'99 vs '04 Offroad - feedback requested

[geanes]

Oh, you're right. Guess I read it online somewhere and believed it... I just did a quick online look and can't find any LXs with rear lockers in 98 or 99.

It confused the heck out of me too. Supposedly 98-99 Canadian LX's had the rear locker and no LSD option (though that is even up for debate on the good old iGoogle). I originally looked for a rear locked 100 series (LC or LX). Couldn't find any down here in TX. I "settled" on a gently used '98 LX with the LSD and 2 pinion diff. I was initially concerned that it would be limited in offroad capability because of those two things. I was WAY wrong in that assumption. I'm sure I could find situations where a locker and 4-pinion front diff would be valuable, but I've yet to encounter that. From my racing background, I have a solid concept of left foot braking, heel-toe and throttle management. The 2 pinion diff's that "blow-up" seem to be related to people recklessly overthrottling when a front wheel is lifted, then comes down and grabs dirt which "shocks" the diff that then implodes.

 

[CA Cruisin]

So back to my original post question: as a racing background person would you prefer a 100 series w/o ATRAC or VSC so you could sustain a controlled (often sideways) slide on loose/slippery surfaces? That's sort of the bulk of my question... is ATRAC/VSC "safe" in the environments I encounter which in my line of work and recreation tends to be washboards, mud, ice, sand and snow.

I've driven only '96 and '99 LCs in those conditions, and they performed like a boss.

I know at the end of the day I'll love either rig and I'm not trying to nitpick; but rather just make an informed decision based on other people's experience and wisdom Thanks.

It confused the heck out of me too. Supposedly 98-99 Canadian LX's had the rear locker and no LSD option (though that is even up for debate on the good old iGoogle). I originally looked for a rear locked 100 series (LC or LX). Couldn't find any down here in TX. I "settled" on a gently used '98 LX with the LSD and 2 pinion diff. I was initially concerned that it would be limited in offroad capability because of those two things. I was WAY wrong in that assumption. I'm sure I could find situations where a locker and 4-pinion front diff would be valuable, but I've yet to encounter that. From my racing background, I have a solid concept of left foot braking, heel-toe and throttle management. The 2 pinion diff's that "blow-up" seem to be related to people recklessly overthrottling when a front wheel is lifted, then comes down and grabs dirt which "shocks" the diff that then implodes.[/QUOTE

 

[geanes]

The fewer "driver aids" the happier I typically am. I am a bit of a traditionalist in that way and have always driven by "the seat of my pants"...sounds like you are a similar style driver. Grew up driving karts and later rwd both track and rally. I do like ABS for daily driving, but that's about it. Having said that, I wouldn't hesitate to run with ATRAC in conditions other than rock-crawling (which I don't do). For mud, sand, gravel, small rocks, snow, etc. I think ATRAC is perfectly capable, though slightly "intrusive" IMHO.

On the 98-99 series (at least on my LX, not sure about the LC) the center diff auto-locks the moment 4L is engaged. I did the Pin-7 mod to disable that feature so I can drive in 4L without the center diff locked and I can then choose to lock that diff in 4L or 4H using the dash button.

 

[CA Cruisin]

The fewer "driver aids" the happier I typically am. I am a bit of a traditionalist in that way and have always driven by "the seat of my pants"...sounds like you are a similar style driver. Grew up driving karts and later rwd both track and rally. I do like ABS for daily driving, but that's about it. Having said that, I wouldn't hesitate to run with ATRAC in conditions other than rock-crawling (which I don't do). For mud, sand, gravel, small rocks, snow, etc. I think ATRAC is perfectly capable, though slightly "intrusive" IMHO.

On the 98-99 series (at least on my LX, not sure about the LC) the center diff auto-locks the moment 4L is engaged. I did the Pin-7 mod to disable that feature so I can drive in 4L without the center diff locked and I can then choose to lock that diff in 4L or 4H using the dash button.

Def. a "seat-of-my-pants-er" driver, cut my teeth driving 5 yrs in deep sloggy mud, snow and heavy washboards in northern New Mexico.
That's why I asked; those are the main conditions I still encounter. Not a crawler (yet).

 

[uzj100]

04 is what you want and the mpg's are a little better and the 5 speed makes a big difference.

 

[tacoduck]

Does the 04 have AHC? some people like it... others don't. I own a 2001LC and 2007lx. both are great trucks. the 07 has AHC and is very comfy. Its a bit squirrelly above 80 MPH. the 07 also has a better interior, and the 5 speed is very nice. ATRAC is battle tested and idiot proof. it is point and shoot and very capable.

In the 99, you don't have AHC, and can update the stereo to a modern double din unit. the 2007 NAV unit is IMO, dated. wish I could go aftermarket Double din.

Either truck will go to 500k with little problems. Rust is the only thing that will kill these trucks. look for it.

 

[diego355]

Sell the 99 and add a rear locker to the 04, done.

 

[SALTY METHODS]

If you want more of a driver's experience, then stick with the `99. If you want the computer to do the work for you, go with the `04. And no, I'm not completely biased or anything. Ha! I think all the new computer controlled traction controls ruins your off road experience. It doesn't teach you good technique. It only promotes s***ty driving habits IMO.

 

[flintknapper]

My 98 LX and every 98 and 99 LX I've ever seen (dozens when searching for one to buy) never had a rear locker. If you ever locate an LX with a rear locker, you've found a unicorn as they are rare as hen's teeth. As I understand it, 98-99 LX was LSD only, 98-99 LC was open diff with e-Locker optional. ATRAC was then released across both platforms after that.

