2024 GX/Prado Release and Discussion (2 Viewers)

[Jetboy]

The marketing is definitely selling this as the new "Land Cruiser" not as a Prado. The home page shows two LC200's going away and they've been positioning it next to the LC40 and LC60. It's pretty confusing with how similar it is to the LC300 and how they are basically marketing both of them as the same thing. In fairness - they appear to actually be the same thing, so it sort of makes sense. But it's just weird to have two vehicles be the new Land Cruiser without some explanation. I'm probably more confused than ever about this decision.

And - IMO it looks a heck of a lot more like a 4Runner than it does like any of the heritage land cruisers. And the 5th gen 4Runner looks more like an FJ60 than this does.

Also - I like it generally. Looks good. Likely has great specs for a midsize BOF wagon. Toyota build quality. If pricing is reasonable it's a winner as a product. But so is the LC300. I guess just pick your favorite style?

 

[Brown98LC]

The marketing is definitely selling this as the new "Land Cruiser" not as a Prado. The home page shows two LC200's going away and they've been positioning it next to the LC40 and LC60. It's pretty confusing with how similar it is to the LC300 and how they are basically marketing both of them as the same thing. In fairness - they appear to actually be the same thing, so it sort of makes sense. But it's just weird to have two vehicles be the new Land Cruiser without some explanation. I'm probably more confused than ever about this decision.

And - IMO it looks a heck of a lot more like a 4Runner than it does like any of the heritage land cruisers. And the 5th gen 4Runner looks more like an FJ60 than this does.

Also - I like it generally. Looks good. Likely has great specs for a midsize BOF wagon. Toyota build quality. If pricing is reasonable it's a winner as a product. But so is the LC300. I guess just pick your favorite style?

The 200s thing was in relation to the brand history link

Doesn't mean going away as in to make way for the 250.


Check this link

トヨタ ランドクルーザー | ブランドヒストリー | トヨタ自動車WEBサイト

ランドクルーザーがランドクルーザーたる所以。長い年月をかけて進化し続けてきたランドクルーザーの系譜、そして長い歴史の中で紡ぎだした唯一無二の物語を紹介します。

toyota.jp

The successor of the 200 is the 300 not the 250.

I can't wait for them to update this, so we can finally put it all to rest.

40 series/ 60 series are the coolest land cruisers I guess so it would make sense they want to associate with them
70 is still in production so it would be weird to use a 70 and might be misunderstood as 70 successor when it isn't.

 

[Brown98LC]

The name Prado
Is viewed with a negative stigma
As being less than in markets where they sell
both the Land Cruiser and Land Cruiser Prado.

It's an excellent vehicle and always has been but the name Prado was negative.

So that's why they are going away from it
In markets like Japan and Australia (maybe even the Middle East).
It's sad but true.

They may still end up calling it a Prado in some markets but you would think they would have mentioned that in the Japan and Australia press info but they don't so far not a mention.

Makes sense why no mention of Prado in Europe and US obviously but Japan and Australia has been a surprise and may prove the theory above.

 

[Jetboy]

The 200s thing was in relation to the brand history link

View attachment 3384229
Doesn't mean going away as in to make way for the 250.


Check this link

トヨタ ランドクルーザー | ブランドヒストリー | トヨタ自動車WEBサイト

ランドクルーザーがランドクルーザーたる所以。長い年月をかけて進化し続けてきたランドクルーザーの系譜、そして長い歴史の中で紡ぎだした唯一無二の物語を紹介します。

toyota.jp

The successor of the 200 is the 300 not the 250.

I can't wait for them to update this, so we can finally put it all to rest.

View attachment 3384232


40 series/ 60 series are the coolest land cruisers I guess so it would make sense they want to associate with them
70 is still in production so it would be weird to use a 70 and might be misunderstood as 70 successor when it isn't.

