A novice tackles the head gasket thread

[DetroitStyle]

I have a couple impact extensions. They are black. They really do cut back on the applied torque though. I believe I may have got mine loose with a 3/8 snap-on butterfly impact. I was surprised they were as easy as they were.

I thought maybe you had some extra EGR type tubing that mine didn't have. Is it just the A/C pipe lost in 3D perspective?

Sometimes you can come in through the fender (wheel off) to get to a bolt you may not be able reach otherwise. Takes a lot of extensions, and boy, when they let loose... Pow! ... and then you check, hoping it was the bolt that broke loose! Sometimes you win. Use 1/2" drive stuff to minimize the twist up.

I won't be able to work on the truck again until Saturday night/Sunday. So I have time to pick up an impact extension. I will try that. I'll just wear my motorcycle helmet so nothing smashes me in the face! I have been pleasantly surprised that most of the bolts/nuts have come off with little struggle, despite 20 years of Michigan driving.

I'm gonna take the front wheel off too, just to give myself more room.

and yeah, I'm pretty sure it's the AC pipe.

A few more quick ?s if you gentlemen please

1. My rear heater lines were corroded and the PO bypassed them. I'd like to remove them altogether. Does anybody have diagrams/pics of what can be pulled?
(edit: If this makes a difference, it looks like the exhaust is all original. The cats and corresponding studs are all pretty damn corroded. They are sealed and working fine, but I am worried that if I get into removing the cats to get to the heater lines, I'll open another $$$ can of worms)

2. Talking about removing the EGR stuff. What's involved in this? What can/should/shouldn't be removed? Pros/cons to removing the EGR stuff? Do I need blockoff plates? Anybody make them, or would I need to have them fabbed up?

I'm sure it's a common feeling, but I can't help but thinking that there has to be a way to clean this engine bay up and make things simpler. Anything that I can get away with removing would be a bonus, in my opinion.

Appreciate the help. I'm still green, but hoping to come out of this with a lot more knowledge!

 

[greentruck]

I know the sound of no money. You're doing good so far.

BTW, the OEM radiator that came outta our truck is on the patio. It still works if it's not 90 degrees out and you don't run the A/C at the same time, so it wasn't totally clogged. Actually looks good from the top looking in. No leaks AFAIK. If you can arrange a MUDship or other pickup, it's yours gratis. Far from perfect, it's not been sludged, either.

PM me if this turns out to be of interest. It'll eventually go to recycling, but I'm in no hurry.

 

[DetroitStyle]

Thanks for the offer... I'll let ya know.

I will say, after 2 steady days of wrenching, I'm starting to feel pretty sore! I am reasonably fit (lift 3x's a week, run 2x's a week) but 10 hours of straining with ratchets, climbing in and out of the engine bay, sliding around under the truck, etc... I'M FEELING IT!

 

[blkprj80]

Throw some big sheets of cardboard under your truck to lay on and slide around on. A couple layers of corrugated cardboard is actually very comfy compared to concrete.

I use a 3/8 drive battery impact. That saved me a bunch of time. Wobble sockets make it even better!

So how's things going? Making any progress?

 

[OGBeno]

Good luck sir. Feel free to give a buzz if you need any technical advice.

 

[IdahoDoug]

If you get that last stud/nut off, you don't need to disconnect at the Y. You've already disconnected the thick sheetmetal bracket above the Y, yes? Then just gently pull the manifolds back off the studs and secure it so you can lift the head off.

I wouldn't give up on the engine. Just keep at it. Can't recall for sure, but will a box end and a pipe to get leverage break it loose? I don't recall having access problems there greater than an inconvenience.

DougM

 

[alia176]

Dude,

Pull the whole engine out and do all this work on a stand, LOL!! Given the history, chances are you have other things that need to be addressed.

 

[DetroitStyle]

Throw some big sheets of cardboard under your truck to lay on and slide around on. A couple layers of corrugated cardboard is actually very comfy compared to concrete.

