1970 model claimed to have "factory constant 4WD"?

[Aussie FJ40]

this appears to have no free wheelin hubs,pics are in a post here somewhere

 

[Living in the Past]

I'm actually sceptical of this 1976 one being an official Toyota prototype too..

Possibly Toyota experimental engineers may have fiddled with a Borg Warner transfer case in one of their 40-series. But I think the term "prototype" should be reserved for when Toyota has made something of their own (which, in keeping with their usual quality standards would have ended up superior than the Borg Warner).

But even this lacks credibility for me.. Why hasn't anyone shown pictures of this Borg Warner transfercase installed? (Is the installation THAT unprofessional??)

(And this Borg Warner transfer incorporated a chain drive for heaven sake!)

And why would Toyota even seriously consider producing a so-called "full-time 4WD" when that technology wasn't yet in demand?

"Full-time 4WD" (with centre diff) has only two possible advasntages from where I sit:

• It is cheaper to produce, and
• It suits the lazy non-technical driver because locking the centre diff (and thus equipping the vehicle to drive like an ordinary cruiser whose transfer lever has been pulled back into 4WD) can be achieved easily with just the push of button (or flick of a switch).

I believe back in the 70s, most 4WD drivers were like we (here on MUD) are now... They used these vehicles for what they were designed for (as farmers or forestry workers etc) or as (recreation) etc. We appreciate the extra control offered by all the levers and love getting to know how to use them properly.

Contrast that with today, where we indeed HAVE the market for "full-time 4WD". Nowadays most buyers of new 4WDs buy them merely as a status symbol and they don't want to stress out figuring which lever to push where. They just want a button to push when their 4WD doesn't keep moving properly in the direction they're pointing it (which is probably up to the ski field to drink some more Chardonney).

Toyota wasn't stupid.. I very much doubt it would have put serious money into developing a cruiser for a market that didn't yet exist..

Tom Besides being professionally done it was all done with all metric hardware.

As for these being bought by hunters and off-road enthusiasts that was the case but it was also one of the DD in the family. Most people could not a afford buy a new vehicle and let it sit until they were ready to go off road. They were logging way more miles on pavement. Because of the size of the US driving a hundred miles or more to use it off road. So free wheeling hubs made sense. If you look at most of these hubs the design makes the age of the vehicle. As for full time 4WD to me it's a must for our DDs. I like the handling better on the highway but it's for driving where there might be black ice. While the 80 series with their E-lockers are a great off road vehicle the 100 series with traction and stability control are hands down better for the original owner who didn't spent 50K on a vehicle to use primary as off road vehicle. I believe on road safety is why starting with the 80 series a part time 4WD LC was no longer offered in the US. Part time 4wd has the same problem as E-Lockers which is intended for off road use. If you driving on pavement you can't lock either the transfer case or the axles without doing harm. If you hit a spot of black ice your not going to be able to lock the vehicle. This why modern technology comes in. Because Northern AZ is a high desert it has large temperature swings. The norm is above freezing during the day and below freezing at night. SO for days after it snow they is a possibility of black ice. I don't think the full time 4WD has anything to do with cost or someone being lazy I think it has to do with safety for it intended market. Why Toyota didn't peruse the full time 4WD in 76 and waited until 1990 when they made it standard is anyone guess. Did it have to do with the chain drive transfer case? But it shows me by 1975 Toyota was already thinking of full time 4WD for the North American Market. Maybe it wasn't until the 80 series that Toyota felt comfortable with the transfer case they developed to market it for sale. These two 76s are a mystery as to how much did Toyota testing of them before scarping the idea. Unlike a new model where they clad it with phony panels to disguise it for real world testing these 76s would need no disguise. Unless you did a close inspection and knew what to look for you would have no idea it was different than any other FJ40 on the road. But because of the mileage on the odometer and condition of the floor mats I doubt much testing was done. Why one is in AZ and the other produced two months later is on the east coast. The one in AZ was donated to a school in Phoenix so I figure it was brought to AZ by Toyota. The one back east is owned by one of the LC specialty vendors. Where they bought it from I don't know. It was pictured on their web site at one time and still may be.

 

[JohnnyC]

When looking into this ... unfortunitly I didnt get very far.

Most of the people that I talked to came to the same conclusion... we have no record... but... that was long enough ago that nobody still remains at the companies who would know... and any records would be burried within files boxed away and in storage someplace.

from previous conversation:
"I am thinking it was aisin-warner ....they got the units or had the units...and were trying them out on a few trucks as toyota owns AW...or basically a combination of AW and Toyota...and borg-warner was out of the loop....sort of lets try this out for our selves.

toyota had also a testing facility in CA during that time...i believe its actually still there or just recently moved."

