1hz steering pump failure nightmare

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pominoz87

pominoz87

10 Year
Joined
Feb 16, 2014
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1
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14
Hi, just looking for some advice on my '97 hzj80 1hz.

Power steering pump failed the other day so started what looked like an easy job replacing the pump only to find to my horror the gear absolutely ruinesd. What else would this have damaged and where do I begin? :rolleyes:

After a lot of research can see the power steering gear connects to the idlr gear which I presume is also ruined, so will have to remove everything on front of timing cover and assess the gears?

Thanks
 
I have no idea what would have caused the gears to get chewed up. Normally the pump gears outlast the pump internals.
Had anyone removed or replaced the pump before the mishap?
You might be able to assess the gears by turning the engine over and looking through the hole the pump came out of ,maybe using a small mirror etc but I've never had to do it.
Of course , you most likely have small chunks of metal sitting at the bottom of the timing case that need to be removed.
 
I will be interested in what you find behind the cover, and what caused the gears to fail.(steering pump bearing?).
When I dropped the oil pan in my IHD-T I found a whole bunch of gear teeth.(I think I screamed in horror at the time) There was after market gasket goo on the gear housing so iI figured that is where the bits had come from. The P.O has died so could not find out what happened. My engine runs fine and there are no issues with my timing gears.
You will need to drop your pan and flush your oil passages to get all the bits out. .

20131103_163344.webp
 
Damn that's a scary picture!i had no idea the debris would make it into the oil?how does it get there?theres oil behind the timing cover?so to take a look at the other gears it's off with timing belt, cam, crank pulley and the timing cover?also the vacuum pump does that run off the idler also?this is really the first time I've had to take apart anything on my 80 been a reliable beast so far, although a power steering pump causing so much damage seems a bit of an oversight!
 
pominoz87 said:
Damn that's a scary picture!i had no idea the debris would make it into the oil?how does it get there?theres oil behind the timing cover?so to take a look at the other gears it's off with timing belt, cam, crank pulley and the timing cover?also the vacuum pump does that run off the idler also?!
Click to expand...

The lower ends of the crank gear are bathed in the engine oil. There is a couple pieces to the timing cover, you may not have to remove them all. I don't think you will need any gaskets but you will need a quality sealant.
Its not such a bad job once you get into it, lots of nuts and bolts though of different length so make sure you lay them out in some sort of order.
If you have high klms ,you may want to consider doing the water pump ,timing belt/idler.

1HZ-timing-gears.jpg
 
OK thanks mate I'll take it apart in the week and take some pictures of what I find, how did you go about clearing the oil passages without pulling the engine?Also is the special tool required to remove the cam and crank pulleys to take off the timing cover? Thanks for your help
 
As to all the cover bolts in various lengths, a little trick from a Japanese engineer I know at Honda.

Japanese engineers design parts and hardware with a simple and foolproof way of knowing which bolt goes where in an assembly.

If you place the part - cover in this case, on the engine and install two bolts finger tight to hold it in place. Next start placing all the remaining bolts in the places you think they should be. Do not thread them in, but push them until they bottom out.

All the bolt heads should protrude the same distance above the seat/flat they contact. If not, move around until they do. Simple and easy in case you forget where a bolt goes and to double check.

Doug
 
I did not have to pump oil through my system to clear it out, as the damage was done long before I got her. There are a couple of posts I have seen on how to flush your oil system.I cut my oil filter apart and examined the element for tiny bits but found none, so I am confident they all flushed through to the pan.
I sure will be interested to see your pics when you get in there. How many klicks on the rig? You will have to drop the pan to clean the bits out,might as well change the bebs for the extra $100 or so in parts and 2 hrs work. lots of posts on how to do it.
This pics shows damage to the bearing surface done by the gear bits.

20131103_163300.webp
 
pominoz87 said:
OK thanks mate I'll take it apart in the week and take some pictures of what I find, how did you go about clearing the oil passages without pulling the engine?Also is the special tool required to remove the cam and crank pulleys to take off the timing cover? Thanks for your help
Click to expand...

