80's People this one caught me off Guard... this is what i found VIDEO (1 Viewer)

[PanchoLedezma]

What you guys think about the videos above??

Retoque the HB bolt,then check.
Take off pulleys and inspect.

you need to pull the front of the truck and get a straight look at the HB and remove, then inspect. If it has been loose for awhile it can ruin your crank.

X2 on this one .. it happen to me ( I caught it on time before it make more damage ) back in the day was 300 something part .. well worth it

i would think it is also backed out a little. without the HB tight then the PS can knock like mad.

Hey Man - Not sure what motor you have, but this happened to me with an HD-T. The harmonic balancer is actually 2 pieces separated by rubber which can delaminate. This causes the wobble which will lead to an oil leak on the front main and damage to the keyway milled in the crank if left.

Maybe the crank bolt is just loose, but I'd recommend removing the dampener and inspecting for cracks in the rubber just in case. If good and the key and keyway show no wear, re-install and torque with an air impact and blue Loctite - pretty much what most rebuilders do. Or, get a $700 3/4" torque wrench..... or torque multiplier.....

Good luck!

If you have a torque wrench that can't handle 304 lbs, I seem to remember a few threads here in the 80's section about adding an extension to the business end of a torque wrench to multiply the force, or a Google search should turn up some ways to do it.

Here you go - one solution:

A Low Cost 300 ft-lb Torque Wrench - DIY Shop-Built

What you guys think about the videos above??

 

[2fpower]

I assume you have oil pressure when the bolt was on. Hopefully, you did not run the engine long without the harmonic balancer on. The oil pump works only when you torque down the main harmonic balancer bolt.

I don't know of a way to check those gears for the oil pump without pulling the front timing cover, and you know how fun that is to do!

Anyway, I would try another harmonic balancer. FYI... They sell a non OEM at Rockauto.

 

[PanchoLedezma]

I assume you have oil pressure when the bolt was on. Hopefully, you did not run the engine long without the harmonic balancer on. The oil pump works only when you torque down the main harmonic balancer bolt.

I don't know of a way to check those gears for the oil pump without pulling the front timing cover, and you know how fun that is to do!

Anyway, I would try another harmonic balancer. FYI... They sell a non OEM at Rockauto.

Yes, i only run it for a few seconds at a time, oil pressure was good after I re-installed the HB infact I think is better now after I torque que bolt better than the first time...

Correct me if i'm wrong, the crankshaft have a bearing behind the oil seal or something like that or the noise was just that the oil pump wasn't working like you said? i have a USA 1FZFE ATM engine.

next thing will be replace the harmonic balancer. if the wobble persist it will be the crankshaft?

 

[ppc]

I think your question is related to the crankshaft not the camshafts. The harmonic balancer bolts to the crankshaft.

The crankshaft has journal bearings, mains and rod bearings. They are not ball bearings.

Directly behind the front main seal is the timing chain and gear.

If you replace the HB and still have a problem with wobble then you have serious problems with a bent crankshaft or the journal bearings and caps are destroyed and might mean big repair costs or engine replacement. Lets hope its just the HB.

 

[PanchoLedezma]

I think your question is related to the crankshaft not the camshafts. The harmonic balancer bolts to the crankshaft.

The crankshaft has journal bearings, mains and rod bearings. They are not ball bearings.

Directly behind the front main seal is the timing chain and gear.

If you replace the HB and still have a problem with wobble then you have serious problems with a bent crankshaft or the journal bearings and caps are destroyed and might mean big repair costs or engine replacement. Lets hope its just the HB.

sorry i got confuse for a little bit, yes i meant crankshaft, i replaced the timing chain before having a wobble, thinking it has a guide broken but it was an oil pressure problem do to oil sludge, maybe the HB got damage when first removed to change the TC, because it appears after i finished to replace the TC

Or can it be a wrong timing chain that gives me the wobble? i have a USA 1FZFE ATM engine and looking at the invoice it says 1FZ without FE is that the same? sorry for my ignorance, the crankshaft is easy to damage? it was not an issue before that.

actually when the HB removed i could not see any wooble as the video that i posted before shows....

thank you for your thoughts

 

[2fpower]

Good to hear you have good oil pressure. Not good to hear about the sludge. Hopefully that did not cause low pressure and bearing damage.

As @ppc said, no ball bearings, so my thought is noise should be constant with or without HB installed.

Start with the HB.

If not the HB, since the bolt torqued down engages the gear to run the oil pump, that woudl be my next concern about the series of gears installed on the crank behind the HB, if they are in the right order.