I use a 3/8 drive battery impact. That saved me a bunch of time. Wobble sockets make it even better!

So how's things going? Making any progress?

I've got a creeper, but sometimes it's a bit to close (no lift) for my face's liking.

Progress has stopped until tomorrow night (I watch my 2 little ones all day, and work afternoons. Get home at 1am, wake up at 6am and do it all over). Wife is working tomorrow until 5pm and then I'm free to wrench again. I'm hoping to have the head off tomorrow. Depends on the EGR stuff, I think.

Good luck sir. Feel free to give a buzz if you need any technical advice.

Will do. I'm getting there so far though... slow and steady. I forgot if we talked about it... but what about replacing the head bolts? I've read that they are NOT just one time use... but how do I know if they should be replaced?

If you get that last stud/nut off, you don't need to disconnect at the Y. You've already disconnected the thick sheetmetal bracket above the Y, yes? Then just gently pull the manifolds back off the studs and secure it so you can lift the head off.

I wouldn't give up on the engine. Just keep at it. Can't recall for sure, but will a box end and a pipe to get leverage break it loose? I don't recall having access problems there greater than an inconvenience.

DougM

I disconnected that bracket, but I won't know until I get that last stud/nut off if that will allow mine to move enough. I have ratchet straps ready to hold it back if it moves.

I went and bought a narrow breaker bar and an "in between" socket. I'll try that tomorrow. My deepwell sockets are too long (I think) and that's forcing my ratchet up against the firewall.

 

[Azca]

Dude,

Pull the whole engine out and do all this work on a stand, LOL!! Given the history, chances are you have other things that need to be addressed.

NOT to be a terrorist hijacker, well okay, to be a terrorist hijacker,


That is an interesting point, how long to pull the engine and do the HG vs leave it in and perform the necessary gymnastics to finish the work? There are obvious benefits but what are the drawbacks???

 

[DetroitStyle]

Still looking for some input on the EGR stuff. What's involved in removing it completely? Pros and cons?

 

[alia176]

NOT to be a terrorist hijacker, well okay, to be a terrorist hijacker,


That is an interesting point, how long to pull the engine and do the HG vs leave it in and perform the necessary gymnastics to finish the work? There are obvious benefits but what are the drawbacks???

Well, given that it takes a newbie about 8 (at least) hours to pull a head and about the same time (or less) to pull the whole engine out, to me it's a no brainer. Being bent over for hours for a head pull is just no fun anymore....at least not for my back! I've done both and from now on, suggest pulling the whole engine out with the ECU harness.

LIke I said earlier, our rigs are old enough so chances are that the items below need addressing and is much easier to perform with the engine out:

- rear main is leaking
- both oil pans are leaking
- transmission input pump seal is leaking
- ATF and PS hoses need replacing
- oil pump O ring (can be done in situ, but much easier with engine out)
- coolant hoses to the rear heater is probably swelling and the hard pipes are rusting
- the mega PITFA PHH hose R/R
- water jacketed oil cooler needs to be opened up and thoroughly flushed
- r/r the gazillion vac hoses
- etc, etc

Aplogize for the thread hijack but it's not too late yank that biotch outta there

 

[alia176]

Still looking for some input on the EGR stuff. What's involved in removing it completely? Pros and cons?

Suggest you search "egr delete", well documented on this board.

 

[DetroitStyle]

Head is loose!

Exhaust manifold bolt has been defeated, valve cover off, caps and cams removed, tensioner removed, etc, etc... I must have missed a bolt or two in the lower intake manifold because it came with when I yanked on the head. My headlamp was almost dead and I have a fridge full of 10% stouts... So I'm done for the night!

 

[greentruck]

Head is loose!