Also AW has a facility within close proximity to the ann arbor MI toyota technical center... from reading ... the AW used to be within this facility and a dedicated facility was formed much later... and only 15 min drive away

the only place i have not heard anything from was AW... i had alot of correspondents with Toyota and with Borg-Warner .... but... not them

 

[Living in the Past]

I know Toyota had a proving ground in the Phoenix area back in the early nineties. I did some HVAC work at a new building on the property. If the proving ground was older I'm not sure. I do know because of the heat there are proving grounds scatter around the area. I'm guessing the reason why the Phoenix area and not Yuma is in the middle of winter the big executives would find a excuse to visit so they could come to Phoenix and play golf in the middle of winter then call it a business trip.

Not sure why it ended up being donated to a Phoenix school but it did. I live less then ten miles from the school. My old house was less then five. I do not ever remember seeing it parked at that school but non of my kids went there and from what the PO told me it was kept inside the auto shop.

Johnny do you have any good pictures of the one back east? The file of pictures I was suppose to get wasn't there.

 

[JohnnyC]

I am looking for the pics.... i see lots from the AZ truck... i think i may have them saved on email ... just got one of the side shot outside... i believe the ones i had gotten were from you.

Did Toyota go thru alot of trouble to make these... probably... but... trial and error starts someplace

Look at this one-off show truck from Toyota in 1973.... tokyo motor show ... love to know where this truck is today

 

[lostmarbles]

Really intriguing stuff flowing here!

I understand Toyota did some research and development even here in little ol' New Zealand.

I was in a 4x4 club around 1979 with a guy who taught engineering at a local Polytechnic and claimed he was given a brand new Toyota every year in return for his R&D assistance. I know he was definitely pioneering the use of turbos on Toyota B-series diesels back then. And he most certainly always drove brand-new Toyota 4x4s because I remember how envious I was in my 1965 Series 2A Landrover! So I saw no reason to doubt him. As well as that evidence of his engineering skill, when I went round his place one time I saw a mini-4x4 (or perhaps just 4x2 ... I can't remember now) he'd built for his son which was extremely well-engineered..

And I take your point about distances being much larger on the American continent LINP. (We're never too far from off-roading opportunities here.)

I know "full-time 4WD" has its followers. And driving in icy-highway conditions is certainly a common situation where advantage is claimed. But I guess I like to "feel the ice" because I'm always one for leaving my cruiser in 2WD for as long as I possibly can in those conditions. I admit to liking the fun I get from the odd rear-end-twitch, and it means I know exactly how much grip (or lack there-of) I'm getting for my front wheels (vital for steering) and for any braking I may need to do. So I think this method helps me to adjust my speed to how slippery the conditions are.

Each to his or her own .... as they say...

And if I were to be in a hurry hauling heavy loads ... as people operating a business often are ... perhaps I'd be prepared to sacrifice "having fun" and "getting vehicle-feedback about the road surface" ... and more inclined to want a system that spreads the tractive effort across all 4 wheels (to thereby make any one of them less likely to break it's grip) with the aim of getting from A to B faster..

 

[JohnnyC]

east coast cruiser pics that I have

 

[Living in the Past]

Same pictures I have. Curious where is spent it's life. It appears to been freshen up at one time. It does have a earlier heater.

 

[JohnnyC]

possibly replaced .... possibly never came with one? and put in later? when it came to the east coast... however the other one is in the 'hot' place and does have one... another oddity

 

[Living in the Past]

I guess if you could inspect the cowl vent you could see if had a working vent or not. Non heater model still had a operating vent at that time. Other markets it's was weld closed. I'm guessing it did. Did any other LHD market get the 80 as a full time 4WD as the only option? I think North America was the target market for these. Since the frame was modified at the time it was put together these were planned for the mod from the start. If the frame showed signs of the torque tube being later then you might think they pulled a LHD that was planned for a non heater market and pulled if off the line. The two month difference in production is interesting too. Were they any other changes besides the location of the knob to lock the transfer case. Maybe you can get hold of the east coast owner and get a few. I have more of the west coast one that were taken at a different time I don't believe you have.

 

[Living in the Past]

I'm actually sceptical of this 1976 one being an official Toyota prototype too.

I don't think it was mentioned before the VIN plate under the hood do not list the transmission as H41 or H42 but M42. I still believe Toyota did the conversion to full time 4WD. But like you mentioned Tom the Borg/Warner wasn't the greatest setup which may explain why Toyota dropped the idea until they came up with their own version in the 80 series. Just the Torsen limited slip/locker that was patented in 1958 but because of the cost to make the tight worm gears they mainly saw use in race cars and military vehicles. Since 2003 Toyota has used Torsen design in some of their 4WD transfer cases. I believe today any Toyota transfer case that has a full time option has it including the Land Cruiser. Sometimes it takes time for technology to catch up with ideas to bring them to real world use.

