another thought process.....yes it add's $$$ to the mix but it helps on your home owners insurance & also gives your family the protection while at home or away.:idea:

Glad everyones ok......oh yea, hope you wounded them:bang:
 
ADT here only because it was installed before I purchased.

No complaints though and I agree with the above points - saves $$$ on insurance, extra police and fire security, tells you when a zone is penetrated and where, etc.

Security systems and guns are must haves but I've always read that when interviewed, most guys convicted of B&E list their #1 deterrent as a dog bark, specifically a large dog. I didn't get my dogs for that reason but it is always nice to know it is at the top of the list to cause the would be intruder to move on down the road...
 
Good point!! I guess along w/ S&W's, 870's and duel sports, UC membership standard-issue should now also include a German Shephard.
 
12 years in law enforcement and never worked a burglary at a house with a dog.----- Whatever you decide to use for home defense make sure to use quality hollow point ammo,pistol or otherwise. Its designed to flatten out and not over penetrate. Ball ammo just goes through and keeps going and doesent have the stopping power of the hollow point. I'm a big fan of Speer Gold Dot and Winchester SXT. Also keep a good bright flashlight in the nightstand with the gun. Being armed does no good if you cant identify your target. A bright light(65 lumens or more) can also temporarily blind or disorient an intruder giving you an extra second to react. A small light with a momentary switch on the end works great. Last but not least, if your serious about home defense take a training course and go to the range. Shooting is a perishable skill. Even veteran shooters have to practice.
 
12 years in law enforcement and never worked a burglary at a house with a dog.----- Whatever you decide to use for home defense make sure to use quality hollow point ammo,pistol or otherwise. Its designed to flatten out and not over penetrate. Ball ammo just goes through and keeps going and doesent have the stopping power of the hollow point. I'm a big fan of Speer Gold Dot and Winchester SXT. Also keep a good bright flashlight in the nightstand with the gun. Being armed does no good if you cant identify your target. A bright light(65 lumens or more) can also temporarily blind or disorient an intruder giving you an extra second to react. A small light with a momentary switch on the end works great. Last but not least, if your serious about home defense take a training course and go to the range. Shooting is a perishable skill. Even veteran shooters have to practice.

Scott - with regard to HP ammo does that suggest hold true w/ an AR? My understanding is that 55 grain (5.56 military ball) ammo is inherently unstable in flight (hence its wounding pattern once it enters flesh) so this also keeps the round from over penetrating walls.
 
AR's included. We carried the Federal match grade HP ammo in our patrol rifles. They did lots of testing to make sure that there wouldnt be over penetration. That was one of the concerns that made it take soo long to finally get approval to carry the rifles. Ball ammo in the AR has a tendancy to tumble when it hits and is easily deflected by even when it hits the smalles object. Thats why the military is looking at a bigger round to replace the 5.56/.223. The HP .223 rounds mushroom just like pistol rounds and transfer the most energy to the target. If you live in a place where your neighbors are really close you might want to look into the frangible rounds. Work just like regular rounds on soft tissue but they breakup if the hit something solid like concrete or wood.
 

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