2009 Intermittent Starting Issues - Help Appreciated

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kah1593

10 Year
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Mar 18, 2013
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2009 with 115K miles. Vehicle is garage kept in Pennsylvania, extremely well taken care of and driven delicately by my wife. We experienced some intermittent starting issues in the last few weeks with colder than normal weather. Prior to start, the systems and gauge cluster initiate with no issues. When we go through the starting procedure and hit the start button nothing happens (does not crank). The issue happens 3 out of 10 starts and seems not to work once the vehicle has sat for 24 hours.

I have replaced the remote batteries and engine battery and the issue remains. Note, the vehicle is not reading any codes through my OBDII scanner. I do realize OBDII scanners do not pick up faulty starters, but my intuition tells me it is not the starter.

Oddly enough when it does not start I cycle the down the gears and back up again and the engine starts. Could there be something to the gear mechanism where it does not recognizes it is in Park (although the dash readout says it is in Park)? Or is this just a dumb coincidence?

I cringe at the thought of taking to the dealer and have them go on a wild goose chase to diagnose the problem while wasting my time and money. I value this communities input so much more than my dealership. Any and all of your help and ideas would be appreciated.
 
My money is on the starter. Not only this is a common issue with the 200 series, but the symtom also seems to be consistent with other cars with starter issue.
 
kah1593 said:
2009 with 115K miles. Vehicle is garage kept in Pennsylvania, extremely well taken care of and driven delicately by my wife. We experienced some intermittent starting issues in the last few weeks with colder than normal weather. Prior to start, the systems and gauge cluster initiate with no issues. When we go through the starting procedure and hit the start button nothing happens (does not crank). The issue happens 3 out of 10 starts and seems not to work once the vehicle has sat for 24 hours.

I have replaced the remote batteries and engine battery and the issue remains. Note, the vehicle is not reading any codes through my OBDII scanner. I do realize OBDII scanners do not pick up faulty starters, but my intuition tells me it is not the starter.

Oddly enough when it does not start I cycle the down the gears and back up again and the engine starts. Could there be something to the gear mechanism where it does not recognizes it is in Park (although the dash readout says it is in Park)? Or is this just a dumb coincidence?

I cringe at the thought of taking to the dealer and have them go on a wild goose chase to diagnose the problem while wasting my time and money. I value this communities input so much more than my dealership. Any and all of your help and ideas would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

It's been 3 weeks since I posted about this problem. The vehicle continues to start 98% of the time. The question I am struggling with is if the culprit is the starter, is it typical for starters to continue to work intermittently? If so, I must be wrong with my assumption that starters fail catastrophically.
 
kah1593 said:
It's been 3 weeks since I posted about this problem. The vehicle continues to start 98% of the time. The question I am struggling with is if the culprit is the starter, is it typical for starters to continue to work intermittently? If so, I must be wrong with my assumption that starters fail catastrophically.
Click to expand...

The answer to your question is yes, starters can and often fail intermittently before catastrophic failure.
 
My hundy would start just fine for a week, then take three key twists or a few "oh crud" moments when the starter went out.

Replaced the starter and started first time every time. The biggest change i noticed was that there was a slight delay from turning the key as the starter would get bad, a new starter fires right off. If you are attentive, you will notice the delay of starter contacts on their way out.
 
As everyone has already mentioned, those symptoms are 95% indicative of the starter. More specifically, the starter relay/solenoid that is piggybacked on the starter:
forum.ih8mud.com

Starter Solenoid Failure Mode

Had some time to poke around in the garage, so figured I'd finally tear into the failed starter that I changed out a few weeks ago. Not starter specifically, but the solenoid/relay that is attached to the starter (bottom cylinder in picture). It's this high current relay built into the back...
forum.ih8mud.com forum.ih8mud.com

You're on borrowed time and it would be to your benefit to resolve this ASAP. Some, including myself, never get warning before it craps out completely requiring a tow.

As you're at 115k miles, if you haven't already, would also be a good time to address some other maintenance items/Achilles heals of the 200-series. Namely radiator and water pump/tensioner/idler.
 
kah1593 said:
It's been 3 weeks since I posted about this problem. The vehicle continues to start 98% of the time. The question I am struggling with is if the culprit is the starter, is it typical for starters to continue to work intermittently? If so, I must be wrong with my assumption that starters fail catastrophically.
Click to expand...

The issue with these isn’t often the starter motor itself, it is the solenoid that controls the current going to it. These have been a problem for toyota on various models and powertrains for literally decades.

If you want to save a couple hundred bucks you can have just the solenoid changed, but the work to get in there is the same.
 
Also another way to confirm whether or not it is the solenoid or maybe some other part of the electrical system, there is a way to bypass the solenoid with a very long screwdriver. Many on this forum have used that method to get their vehicles to a place they can be worked on. Requires two people, fwiw.
 
After putting this off for several weeks, I finally replaced the starter. I purchased the new version OEM part (blue label) from Camelback Toyota for $383 delivered. I opted to use my trusted local mechanic who charged $550 for labor. He did not have to remove the exhaust manifold, but like others said just needed to loosen the bolts. In the end I think I got a great deal of $933 for a new OEM starter installed. Toyota quoted me a range of $1,100 to $1,600 - which included full retail price of $575 for the starter and between $500 to $1,000 for labor.

The new starter has a very different cranking sound, it seems to turn faster with a much higher and tighter pitch. Seems to turn the engine over markedly faster than the original, even considering the wear on the original unit.

If anyone is interested in purchasing the original OEM starter for a rebuild please message me, I will let it go for peanuts. I just would like to someone to repurpose it rather than go to the recycling bin. If I cannot sell it, I may take it apart to look for degradation in the solenoid or main unit.
 
After replacing the key fob batteries, vehicle battery and starter, the vehicle does not start. It worked flawlessly for a week before going completely dead. I am going to replace the starter relay and hope this was the culprit. Anyone have other ideas of what it could be? Starter button?
 
Swapped out the starter relay with matching working relay from the fuse box. The engine still did not start. After sitting for a while it started again and it is now back with my mechanic for further diagnosis. My fear is that there could be a ghost issue.

For some reason I have a sneaking suspicion it is related to the gear box. Could the Park gear not be engaged to fool the ignition?
 
Just to eliminate the button as culprit, do you ever try to remote start it when the button fails to start?

Does the vehicle go to the 'on' state when trying to start? Or does it stay in the off or go into the acc state?
 
Great idea trying to use the remote starter to troubleshoot the start button, since the shop has it now I will pass this on to them.

The vehicle clearly goes into the 'on' state when trying to start. All signals, indicators and systems initiate as expected.
 
My mechanic could not diagnose a failure point to my intermittent starting issue. After a little more research on the site I found an earlier generation post of someone having the identical problem and traced the issue to the neutral safety switch. Since I am out of options at this point I will replace this and hope this is the culprit. Anyone else replace their neutral safety switch on their 200 series?
 
Delete. Just reread the starter has been eliminated as the cause.
 
Any updates? Dealing with similar intermittent issues, but on a 2013 with 109k miles 🤔

Don't mind replacing the starter but something tells me that's not it. Seems more like a relay or a short. Or like the truck thinks it's being stolen and prohibits the start. It's not like the starter tries or engine tries to crank, just dead. And I don't even get the interior power. Not going to go into too much of my details yet, but if you have any ideas for me please PM. Curious what OP figures out.
 
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