^^^^^^^ Correct! (applies to U.S. platform).

 

[RobRed]

If you want more of a driver's experience, then stick with the `99. If you want the computer to do the work for you, go with the `04. And no, I'm not completely biased or anything. Ha! I think all the new computer controlled traction controls ruins your off road experience. It doesn't teach you good technique. It only promotes s***ty driving habits IMO.

False.

 

[SALTY METHODS]

False.

So someone who relies on computerized traction control is just as good of a driver as someone that doesn't?

 

[suprarx7nut]

I'd argue the ATRAC system requires you to be an even better driver. I say that as someone with a locked 99. ATRAC requires really careful throttle control to be effective. With a locked diff you can just climb most anything with ease.

OP: Sounds like the 04 suits you better. The 5 speed trans is a huge benefit in my eyes.

 

[bucfl]

If you want more of a driver's experience, then stick with the `99. If you want the computer to do the work for you, go with the `04. And no, I'm not completely biased or anything. Ha! I think all the new computer controlled traction controls ruins your off road experience. It doesn't teach you good technique. It only promotes s***ty driving habits IMO.

Not always. I would say for a novice, yes. You would rely more on the vehicle doing most of the work. As you gain experience, you should be able to assess the situation and know when you will need the added assistance from locker, atrac, winch or another driver/vehicle.

 

[RobRed]

So someone who relies on computerized traction control is just as good of a driver as someone that doesn't?

Yes and probably better. Say like professional drivers, in any kind of modern motor racing.

Your aspersion that traction aids are somehow for lesser men (my words) is silly in my opinion. Further more, as it applies to a 100 series, VSC and TRAC are primary on road aids and can help even the most experienced and skilled driver as well as mortals. ATRAC has the effect of LSD or a diff locker but i suppose open diffs are more manly and provide a "better" experience. You know picking better lines so one need not rely on those pesky traction aids. Lock that center diff and you don't have to worry about VSC and ATRAC interfering and being all "computery".

The 99 is a very good year but the 04 is superior in a few ways. Add an elocker or air locker rear and now you have all the toys to use

I've used a lot of sarcasm here... because you set me up for it. Perhaps you haven't had much experience or training with modern systems and how to put them to good use. I've given a lot of instruction to folks not using the ATRAC system correctly. Once the parameters are known the experience tends to be very good.

 

[CA Cruisin]

Does the 04 have AHC? some people like it... others don't. I own a 2001LC and 2007lx. both are great trucks. the 07 has AHC and is very comfy. Its a bit squirrelly above 80 MPH. the 07 also has a better interior, and the 5 speed is very nice. ATRAC is battle tested and idiot proof. it is point and shoot and very capable.

In the 99, you don't have AHC, and can update the stereo to a modern double din unit. the 2007 NAV unit is IMO, dated. wish I could go aftermarket Double din.

Either truck will go to 500k with little problems. Rust is the only thing that will kill these trucks. look for it.

2004 doesn't have AHC. I'm realizing the less Tech. my car has, I tend to like it better, as far as the driving experience. But I will grow, like any other soft-fleshed creature, to like comfort It needs shocks. If I do keep the '04, I need to determine whether to stay with stock shocks or firm it up.

It has Navigation.
Remind me, which LC years post-2003 in the U.S. came available w/o Nav.?

 

[hoser]

My 98 LX and every 98 and 99 LX I've ever seen (dozens when searching for one to buy) never had a rear locker. If you ever locate an LX with a rear locker, you've found a unicorn as they are rare as hen's teeth. As I understand it, 98-99 LX was LSD only, 98-99 LC was open diff with e-Locker optional. ATRAC was then released across both platforms after that.

The Canadian spec 98-99 LX's had available rear lockers. They only sold a few hundred 98-99 LX's in Canada... and probably only a handful of them made it across the US border.

 

[RobRed]

Remind me, which LC years post-2003 in the U.S. came available w/o Nav.?

I posted a link to my differences list!

All right...
98-00 No NAV
01-02 NAV Option but almost all imported have it
03-07 NAV Option but almost all imported have it

The later years with out NAV are unicorn status. 03 and 06 are most likely to find non-NAV examples.

 

[CA Cruisin]

I posted a link to my differences list!

All right...
98-00 No NAV
01-02 NAV Option but almost all imported have it
03-07 NAV Option but almost all imported have it

The later years with out NAV are unicorn status. 03 and 06 are most likely to find non-NAV examples.

I saw that, RobRed thanks for your commitment to the 100 on many levels, from lists to video and forum responses. I couldn't log on to the tlc site, guess I can't retrieve my forgotten password. Found this chat also which helped (saw your posts on here too) Land Cruiser Virgin Here - Which 100 Series is "best" - Page 3 - Expedition Portal
Also of interest is ATRAC & VSC started in 2000.

 

[RND1]

It needs shocks. If I do keep the '04, I need to determine whether to stay with stock shocks or firm it up.

I replaced the tired shocks on my '03 with OEM Toyota front and rear and OME 865 springs. The new springs gave me about 1.5" lift out back and I cranked the T bars up front the same. The springs aren't actually any taller than OEM, they just have a stiffer spring rate so the truck sits higher. I love the new ride. Not wallowy at all in turns like I expected. Very compliant on the road. Surprisingly sufficient offroad at HIH.

 

[Davidsel47]

I love my 2004 so much im going to sale my daily driver!