100 Series LX470 8HP swap

[Papa Wickey]

So the little off-topic VSS code is after looking through another thread the two reasons you could have a P0500 CEL are that the transfer case vehicle speed sensor is faulty or that you are cluster is failing due to age. The combo meter could have a discrepancy between it and the VSS leading to the code. I also just figured that I would have my cluster refreshed anyway.

I’m probably going to grab the LUTZ speedo corrector once I get back home and that is probably what’s going to give the speed sensor input to the turbolamik, I already got the map sensor I needed so I will need a pigtail harness for that and some new vacuum lines so I can plumb it in.

 

[Papa Wickey]

Hi guys,

The starter bolts present an issue for sure. The Adamat version “doesn’t appear” to allow starter removal either. Is the smaller bell housing version a good option, or does this compromise something else?

The N57 bell housing pattern is the 8hp communities first choice for eight speed swaps. It’s an I6 bell housing and fits in a lot of cars and you got the M57 diesel having the 70 transmission to handle higher torque though people have built 8hp50 transmissions to handle a good amount of power.
It’s just unfortunate that there’s a very narrow range of n57 pattern transmissions in the US being mostly diesel X5s and a handful of diesel 5 series

 

[Papa Wickey]

“N63 8hp70 w/adapter 27.1875" Forgove me, that’s the BMW all wheel drive trans? With the thinner Domiworks BMW to Toyota Transfer case adapter is only 3/8 longer than stock Toyota a343? Am I understanding that correctly? Yeah 3/8 months is not much at all. With the engine adapter on it or need to add the thickness with engine adapter that is another 20mm?

Sorry just want to understand this and make informed decisions.

The dodge 8HP Domiworks claimed with the Dodge to Toyota adapter was pushing nearly 2.8 inches longer.

From Domniworks



787 mm 30.98 inches ! Compared to 27 3/16

Just now seeing this, the reasoning on why the adapter is thicker: the ram/dodge 4x4/awd transmissions have the thicker adapter due to the output shaft/tail section isn't a flat plane like the bmw
RAM trans

BMW trans

The benefit of the BMW is it's shorter overall stack but you need to replace the input shaft on the case vs the ram adapter could theoretically work on a 93-02 transfer case with the A343F 4 speed as the dodge adapter uses a spud shaft.

 

[TrailBornRunner]

Also now that I have both transmission side-by-side, A343f is 69cm and my 8hp with adapters is 72cm, so about an 1 3/16" difference. I also take back on my (easy) ability to notch for the starter, the top driver side bellhousing bolt for the 8hp is almost in line with that starter bolt, would take a serious redesign of the bellhousing moving a bolt hole. Kind of justifies the cost of importing an 8hp with the smaller bell from overseas, at least for those not able to weld to the belhousing.

 

[obe12]

Also now that I have both transmission side-by-side, A343f is 69cm and my 8hp with adapters is 72cm, so about an 1 3/16" difference. I also take back on my (easy) ability to notch for the starter, the top driver side bellhousing bolt for the 8hp is almost in line with that starter bolt, would take a serious redesign of the bellhousing moving a bolt hole. Kind of justifies the cost of importing an 8hp with the smaller bell from overseas, at least for those not able to weld to the belhousing.

Thank you for the detailed side my side explanation.

Would it be possible, to make access holes in your correct bell housing , rubber plug it ?

Or create stress points for cracking ?

Thanks


Tex

 

[TrailBornRunner]

Thank you for the detailed side my side explanation.

Would it be possible, to make access holes in your correct bell housing , rubber plug it ?

Or create stress points for cracking ?

Thanks


Tex

What I'm going to end up doing is notching out the holes and weld in aluminum tubing to kind of put some rigidity back into the bellhousing. In this picture it kind of gives an idea of where i'll have to put the tubing, will have to move the bolt hole over an inch on the driver side, so I'll have to build up that empty spot up with aluminum and mill the mounting boss

 

[obe12]

What I'm going to end up doing is notching out the holes and weld in aluminum tubing to kind of put some rigidity back into the bellhousing. In this picture it kind of gives an idea of where i'll have to put the tubing, will have to move the bolt hole over an inch on the driver side, so I'll have to build up that empty spot up with aluminum and mill the mounting bossView attachment 4171556

Sounds doable…. The welding to the case would great to reinforce the area.

