80 series with NON OEM engines thread

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There is a frito lay distribution center right next to my business the majority of the route trucks are mid 90's era 4bta engines. they wide open and empty struggle to get 65mph on a flat highway. I have rode in them to see. I considered a 4 bt for a swap until toying around with the frito lay trucks.

I also own a 40 series with a 3.7 liter hercules intercooled turbo diesel and nv4500 tranny. Its juiced up to 35 psi sporting a columbus diesel turbo and pump. It pushes the 40 series around fine, but I would not even think of it for an 80. The torque is there about 375- 400ft lbs but the 160 HP just doesnt get the job done.
 
I can personally attest to Greasecruiser's statements. Approx 3 weeks ago I drove home my 4BTA (purchased new/recon from Cummins)/700r4 powered 1994 80 series fromDelta,CO to Oakland,CA. Drove 70-85 MPH over ALL of the mountain passes. Average fuel economy? 22miles per gallon. That's a hell of a lot better than the 12 mpg I got on the way out...

How does it drive? Fantastic. Tons of power, excellent driveability, and I'm grinning the entire time I drive that thing.:D
 
Our thread here is at a crossroads. Each swap has its own set of circumstances. If you read the beginning of my V8 swap thread it talks about my needs. These needs are different for each of us b/c we wheel and drive in totally different parts of the USA and world. A swap and the right one for each of us has different driving forces behind it.

For me spinning 39.5" swampers was first. This includes in deep ohio mud. Swampers only work in deep mud when they are turned fast enough to clean out. The stock engine could not keep my old 36" swampers spinning in 1st gear high range. The mud just forced the 1fz to fall down. She tried hard though and gave me good service. After this came highway power. This to me is driving at 65mph and having plenty of pedal left to pass slow pokes with authority. Another important factor for me was a engine that I know well. The LT1 engine was a home run for me b/c I had swapped and wrenched on 2 others in the past. I knew the wiring and the potential pitfalls.

I am not in any way saying a 4bt is a bad engine. I love diesels and think that the ultimate 80 motor would be the 6cyl 4.5 power stroke/navistar. If my needs were different I would throw a 4cyl diesel into the mix. The LT1 was right for me. Others have and may shoot some holes in the LT1 as not being the right one for them.

Regards

Kirk
 
kirk said:
There is a frito lay distribution center right next to my business the majority of the route trucks are mid 90's era 4bta engines. they wide open and empty struggle to get 65mph on a flat highway. I have rode in them to see. I considered a 4 bt for a swap until toying around with the frito lay trucks.

No offense taken on my part. But you are comparing apples to oranges here. The Frito Lay trucks are 1 1/4 ton vans full of potato chips and other snack foods. This weighs a helluva lot more than an 80 series! And........most of the Frito Lay trucks have Turbo 400's, a 3 speed tranny and they are governed out so the Frito Lay drivers are not racing around in these huge vans. When you put a 700R4 or any other overdrive tranny behind the 4BT, you can maintain 80-85mph no problem. You still have plenty of power to pass people on the highway in the slow lane.

It sounds like the LS1 conversion that you did was perfect for your needs. The 4BT was definitely not in your best interest but for a LOT of people, it is their #1 choice.
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WHY..................................

are all you bluring the line's?

Apple's to orange's.........................


For crying out loud when you are talkin NON OEM engines and one guy says Diesel:) .........blah, blah and the other guy says gas:frown: ...........blah,blah



Comparing these two motors IS just like comparing apples to oranges.

It's not a matter of little importance, opinion, or ego, it's a matter of nessesity.

When you build your rig to go rock crawling 1st, you go and get a Ferrari motor, 1 or 2jz, or the motor with the least amount of stroke in it so the power band is realy, realy, high :rolleyes:


When you build it for blasting dunes down mexico way or your trying to spin clean the mud from your boggers, you get the motor with the most amount of stroke *mabie* a diesel like a 4-5-6bt so you can tractor through the sand and mud maxxing oh,....mabie 5-6mph. :rolleyes:


If a gas station is a luxury for you then you want to put a gas motor in it :D


see....its all in what you build it for ;)


Apple's and Orange's


I feel so much better now clarifying that!....whhhew!
 
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Wow! I thought that was pretty well established. But, THANKS SO MUCH for clearing that up for all of us. THANKS again!
 
Just curious if any of the dodge sprinter van motors could ever be considered. Seems to get good feedback for what it is and it "looks" small enough. Just curiuos...
 
sethro said:
I can personally attest to Greasecruiser's statements. Approx 3 weeks ago I drove home my 4BTA (purchased new/recon from Cummins)/700r4 powered 1994 80 series fromDelta,CO to Oakland,CA. Drove 70-85 MPH over ALL of the mountain passes. Average fuel economy? 22miles per gallon. That's a hell of a lot better than the 12 mpg I got on the way out...