We'll see in a few days how they intend to position it. In the "Land Cruiser Brand" video on that link - there are no LC60, LC80, LC100, LC200s or LC300's. Only LC70's. And they could have just as easily put a Prado highlight reel below. The marketing is definitely saying "this is the new Land Cruiser" vs "this is the new Prado."

The last Prado reveal and marketing was all about PRADO and not really Land Cruiser. I've yet to see Prado anywhere on marketing for the new model. It'll be interesting to see how they do the reveal both in North America and globally.

 

[malden]

And - IMO it looks a heck of a lot more like a 4Runner than it does like any of the heritage land cruisers. And the 5th gen 4Runner looks more like an FJ60 than this does.

It could be that we are in for a whale of an announcement on 8/1?

I am visiting a major US city and have been scouting out 4Runners at local dealerships. Nothing, no 4Runners, incoming all sold or with huge markups. I had to find a used 2021 TRD Pro on a used truck lot to take a test drive! But curiously nearly all the Toyota sales team and sales managers are driving 2023 4Runners. I quipped that. “they should really leave a few trucks for customers to buy”, and one sales manager said that Toyota had sent a message out to its teams that “if you want a 4Runner, you had better get it now.” This is starting to make sense. I made a few calls to the sales contacts helping me this morning and they told me they are being inundated with calls for 4Runners. Is something afoot? Landcruiser replaces 4Runner and we wind up with LC and GX, it’s the same logic and symmetry as before with one name change. If this LC falls into a $45-65K price range, the GX has room to roam above. Makes sense.

I’m going to be watching August 1.

(BTW I really liked the 4Runner, the engine and transmission fit the way I drive perfectly. Great Truck! Hats off Toyota. There is a reason they have sold so many.)

 

[LCHOU]

It could be that we are in for a whale of an announcement on 8/1.

I am visiting a major US city and have been scouting out 4Runners at local dealerships. Nothing, no 4Runners, incoming all sold or with huge markups. I had to find a used 2021 TRD Pro on a used truck lot to take a test drive! But curiously nearly all the Toyota sales team and sales managers are driving 2023 4Runners. I quipped that. “they should really leave a few trucks for customers to buy”, and one sales manager said that Toyota had sent a message out to its teams that “if you want a 4Runner, you had better get it now.” This is starting to make sense. I made a few calls to the sales contacts helping me this morning and they told me they are being inundated with calls for 4Runners. Is something afoot? Landcruiser replaces 4Runner and we wind up with LC and GX, it’s the same logic and symmetry as before with one name change. If this LC falls into a $45-65K price range, the GX has room to roam above. Makes sense.

I’m going to be watching August 1.

(BTW I really liked the 4Runner, the engine and transmission fit the way I drive perfectly. Great Truck! Hats off Toyota. There is a reason they have sold so many.)

Can't see the 4runner going away with the amount they sell.

 

[jayp2]

It could be that we are in for a whale of an announcement on 8/1.

I am visiting a major US city and have been scouting out 4Runners at local dealerships. Nothing, no 4Runners, incoming all sold or with huge markups. I had to find a used 2021 TRD Pro on a used truck lot to take a test drive! But curiously nearly all the Toyota sales team and sales managers are driving 2023 4Runners. I quipped that. “they should really leave a few trucks for customers to buy”, and one sales manager said that Toyota had sent a message out to its teams that “if you want a 4Runner, you had better get it now.” This is starting to make sense. I made a few calls to the sales contacts helping me this morning and they told me they are being inundated with calls for 4Runners. Is something afoot? Landcruiser replaces 4Runner and we wind up with LC and GX, it’s the same logic and symmetry as before with one name change. If this LC falls into a $45-65K price range, the GX has room to roam above. Makes sense.

I’m going to be watching August 1.

(BTW I really liked the 4Runner, the engine and transmission fit the way I drive perfectly. Great Truck! Hats off Toyota. There is a reason they have sold so many.)