Welding to the case, is that maybe like a sand casting, weldable by tig? My lack of knowledge here…

 

[TrailBornRunner]

Sounds doable…. The welding to the case would great to reinforce the area.

Welding to the case, is that maybe like a sand casting, weldable by tig? My lack of knowledge here…

To be honest I'm not sure either, going to try with spool gun first, if that doesn't work, then tig it, and if that doesn't work, I'll be sad haha. But I've seen it done on other transmissions, so it should work on this one.

 

[Papa Wickey]

What I'm going to end up doing is notching out the holes and weld in aluminum tubing to kind of put some rigidity back into the bellhousing. In this picture it kind of gives an idea of where i'll have to put the tubing, will have to move the bolt hole over an inch on the driver side, so I'll have to build up that empty spot up with aluminum and mill the mounting bossView attachment 4171556

You could also reach out to Daniel, he’s very responsive to revisions. I did also just look at trying to find a n57 trans but they are few and far between. At least without going on eBay and doing freight shipping.

 

[Papa Wickey]

Alright, finally back from work trip and I should have around $3k or so to put towards the swap so I'll be ordering the lamik + harness shortly but I am also thinking since I will be losing ATRAC with the ZF swap I'm gonna give this transfer torsen from PDI a shot. PDI Transfer Torsen suits 80, 100 and 105 Full time Transfer Case - Performance Diesel Intercoolers Australia | 4WD Performance Parts - https://performancedieselintercoolers.com.au/product/pdi-transfer-torsen-for-full-time-transfer-case/

I figure I might be able to do some BTM/left foot braking to make up for the loss of ATRAC since I don't yet have lockers at this time. Hoping to be splitting the 3F HF2A case in the next week or so.

The GX and 200 series have a torsen center diff so I wonder what the gain is without ATRAC

 

[JohnMed]

@Papa Wickey - Love the progress!

Question: Without the lockers and loss of ATRAC, would the left foot braking be a recipe for breaking the front diff? This just recently happened with the TFL 100 series, but it also had atrac. Not sure, but wanted to throw that concern out there.

 

[Papa Wickey]

@Papa Wickey - Love the progress!

Question: Without the lockers and loss of ATRAC, would the left foot braking be a recipe for breaking the front diff? This just recently happened with the TFL 100 series, but it also had atrac. Not sure, but wanted to throw that concern out there.

Most I've seen is the front diff exploding due to shock load, and I believe (still waiting on PDI to get back to me) the torque bias f/r or ratio ex: 1:1 vs 3:1 on the transfer torsen should give me more torque on the rear axle vice front if I do the toyota wave.

I think the TFL truck was also a 2 pinion front and mine should be the 4 pinion but I need to check the date code on my door jamb to double check. I had seen some stuff about Feb 2000+ got the 4 pinion. Eventually I plan to do lockers but the ZF swap is the main driver on my funds as it'll give me a better driving experience on and off road vs lockers only being used in dirt etc.

 

[obe12]

Alright, finally back from work trip and I should have around $3k or so to put towards the swap so I'll be ordering the lamik + harness shortly but I am also thinking since I will be losing ATRAC with the ZF swap I'm gonna give this transfer torsen from PDI a shot. PDI Transfer Torsen suits 80, 100 and 105 Full time Transfer Case - Performance Diesel Intercoolers Australia | 4WD Performance Parts - https://performancedieselintercoolers.com.au/product/pdi-transfer-torsen-for-full-time-transfer-case/ View attachment 4185889 I figure I might be able to do some BTM/left foot braking to make up for the loss of ATRAC since I don't yet have lockers at this time. Hoping to be splitting the 3F HF2A case in the next week or so.

The GX and 200 series have a torsen center diff so I wonder what the gain is without ATRAC

This is a stronger setup than and an open center differential for sure. I to avoid constant drag of spinning front axles and a driveshaft I went part time 4X4 with a front locker on my 100 series.