How does it drive? Fantastic. Tons of power, excellent driveability, and I'm grinning the entire time I drive that thing.:D
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Man how I would love to do that swap into my '91. Love the truck and boy has she been steady, but that is almost double the mpg I get...and it couldn't be any slower:)
 
so it is a possibility? I had a hard time finding anything about the motor by itself, like weight and price if bought as a long block.
 
kirk said:
As far as other swaps I am a fan of lightweight powerful engines. Nearly any small block chev is a good candidate. I see a weight limit on the factory front axle and feel the 1fz engine is much lighter than we all think. I cannot find a weight on it. Gauging from how it hangs on the hoist I suspect it is very close to a SBC in fully dressed weight. The cummins engines 4 and 6bt are a too heavy in my opinion and the 4BT does not have the top end zip for 65mph cruisin. The 6bt has size issues. A big block chev would be the bomb but its heavy and the firewall and frame rail width would create extra work. cooling demands might exceed the stock radiator. the toyota v8s are great engines but they are inherently large and complex b/c of the technology the have engineered into them. this makes for major installation challenges.

Any swap can be done, how far does one want to go to see it through?

Thats my 2 cents for y'all.

Regards

Kirk
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FYI, and others. the 4bt only weighs 78 lbs. (570 lbs. dry) more than a Vortec V6 (492 lbs. dry).
With bigger injectors, Turbo, and pump, it can get numbers close to 300HP, and 500 plus on the torque. With these numbers, and the right gears, you can get over 100 mph easly.
I`ve seen the 4bt`s come across are dock being shipped on small crates, and they did look pretty small.

And if someone didn`t need emissions, why not just go with the 502 Ramjet, but then you would need bigger diff`s.
Just more info.
 
tntoyota said:
1jz: 2.5L 3.39" bore x 2.81" stroke
2jz: 3.0L 3.39" bore x 3.39" stroke (or box or boster motor
1fz: 4.5L 3.39" bore x 3.64" stroke ( < I think wrong but not by far)

Is that a trade up or trade down?

there is NO stroke in those "Car" motors.

stroke is pulling power at RPM's

short= high RPM no pulling power

long= low RPM power no high end power


Can we put this to bed?




Hum actually no!

If you look at the engines just for spec you are right but you left out one important pat the supra is turbo charged. Standers form aprox 22bhp @ 5800rpm (not to good for our aplications) torque 210 @ 4800 rpm.

Now with a few tweeks on standard internals 550bhp at 6000 rpm and close to 600 @ 4500 rpm torque.

Now there is a replacment for displacmen
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Scottb said:
FYI, and others. the 4bt only weighs 78 lbs. (570 lbs. dry) more than a Vortec V6 (492 lbs. dry).
With bigger injectors, Turbo, and pump, it can get numbers close to 300HP, and 500 plus on the torque. With these numbers, and the right gears, you can get over 100 mph easly.
I`ve seen the 4bt`s come across are dock being shipped on small crates, and they did look pretty small.

And if someone didn`t need emissions, why not just go with the 502 Ramjet, but then you would need bigger diff`s.
Just more info.
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That seems pretty light for such a HD engine. Heres what I found:

http://www.everytime.cummins.com/every/pdf/4087025.pdf

According to cummins it looks to be around 750lbs. which is not bad. Should be pretty close to a 1fz factory engine.
 
As far as when my engine goes i'm thinking diesel, although I have had much experience with lsx engines and I do love them. But i'm thinking 4bt..... how much does the 6.5 chevy diesel weigh??? wouldn't it make them even move top heavy than they are and dangerous in rock crawling??
 
I would like someone to do a 5.3 or 6.0 LSx engine with 4L80E and twin turbos. 500rwhp on stock internals and no worries. If you want 1000rwhp you need forged pistons/rods and ported heads with stock intake, ported TB, larger injectors. Everything else can pretty much remain the same aside from tuning the stock PCM which can be programmed in increments of 50rpm via HP Tuners/LS1 Edit/etc.

A stock 5.3 with upgraded smog legal cam, headers, tuning will make 300rwhp easily.
 
When my 1FZ is ready for a rebuild in another 200k or so, I'm gonna be looking at a 4BT, 4L80E, HF2AV combo. Still trying to figure out if this can be done. Mark's Adapters says they make an adapter from the 4L80E to the HF2AV although I don't see it on their website. And I believe Advanced Adapters has the 4BT to 4L80E adapter.

IMHO, the 4L80E makes the A442F look like the "4Runner tranny" you all like to make fun of. ;)
 
alaskacruiser said:
When my 1FZ is ready for a rebuild in another 200k or so, I'm gonna be looking at a 4BT, 4L80E, HF2AV combo. Still trying to figure out if this can be done. Mark's Adapters says they make an adapter from the 4L80E to the HF2AV although I don't see it on their website. And I believe Advanced Adapters has the 4BT to 4L80E adapter.

IMHO, the 4L80E makes the A442F look like the "4Runner tranny" you all like to make fun of. ;)
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Why not just use an atlas III ? This is what you can do to an Atlas with a $200,000 rock buggy.
Clifton Slay has a 502 ramjet with nitrous, and 46" tires, a those tires actually messure about 48".
http://www.spydercustoms.com/movies/quicktime/sally_burnout.html

If this doesnt play, go to https://www.spydercustoms.com/index2.php click, On the trails tab, click Trails in motion, click Sally Burnout.
Then enjoy the rubber burning.
 
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