Hopefully the broken bits will all be laying around the bottom of the sump or timing cover.
No special tools that I can think of ,just some good pullers.
The bolt on the crank pulley can be tight. I used the weight of the vehicle to turn the extension bar (make sure the wheels are chocked and hand brake on fully) and others have used the starter motor with success.
 
ticoman said:
I did not have to pump oil through my system to clear it out, as the damage was done long before I got her. There are a couple of posts I have seen on how to flush your oil system.I cut my oil filter apart and examined the element for tiny bits but found none, so I am confident they all flushed through to the pan.
I sure will be interested to see your pics when you get in there. How many klicks on the rig? You will have to drop the pan to clean the bits out,might as well change the bebs for the extra $100 or so in parts and 2 hrs work. lots of posts on how to do it.
This pics shows damage to the bearing surface done by the gear bits.
Click to expand...

How did the crank like sharing its space with hard gear bits....
 
OK, so nearly finished getting down to gear cover just the crank bolt left to go, !maybe should have loosened with the belt on?

Turned crank clockwise until both pulleys were aligned at bdc and then removed the belt and both pulleys. Number 1 pulley shifted 2-3 cogs while undoing the bolt, but i presume thats ok because the crank is at bdc? As long as its put back to the marking.

Now, a bit worried about the crank bolt - plan is to fabricate holding tool and use impact to get it off. I'm worried though that while using the gun the crank will move off bdc. As I understand it its all good as long as its at bdc but there is no mark on the crank pulley I can only see the line for tdc on the block?
 
The crank was fine thank god. I checked all of the journals and they were smooth .That is one tough crank. This was the only evidence I could find,and when I run my nail over the area I could not feel any groove .

20131103_141601_resized_1.webp
 
Ok, bit of an update had a chance after work to take apart te rest, everything is off now apart from the crank bolt. Took off vacuum pump which gave me a chance to look at a section of the idler gear which does appear a bit scuffed, vacuum gear is also stuffed. Stuck magnet in hole and plenty of lovely shards of metal in there...

Just need to remove this crank bolt now' I'm sure if I put a impact or put weight of car on it it will budge but how do I stop it from turning the crank?the timin belt is not on so wouldn't it screw the motor?anyone in aus know any shops that have some sort of holding tool ?im not sure if the impact gun would just shock the bolt off and not turn the crank?

Also anyone any idea how much a steering, vacuum and idler gear set me back presuming the others are ok *fingers crossed!* thanks for your help guys really appreciate it, not found any info on the net about this happening to anyone...
 
good luck, would appreciate it if you kept us informed on your progress in this. Pics would be great too.
 
pominoz87 said:
Just need to remove this crank bolt now' I'm sure if I put a impact or put weight of car on it it will budge but how do I stop it from turning the crank?the timin belt is not on so wouldn't it screw the motor?anyone in aus know any shops that have some sort of holding tool ?im not sure if the impact gun would just shock the bolt off and not turn the crank?

...
Click to expand...

No holding tool,just put it high gear and chock the wheels. Lowering the vehicle with a breaker bar resting against the concrete works fine ,you have a 2 tons of landcruiser working with you.
Using the starter motor also works.
Many mechanics do it this way.

All the pulleys have timing marks on them and can only be fitted one way including the crank pulley.Its not hard to align them once all the necessary work is done.
Before you restart the engine , turn it over by hand a few revolutions.If nothing touches or jams the engine ,you have done it correctly.
 
Car is in 5th with handbrake on and wheels chocked, I can still turn the crank anti clockwise freely with a breaker bar, I do it maybe quarter of a turn maybe there is play in it and I can do it more, won't pistons hit valves if I turn it any more without belt on?maybe you turn it so far and then the drive line 'locks up'?
 
Alright this job is becoming a pain been at thebo?t four hours,impact gun no luck, I can get some decent torque on breaker bar but the crank will just turn, will pistons hit valves if I keep going?, at bdc at the moment, with breaker bar its just turning to tdc, no belts on
 
if you have been turning for 4 hours then you have already gone through the full cycle.
place socket on crank bolt
put breaker bar on top of the frame going against the turn
get in vehicle, put in neutral or foot on clutch, turn key once
get out and remove bolt by hand.
 
Starter method I haven't tried I'm sure it will get it off, what I'm worried is that because the belts are off, once the bolt breaks the crank will turn enough to hit valves??is there something I don't get about it I was under the impression if the crank is moved without the cams then its an interference engine and would smash into each other?:frown:
 
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