I can't recall, does the power steering pump run off the same gears as the oil pump? Could that be causing some of the noise? @BILT4ME do you recall?

Chain should be the same, don't worry about that.

 

[PanchoLedezma]

Good to hear you have good oil pressure. Not good to hear about the sludge. Hopefully that did not cause low pressure and bearing damage.

As @ppc said, no ball bearings, so my thought is noise should be constant with or without HB installed.

Start with the HB.

If not the HB, since the bolt torqued down engages the gear to run the oil pump, that woudl be my next concern about the series of gears installed on the crank behind the HB, if they are in the right order.

I can't recall, does the power steering pump run off the same gears as the oil pump? Could that be causing some of the noise? @BILT4ME do you recall?

Chain should be the same, don't worry about that.

thanks bro, I'm looking for the HB right now, yes the PS, OP, and Crankshaft, they are connected i think.

Question: do you think that a bad gear on the oil pump or power steering could cause the wobble in the HB,?

when remove the HB, did not have the wobble in the crankshaft, but as you said it wont work if the bolt is not tight, maybe it is the HB, i hope so, but when I inspect the hb, i didn't saw sign of loosen parts, like the outer piece and the inner piece.. but obviously at high RPM maybe different...

maybe i will remove the HB once again and run it with the bolt tight to make the oil pump engage and see what happens, what do you think about that?

I will remove the oil pump cover just to inspect it anyways, i have done this so much now that i can remove everything in about 30 minutes i almost have muscular memory on it.

thanks for your time

 

[BILT4ME]

Good to hear you have good oil pressure. Not good to hear about the sludge. Hopefully that did not cause low pressure and bearing damage.

As @ppc said, no ball bearings, so my thought is noise should be constant with or without HB installed.

Start with the HB.

If not the HB, since the bolt torqued down engages the gear to run the oil pump, that woudl be my next concern about the series of gears installed on the crank behind the HB, if they are in the right order.

I can't recall, does the power steering pump run off the same gears as the oil pump? Could that be causing some of the noise? @BILT4ME do you recall?

Chain should be the same, don't worry about that.

Yes, the PS pump runs off of the oil pump drive gear which runs from the harmonic balancer tension.

1) Don't run your engine anymore without the HB installed. You are running it WITHOUT oil and it WILL damage the main and rod bearings.
2) The wobble seen in your HB is most likely from damage to the HB during removal, depending on how it was removed. Replace the HB.
3) The NOISE you're hearing can come from a number of things.
a) Have you removed or replaced your Power Steering Pump recently?
b) Have you replaced your Oil Pump Seal recently?

The engine did NOT make the noise while running without the HB installed. That would point me to either the Oil Pump or, more likely the PS pump. It is common that people damage or chip the teeth on the PS pump when swapping the gear from one pump to another and that ends up making noise like you hear.

As far as tightening the HB on when you get it, I don't know how heavy a person you are, but a 150 LB person (68 kg) on a 3 ft (1 meter) pipe on a wrench will get about 450 lb-ft (it needs to be 304 LB-FT) If you have a one meter pipe and give it all you've got, you should be CLOSE on the proper torque.

You can remove the oil pump cover and inspect the oil pump gear teeth and possibly the PS pump gear teeth. It does not take much to make that noise.

 

[PanchoLedezma]

Yes, the PS pump runs off of the oil pump drive gear which runs from the harmonic balancer tension.

1) Don't run your engine anymore without the HB installed. You are running it WITHOUT oil and it WILL damage the main and rod bearings.
2) The wobble seen in your HB is most likely from damage to the HB during removal, depending on how it was removed. Replace the HB.
3) The NOISE you're hearing can come from a number of things.
a) Have you removed or replaced your Power Steering Pump recently?
b) Have you replaced your Oil Pump Seal recently?

The engine did NOT make the noise while running without the HB installed. That would point me to either the Oil Pump or, more likely the PS pump. It is common that people damage or chip the teeth on the PS pump when swapping the gear from one pump to another and that ends up making noise like you hear.

As far as tightening the HB on when you get it, I don't know how heavy a person you are, but a 150 LB person (68 kg) on a 3 ft (1 meter) pipe on a wrench will get about 450 lb-ft (it needs to be 304 LB-FT) If you have a one meter pipe and give it all you've got, you should be CLOSE on the proper torque.

You can remove the oil pump cover and inspect the oil pump gear teeth and possibly the PS pump gear teeth. It does not take much to make that noise.