I see 4R's avail/being shipped to east coast dealers

To make the 5th gen 4R go away right now would be an epic darwin award level move

 

[Brown98LC]

We'll see in a few days how they intend to position it. In the "Land Cruiser Brand" video on that link - there are no LC60, LC80, LC100, LC200s or LC300's. Only LC70's. And they could have just as easily put a Prado highlight reel below. The marketing is definitely saying "this is the new Land Cruiser" vs "this is the new Prado."
View attachment 3384242

The last Prado reveal and marketing was all about PRADO and not really Land Cruiser. I've yet to see Prado anywhere on marketing for the new model. It'll be interesting to see how they do the reveal both in North America and globally.
View attachment 3384246

To be honest
I would be glad if they got rid of the Prado name.

The 70 series is sold as Land Cruiser without any other names and no one has any issues with that.

I think Prado name for the time did its job but as it gets closer to the 300 than ever before and goes upmarket and possibly even cost more than in the past, it may be time to get rid of the Prado name.

Many customers upon seeing name Prado and seeing a specific price will automatically say no, not worth it. Even if it is.

So maybe we may see an end of the Prado name
I really hope so anyway.

I guess we won't really know for sure until the Middle East debut, whenever that may be.

 

[Specialeyes]

What are people's experience working with Toyota dealers to get on their radar for ordering new releases like this? Do people put down deposits and get on a formal list? Or is it more informal "call me when they're available to be ordered"? I typically spend as little time in dealerships as possible so I am not familiar with the process.

Unfortunately Toyota (or Lexus) do not allow customer specific orders. You can give the dealer your desired model, trim, options, and color and they will notify you when they are going to be receiving a build that matches your preferred spec (or as close to it as possible) and when it's your turn in the queue.

Everything else is dealer specific. Some will ask for a small, refundable deposit to have some skin in the game. (I put down $500 in 2021 when looking for my 4R TRD Pro and this was only after we agreed in writing that the sale price would be MSRP and not a penny more) Others will ask for more money down and tell you it's non refundable. (these types get a thanks but no thanks from me) Others will just put you on their list with no money exchanged. This was my experience a few months ago with Lexus when I was contemplating getting a GX460.

The other, darker cloud looming over all of this are the sucky dealers who are selling with ADM and sadly there are plenty in the Toyota space who partake. I only know of a couple here in the metroplex selling at or below MSRP today. My advice to you would be to pack some patience and then just call around until you find a dealer willing to play ball. They are out there but it sure is a chore to find them these days.

 

[Jetboy]

It could be that we are in for a whale of an announcement on 8/1.

I am visiting a major US city and have been scouting out 4Runners at local dealerships. Nothing, no 4Runners, incoming all sold or with huge markups. I had to find a used 2021 TRD Pro on a used truck lot to take a test drive! But curiously nearly all the Toyota sales team and sales managers are driving 2023 4Runners. I quipped that. “they should really leave a few trucks for customers to buy”, and one sales manager said that Toyota had sent a message out to its teams that “if you want a 4Runner, you had better get it now.” This is starting to make sense. I made a few calls to the sales contacts helping me this morning and they told me they are being inundated with calls for 4Runners. Is something afoot? Landcruiser replaces 4Runner and we wind up with LC and GX, it’s the same logic and symmetry as before with one name change. If this LC falls into a $45-65K price range, the GX has room to roam above. Makes sense.

I’m going to be watching August 1.

(BTW I really liked the 4Runner, the engine and transmission fit the way I drive perfectly. Great Truck! Hats off Toyota. There is a reason they have sold so many.)

I think that would make a lot more sense than to have a LC250 and a same-size 4Runner and the GX and LX all in the same market. But they really need something smaller like Rav4 size to fill out the lineup now. It would have been the more logical choice to just call this the next 4Runner. It looks like a new generation 4runner. It's the same market segment as the current 4R. The 4Runner has more brand recognition in the USA. And it leaves the hierarchy in place vs the LC300. I think they'd lose more than they gain by calling it Land Cruiser and dropping the 4Runner. However, I also have no idea what there is to be gained by having this Land Cruiser co-exist with the LC300. So, I clearly don't understand what Toyota is going for here. Whatever the case is - if they price this vehicle in the same space as the 4Runner - it'll be a big hit.