 

[cuencanolenny]

I have a 1970 Non-USA FJ40 I bought here in Ecuador. It did not have locking hubs. But a person would still have to shift the transfer case into 4WD Hi or Lo in order to activate it. And I am not aware of a transmission/transfer case that can't be shifted into 2WD Hi. But I am no expert, just can't imagine how that transfer case and transmission would operate. So without the locking hubs the front axle is always being driven. I added WARN hubs after the Aisan hubs I ordered were fine spline and mine has the 6 spline hubs. It costs a lot of money to ship stuff down here so I didn't want to mess with finding parts and swapping them around as the local mechanic had completely rebuilt the axle from hub to hub and addition of the WARN hubs was pretty straightforward and doesn't require disassembly of the knuckle.
On a side note, my wife (who is native Ecuadorian) often comments that "Never in my life did I think I would live in the United States." Now that we are retired to Ecuador she comments she never thought she would live in Cuenca which resides high in the Andes. I was always a fan of the Robert Redford movie "Jeremiah Johnson" and remember Del saying he had heard the Rockies were but foothills to the Rockies. Having been through a lot of the Rockies and the area where the movie was made I can say that I never thought I would be four wheeling in the Andes. The attached photos aren't that great, some cloud cover and showers moved in and messes with the auto focus. In the third picture you can sort of make out a roof on the right side of the picture. The road ended there and we were still several hundred feet above a stream I could see at the bottom. At the little church I jumped out and locked the hubs and we used 4WD Lo in 2nd gear to climb back out, no issues, and 2WD probably would have done it, but it is very narrow and I saw no point in pushing my luck, need to work the 4WD every now and then anyway. So I'm including them only for those of you who haven't seen this countryside. Oh, Cuenca resides at 8,400 feet and I climbed to a little over 9,000 ft before dropping down a couple of thousand feet into this canyon.

 

[JuanJ]

Hello,

What about an "honest used car salesman" who has mistaken the dash-mounted transfer control levers for the full time 4WD system?

A Cruiser with a floor missing the transfer lever can lead its seller to think it is either a prototype or a different model.





Juan

 

[Living in the Past]

I am not aware of a transmission/transfer case that can't be shifted into 2WD Hi. But I am no expert, just can't imagine how that transfer case and transmission would operate. So without the locking hubs the front axle is always being driven.

These have been around since the seventies. Jeep had a version called Quadra Tract in the Wagoneer back in 73. All Land Cruisers imported to the US since the first 80 series has been full time 4WD. My forth generation 4Runner V8 is full time 4WD. The transfer case works like a diff with a E-locker/air locker. Runs open most of the time then locked as needed. Just like any other type locker requires amount tire slippage.

Hello,

What about an "honest used car salesman" who has mistaken the dash-mounted transfer control levers for the full time 4WD system?

A Cruiser with a floor missing the transfer lever can lead its seller to think it is either a prototype or a different model..

The two 76 model FJ40s that are around have alot more then a knob on the dash. No missing transfer case lever but rather a shifter on the other side than another FJ40. Custom cut floor mat, stamped skid plate to match T/T, adapter to use the hand brake on the transfer case, shifting plate on the glove box. The one that would be hardest to do any place but the factory is the custom torque tube behind the transfer case. This tube and the one further back are install while the frame is put together. Because the T/T is longer on the passenger's the tube is welded to a custom set of holes further back. The original stock set of holes in the box frame are clean with no sign anything was ever welded to them. Unless the frame was taken apart to put in the new tube to install one later it would require making at least one larger hole to install it because of the boxed frame.







Juan[/QUOTE]

 

[n2666s]

have a 74 LHD pig with long range tank, fairey overdrive and constant 4WD; only 4WD option is 4w low or 4w hi; just wondering her history and where she came from; have had her close to 20 years and is our DD didn't know she was such a rare pig
Lou

 

[BrianSanDiego]

have a 74 LHD pig with long range tank, fairey overdrive and constant 4WD; only 4WD option is 4w low or 4w hi; just wondering her history and where she came from; have had her close to 20 years and is our DD didn't know she was such a rare pig
Lou

That's cool! Feel free to post pics if you feel inclined. Everyone loves pics!

 

[n2666s]

am putting on electric power steering and AC................ will post some later this week

 

[n2666s]

installed Sanden Compressor and full AC mated to an original underdash unit courtesy Roy at Vintage Air 1-800-862-6658 extension 108 and a BIG thank you to Jim Doty Tuscaloosa @ Jim Doty Automotive 6000 McFarland Blvd. E Unit 6 Tuscaloosa AL 35405 who did the hard work installing it BTW he likes Land Cruisers

 

[n2666s]

all the time 4WD front

View attachment 2121528

 

[n2666s]

I wimped out after shoulder surgery

and decided had to go with some kind of power steering; was going to go with hydraulics off an FJ 60 BUT this option did it; thanks to Ken 1-858-774-4610 at epowersteering.com who steered Jim Doty and myself through the "minefield" it works great!
Jim Doty did this while we have been trying to get the parts for front rebuild.