5/09 update - Prolonged Starting issues

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Mar 26, 2021
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13
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60
Location
Wilmington, NC
Hi me again.....Dealing with a weird issue that has popped up recently. A few mornings it has taken a solid 5-7 secs for my 04 LX to finally start. A few times it wouldnt start at all but would always start as normal on the second attempt. I've read a few posts and have done a few things from those posts with nothing working. It seems to be worse on cold mornings and when the fuel is low.

Here is what I've done to this point:
  • Replaced battery
  • Inspected EFI relay and fuse box. Nothing out of the ordinary/no melting that others have notices. (i have not replaced the relay)
  • New fuel pump (I have a new filter but haven't installed)
Should next steps be plugs, coils, or injectors? (I have no way to test, at least with my knowledge)
 
You mentioned it usually start on the second attempt, does the starter motor turnover faster on the second attempt than the first?
 
It is unlikely you would be able to observe the EFI fuse issue as the melting I've seen occurs inside the fuse box. The boxes have recently been discontinued, and I'd highly recommended replacing while you can still find one.
 
Well wanted to give an update because we might have dug into a deeper issue here.

My buddy owns a bunch of express tire and oil engineer centers so I dropped the LX over at his shop to dig into the issue. They can't seem to pin point anything specific as to what is causing this. They do not believe it is starter related. My buddy mentioned I should probably take it to a Toyota or engine specialist bc his techs only do routine maintenance and they suspect that there is a deeper issue here.

They pulled one plug and noticed a good bit of oil and what looks to be a chip or some scaring on the piston.....hoping that is not the case. They are going to troubleshoot a few more things then I will take it to a specialist.

Ill keep this thread updated in case anyone runs into a issue like this...
 
Went by the shop today and the latest news is that the fuel pump seems to be getting a signal but we aren’t getting fuel pressure. Any ideas there?
 
Went by the shop today and the latest news is that the fuel pump seems to be getting a signal but we aren’t getting fuel pressure. Any ideas there?

Did your buddy hook up a fuel press gauge and test the pressure from your fuel line? IIRC it should be around 40-43 psi.. and should hold us to 35-37 psi 30 min after you turn off your car. But please check the FSM and make sure I am right.
 
Hi me again.....Dealing with a weird issue that has popped up recently. A few mornings it has taken a solid 5-7 secs for my 04 LX to finally start. A few times it wouldnt start at all but would always start as normal on the second attempt. I've read a few posts and have done a few things from those posts with nothing working. It seems to be worse on cold mornings and when the fuel is low.

Here is what I've done to this point:
  • Replaced battery
  • Inspected EFI relay and fuse box. Nothing out of the ordinary/no melting that others have notices. (i have not replaced the relay)
  • New fuel pump (I have a new filter but haven't installed)
Should next steps be plugs, coils, or injectors? (I have no way to test, at least with my knowledge)
I had similar issue before. it turned out due to 3rd party blade key case. the immobilizer sensor distance just half inch longer compared with OEM key, which make it fails sometimes.

Check to see if you have changed your key case recently?
 
Pinging @2001LC @BnvS @jerryb as yall have assisted me on other issues :)
Most common cause of a long crank to start. Is fuel injector (FI) leak down. Typically, the longer the engine sits off. The longer the crank to start afterwards. But if engine running, shut down and re started moments later. It starts up fast (normal crank).

The FSM has a sequence for testing fuel pressure. In the sequence, is included fuel injector leak down test. This is done through tech stream, for first part of testing. Which I like to start testing, with a cold engine and fuel pump. It also test fuel pressure regulator and fuel pressure.

In general, FI leak down in excess of factory limit. Reduces fuel pressure and amount of fuel in rail. Then when we start cranking engine to start, fuel is not instantly available. Fuel and fuel pressure then needs extra time to build up in fuel rial, to get into combustion chamber (all 8 cylinders).

This assume the engine is well tuned. Which includes good: air filter, MAF sensor, spark plugs, coils, no vacuum leaks, throttle body perform as should, good compression, etc.

Note:
"Crank" or Cranking or turning over", is when engine can be heard turning trying to start-up (fire up), as we turn IG key to start. The 98-02 we hold key in start position during crank, until engine starts. In 03-07 Toyota installed "auto crank" feature. In which we turn IG key to start and release. Engine will crank until it starts, or about 5 seconds max. Auto crank, also prevents engaging starter, if IG key turned to start while engine running.

It's important your buddy understand. The fuel pump does not pump unless engine is cranking/turning over/running. We can run fuel pump engine off, through tech stream, but not by simple turning IG key to on..
 
I 100% agree with what @2001LC said. This is why getting a fuel pressure check done is crucial. BTW just so you are on the right track. You can hook up the fuel pressure gauge of the fuel filter exit. Get the fuel pressure gauge hooked up in line with the filter exit in the circle below. And you should be able to get the fuel pressure. Just squeeze the "Green" tab from both sized to get it out. Get some rags as they may be some pressure in the line that may squirt some gas.

Also BTW you may be able to rent a fuel pressure gauge at Autozone, but I am not 100% sure.

Let us know what you find out.

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I 100% agree with what @2001LC said. This is why getting a fuel pressure check done is crucial. BTW just so you are on the right track. You can hook up the fuel pressure gauge of the fuel filter exit. Get the fuel pressure gauge hooked up in line with the filter exit in the circle below. And you should be able to get the fuel pressure. Just squeeze the "Green" tab from both sized to get it out. Get some rags as they may be some pressure in the line that may squirt some gas.

Also BTW you may be able to rent a fuel pressure gauge at Autozone, but I am not 100% sure.

Let us know what you find out.

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That is where (fuel filter) I tap in with fuel pressure gauge. There are some master fuel pressure kits, that may have the correct fittings. But most are designed to tap into fuel rial, which is a PITA and requires replacing gaskets/washers.

I used this OTC kit with some old Toyota fuel line fittings, to build my own adapter (Seen lying in hinge of box). These OTC gauges (China made) aren't the greatest in accuracy. I plan on getting a digital gauge to adapt in some day.

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