 

[Brown98LC]

You know what's real Prado dna though regardless if the name is there or not?

If they have a version of this grille (vertical line prado Dna) on the more luxury versions.

Not sure if the US will get any non offroad focused versions but rest of the world surely will.

You have to remember not everyone wants to look like an "overlander".

 

[Jetboy]

To be honest
I would be glad if they got rid of the Prado name.

The 70 series is sold as Land Cruiser without any other names and no one has any issues with that.

I think Prado name for the time did its job but as it gets closer to the 300 than ever before and goes upmarket and possibly even cost more than in the past, it may be time to get rid of the Prado name.

Many customers upon seeing name Prado and seeing a specific price will automatically say no, not worth it. Even if it is.

So maybe we may see an end of the Prado name
I really hope so anyway.

I guess we won't really know for sure until the Middle East debut, whenever that may be.

To me - if they are not going to build a smaller lighter version, why not instead of dropping the name, just drop the Prado line totally? There's really no reason it needs to exist vs just having the full range of trims on the LC300 along side the fortuner and LC70 in most markets and in North America the Fortuner (call it 4Runner), LC300, and Sequoia. Now that they're the same size and same platform, the LC250 doesn't offer anything that wouldn't otherwise be available by one of the LC300 trims unless they push the intro price under $45k USD. And that seems pretty unlikely.

 

[Brown98LC]

To me - if they are not going to build a smaller lighter version, why not instead of dropping the name, just drop the Prado line totally? There's really no reason it needs to exist vs just having the full range of trims on the LC300 along side the fortuner and LC70 in most markets and in North America the Fortuner (call it 4Runner), LC300, and Sequoia. Now that they're the same size and same platform, the LC250 doesn't offer anything that wouldn't otherwise be available by one of the LC300 trims unless they push the intro price under $45k USD. And that seems pretty unlikely.

Basically think of it as the entry level LC series.

The cheaper versions of the 250 should still be cheaper than a 300 and be a good sell for fleets and some people who don't want to pay more for a 300

In the past it was because it was lighter and more nimble but that's history.


Also I guess they also can style it abit braver than the more conservative 300 which has a more more stately design.

And with TNGA-F developing costs greatly reduced.

They are giving it a shot I guess and see how it works out by the end of this gen then adjust accordingly if they need to do that.

 

[Jetboy]

You know what's real Prado dna though regardless if the name is there or not?

I'm not sure that means anything in this generation. It appears to be nearly identical to the LC300. At least in GX550 form. From what info is available about the GX, it's as close to an LC300 as a 4Runner is to a Prado. There doesn't appear to be the old relationship of heavy duty vs light duty. And base trim LC300's around $45k are pretty basic. I'm not sure if Toyota will really go even lower spec on the LC250. I think it'll offer the 4cyl diesel options that won't be in an LC300. But - again that's just Toyota choosing not to offer them. They could offer an LC300 with a 2.8L diesel. They put a 1GR in it already. So, they're not opposed to putting the base level engines in.

 

[Brown98LC]

I'm not sure that means anything in this generation. It appears to be nearly identical to the LC300. At least in GX550 form. From what info is available about the GX, it's as close to an LC300 as a 4Runner is to a Prado. There doesn't appear to be the old relationship of heavy duty vs light duty.

It's not entirely identical

Upper control arms are different and look beefier on the 300 (not sure about lower)

Less underbody protection in some areas

Front bump stops - the 250 GX has a single stop, the LX600/LC300 utilizes two like the 200

Body mounts - the two largest ones in the mid section, the 300-series brackets are larger and tie into a longer section of frame

Front LCA pickup points - 300-series pickups are tighter in to the frame and would be geometrically stronger/stiffer''

Thanks ^ @TeCKis300

And I am sure other things that would also be in favor of the 300.