Exhaust manifold bolt has been defeated, valve cover off, caps and cams removed, tensioner removed, etc, etc... I must have missed a bolt or two in the lower intake manifold because it came with when I yanked on the head. My headlamp was almost dead and I have a fridge full of 10% stouts... So I'm done for the night!

You've earned that beer. Go for it!

 

[DetroitStyle]

Head is off! Pics tomorrow but there was almost NO gasket material left? I didn't see anything in the cylinders that looked like coolant...

 

[DetroitStyle]

Some pics:

Cams!

Cleaned off the link and marked the chain...

then, I got worried that it would come off, so I scraped a couple of small notches in the link

Cams out!

This mother effer right here:

and, the money shot... but, you'll notice... there's almost no gasket material left?

 

[DetroitStyle]

OK, a quick question or two... bear with my, because I'm a noob.

When I take the head to the machine shop.. I know they are going to check to make sure it's not warped and mill it if it is. I'm not TOO worried, because the truck didn't overheat (close to the red, but never into it). Buuuut, just in case, what are the tolerances for this? How warped is too warped? How much should/can be milled?

Also... what else should I have the shop doing? Be specific, this is my first trip down this road! I hear people saying "do the valves" but what does that entail?

Approximate cost for all of this?

 

[jcardona1]

I'm not sure what the max tolerances are but mine need 7 thous. shaved off to be true, and it never blew the gasket or overheated.

I haven't read the whole thread but I'm assuming your buying the full 'valve grind kit' from Toyota that comes with all the seals and gaskets? This will include new valve seals. Take them with you to the shop, tell them you want them installed.

When I took my head in, I went for the full package. Clean, test, resurface as needed and the full valve grind which includes grinding the seats then tipping the stems so they're within spec. This included replacing the valve seals. This would run me about $500. The valve grind job is the expensive part of the job. Without this it would have cost me just a bit over $100.

The shop called me and said the valve guides for the exhaust side were a bit out of spec. Nothing to worry about, but if I wanted her good and new it would run me an extra $100 or so for parts and labor. I have OCD, so I told them to go ahead and change them out.

So to summarize, expect to pay $500~800 for a full service and valve grind or about $100 for cleaning/testing/resurface.

 

[jcardona1]

And you can actually follow mine from beginning to end with tons of pics starting on post #33

https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/711362-evolution-land-cruiser-my-80s-build-thread-2.html

 

[alia176]

OK, a quick question or two... bear with my, because I'm a noob.

When I take the head to the machine shop.. I know they are going to check to make sure it's not warped and mill it if it is. I'm not TOO worried, because the truck didn't overheat (close to the red, but never into it). Buuuut, just in case, what are the tolerances for this? How warped is too warped? How much should/can be milled?

Also... what else should I have the shop doing? Be specific, this is my first trip down this road! I hear people saying "do the valves" but what does that entail?

Approximate cost for all of this?

Good job on removing the head. Some answers:

- your head WILL be warped simply because it's so freaking long. No biggie, machine shop will machine it flat.

- have them do a valve job; some do a 3 angle, some do a 4 angle.

- have them replace all valve stem seals (supplied by your valve grind kit)

- have them check the guides to see if any of them are worn (should be standard item they check)

- have them trim the valve stems the same amount they shaved off the head.

- have them check the valve clearance. This should be back to factory specs because they trimmed the valve stems. But if not, they'll need to get the correct bucket shims from Toyota.

- if any of the valves are pitted, time to replace them.

Now, you need to do an awesome job of cleaning your engine block and then look for imperfections on the block surface. After you spend hours cleaning with a scotch pad, use your finger nails to see if you can feel any tracks on the surface. Usually these tracks are caused by the coolant corroding away on the surface. If you can feel them, then it's time to machine the block too

In my case, I didn't need any valves and they performed all items above for less than $500. YMMV.

Also, this is a good time to take those cruddy intake pieces into the same shop and have them clean it with their hot, caustic washing machine. I think I paid $50 to have them do this and it was totally worth it.