That clear a lot of question on my mind, thank you for your advice, now i'm more confident that it has to be the HB,the knocking noise i heard is only with the HB on (the other noise maybe because i run the engine with out oil, but i will check the gears of the OP and PS, haven't done that work recently (changing the pumps) but since the Timing chain change, i ditch my mechanic and start to do it my self.

i have learned a lot and that kind of give me satisfaction... now i'm thinking that the best thing it could happened to my car was end my relationship with my mechanic, and start learning, find this forum and start doing this by myself. i like it a lot!

thanks for your time, i really appreciate every tip i got

 

[PanchoLedezma]

Well, i have an update to make.

Changed HB, the wobble is reduce.. but still has a little bit, and the sound is hearable... i first i thought i was imagine it, but is there.

Maybe the problem is inside the motor that makes the crank shaft wobble. Before changin the Timing Chain, there was no problem there, i'm thinking if the timing change has anything to do with it, probably the PS gears?, don't see the problem coming from the oil Pump gears

Tomorrow, i'm going to torque a little more that HB, a see what happens...

 

[ccslider]

Did you pull the valve cover and look?

 

[Cass007]

Having blown up a few motors in the past (never a 1FZ-FE though) it sounds a lot like rod knock. Does the sound increase with rpm? I didn't read through the entire thread ... so many words.

 

[PanchoLedezma]

Having blown up a few motors in the past (never a 1FZ-FE though) it sounds a lot like rod knock. Does the sound increase with rpm? I didn't read through the entire thread ... so many words.

Hi bro, no, is actually the other, when I increase the RPM the the little wobble get straight and the sound disappears... I would have to take the valve cover and see if the chain have mark of knocking or something like that...

 

[PanchoLedezma]

Well well well, this is an update, and this really cought me off guard again,

Now I found out that when I move the wheels the noise desapears.. Take a look at this video and listen. Carefully. (the weird electric noise is the microphone, I do hear like an air noise like the breaks of a 16 wheeler after that everything is like it's supposed to be)

 

[PanchoLedezma]

Yes, the PS pump runs off of the oil pump drive gear which runs from the harmonic balancer tension.

1) Don't run your engine anymore without the HB installed. You are running it WITHOUT oil and it WILL damage the main and rod bearings.
2) The wobble seen in your HB is most likely from damage to the HB during removal, depending on how it was removed. Replace the HB.
3) The NOISE you're hearing can come from a number of things.
a) Have you removed or replaced your Power Steering Pump recently?
b) Have you replaced your Oil Pump Seal recently?

The engine did NOT make the noise while running without the HB installed. That would point me to either the Oil Pump or, more likely the PS pump. It is common that people damage or chip the teeth on the PS pump when swapping the gear from one pump to another and that ends up making noise like you hear.

As far as tightening the HB on when you get it, I don't know how heavy a person you are, but a 150 LB person (68 kg) on a 3 ft (1 meter) pipe on a wrench will get about 450 lb-ft (it needs to be 304 LB-FT) If you have a one meter pipe and give it all you've got, you should be CLOSE on the proper torque.

You can remove the oil pump cover and inspect the oil pump gear teeth and possibly the PS pump gear teeth. It does not take much to make that noise.

Sir, you are totally right, what would you advice to do, i found out that when i turn the tires, the noise disappears totally, that is totally in line with what you suggested, that the noise coming from the power steering pump,

now what can i do, replace the gear who is inside the engine, or the noise is coming from the pump itself...

or maybe is a pressure problem, there is a leak, but is not that bad, i fill the reservoir about 2 months ago an is still in the full mark, cold and hot

thanks for the help

 

[Stevesnj]

Sir, you are totally right, what would you advice to do, i found out that when i turn the tires, the noise disappears totally, that is totally in line with what you suggested, that the noise coming from the power steering pump,

now what can i do, replace the gear who is inside the engine, or the noise is coming from the pump itself...

or maybe is a pressure problem, there is a leak, but is not that bad, i fill the reservoir about 2 months ago an is still in the full mark, cold and hot

thanks for the help

So what did you do to fix this? I have a slightly same issue, not as loud.

 

[BILT4ME]

So what did you do to fix this? I have a slightly same issue, not as loud.

Post a video of your noise.
Hood open, engine running, start outside, move inside, move up and down near the front of the engine, start on left side, work over the top, then down the right side, and over toward the exhaust.

Move slow enough for us to see and hear changes.

Tell us make, model, year, what recent work has been done and any circumstances that may have started this noise.

 

[v840vic]

You should not run the engine without the harmonic balancer on and torqued because it is what turns the drive gear for the oil pump so you are running it with no oil pressure!!!!