All this stuff does add up.

Out of the box.

I am sure you can retro fit it in the 250 but we are talking from the factory.

Please keep in mind this was based on the GX 550

Maybe the 250 LC has some differences that would change what was mentioned above.

 

[Jetboy]

I think you're trying to distinguish between the indistinct. The 2nd gen 4Runner has dual bump stops too. I'm not sure that made it better. We'll find out more when we finally get to see them in person in the real world. Might be big differences. But at this point I simply don't see those slight variations as material differences. None of those components were failure points on either the LC200 or the last Prado. Not in 100k miles. Not in a million miles. I think they are more likely just artifacts of the development process of the two different vehicles being a few years apart. Continuous improvement.

If the LC250 comes out with smaller running gear, or lighter duty ball joints or other big changes then I'll be convinced. At this point - I don't see it.

 

[Brown98LC]

I think you're trying to distinguish between the indistinct. The 2nd gen 4Runner has dual bump stops too. I'm not sure that made it better. We'll find out more when we finally get to see them in person in the real world. Might be big differences. But at this point I simply don't see those slight variations as material differences. None of those components were failure points on either the LC200 or the last Prado. Not in 100k miles. Not in a million miles. I think they are more likely just artifacts of the development process of the two different vehicles being a few years apart. Continuous improvement.

If the LC250 comes out with smaller running gear, or lighter duty ball joints or other big changes then I'll be convinced. At this point - I don't see it.

At the end of the day
For (some?) of the world we luckily have the choice of both.
Yes they are closer than ever and like you I definitely wonder why sometimes.

Lets see how it plays out for them.

You can't go wrong with either because even the old Prado was great.

I'd honestly like to talk about what more differences are between them, until someone has access to both and strips them down (Australians most likely) or when we see actual tech specs and more detailed info it'll be difficult to discuss it in detail.

I am so excited for this because it looks like it'll be a good vehicle.

 

[Phillyd2]

The Prado name is meaningless in the US and as such has no value. The JXXX reference is almost meaningless which is why they never really mention it. The LC brand on the other hand is a name they can market on - which is exactly what they are doing.

The next 4R will need to be something completely different for the reasons already mentioned.

 

[Jetboy]

At the end of the day
For (some?) of the world we luckily have the choice of both.
Yes they are closer than ever and like you I definitely wonder why sometimes.

Lets see how it plays out for them.

You can't go wrong with either because even the old Prado was great.

I agree on this! I wish they would have kept the differences as they were. It was nice to have the option of a smaller lighter model. You also get the Fortuner we don't. For us - especially if the 4Runner ends up with also similar dimensions - it's a Bed of Procrustes; here's your one size, if it doesn't fit - change your needs to make it fit. (Fortunately it is actually about the size I like, so I would end up with 4 options that fit pretty well, but I'd still rather have a bit of range in size).

 

[TeCKis300]

In the end, what's in a name. That's a branding and marketing exercise and there's plenty of non-logical progressions depending on how they want to posture things.

Land Cruiser has traditionally represented top dog with go anywhere capability and dependability. That interpretation in the context of world vs USDM market is different and changing. In the US market, Land Cruiser as a brand may only mean top dog within the US Toyota brand. They will use whatever chassis, drivetrain, and trim they determine is right for that role and price point. Not necessarily equating to what a Land Cruiser is in other markets.

In the larger Toyota context which includes Lexus, it's getting increasingly obvious Land Cruiser as branded for the US has a place in a larger lineup. There's going to be at least 2 vehicles postured clearly above it. Don't take that as necessarily better (so no one gets butt hurt), but objectively, the 2 vehicles above it will have more. Whatever more means in terms of structure, power, luxury, etc. Part of that branding may also mean they may be tailored for different types of owners as it's wholly possible to have overlap or adjacent models and trims. Like Sequoia to LC.

A possible interpretation of the body on frame lineup
4Runner < Sequoia / LC < GX550 < LX600