I don’t live in an area needing full time 4 wheel drive. My 80 is a full time and would benefit with this center Torsen center differential enhancement for sure. The 80 has a Viscus Coupler to aid not to have free spinning rear or front wheels, but far from a Torsen.

So, my take is how often you need all wheel drive, and use it off roading , slippery traction situations? The part time is a strong option if only needing 2wd…

When I wheel the 100 on overlanding trips, which I do 2000-4800 miles a trip and sometimes need 4WD, having selective front / rear lockers hasn’t given me any issues at all. Yes hard surfaces you do have steering issues if I leave the front locked.

I haven’t wheeled a Landcruiser hard like I have my mini Toyota / dual Detroit lockers , 5:29 gears, double transfer case, and get on two wheels. There in that situation, I prefer lockers not limited slips myself.
I don’t do that kind of wheeling now in either Landcruiser I own.

So to me, comes down to what your expectations are, and real world what you need.

Just a note, I haven’t had an issue wheeling and turning then command my air locker on and not stop, steady throttle and lock up before traction gives away and after obstacle air locker off and let off disengauge and just keep moving. Not all situations are the same for us… and driving styles…

Anyway my take … I would not hesitate to add this Torsen in my 80 series that has Full Time 4Wheel Drive to gain strength over an open center differential. Doing a part time in my 80 is harder and requires more work arounds to not cause ABS sensor / light issues.

Not having used ATRAC I don’t know what I am missing either.

Will PDI sell directly to you here in the States? I have their Intercooler system on my 80 and had to get through another seller in Australia.

Take care

Tex

 

[ChroniclerCruiser]

the TFL truck was also a 2 pinion

It was a 2005, so it would've been the 4-pinion, but part of their issue was that he applied the brake while ATRAC was doing its thing, which lead to ATRAC shutting off and thus the rollback. So not a hardware issue, but a skill issue - they themselves admitted that they didn't do any research on driving the 100 series off road prior to actually driving it. It still had highway tires when they took it off road.

 

[Papa Wickey]

This is a stronger setup than and an open center differential for sure. I to avoid constant drag of spinning front axles and a driveshaft I went part time 4X4 with a front locker on my 100 series.

I don’t live in an area needing full time 4 wheel drive. My 80 is a full time and would benefit with this center Torsen center differential enhancement for sure. The 80 has a Viscus Coupler to aid not to have free spinning rear or front wheels, but far from a Torsen.

So, my take is how often you need all wheel drive, and use it off roading , slippery traction situations? The part time is a strong option if only needing 2wd…

When I wheel the 100 on overlanding trips, which I do 2000-4800 miles a trip and sometimes need 4WD, having selective front / rear lockers hasn’t given me any issues at all. Yes hard surfaces you do have steering issues if I leave the front locked.

I haven’t wheeled a Landcruiser hard like I have my mini Toyota / dual Detroit lockers , 5:29 gears, double transfer case, and get on two wheels. There in that situation, I prefer lockers not limited slips myself.
I don’t do that kind of wheeling now in either Landcruiser I own.

So to me, comes down to what your expectations are, and real world what you need.

Just a note, I haven’t had an issue wheeling and turning then command my air locker on and not stop, steady throttle and lock up before traction gives away and after obstacle air locker off and let off disengauge and just keep moving. Not all situations are the same for us… and driving styles…

Anyway my take … I would not hesitate to add this Torsen in my 80 series that has Full Time 4Wheel Drive to gain strength over an open center differential. Doing a part time in my 80 is harder and requires more work arounds to not cause ABS sensor / light issues.

Not having used ATRAC I don’t know what I am missing either.

Will PDI sell directly to you here in the States? I have their Intercooler system on my 80 and had to get through another seller in Australia.

Take care

Tex

I mean I asked them for a invoice and they sent me one for about 900 AUD which after DHL broker fees and now 12.5% tariff should be around $700 landed cost in the states for me in SoCal. I considered the part time kit but having to get out and lock hubs plus it being around 1k and out of stock currently kinda turned me off of it. I'm already drastically modifiying the drivetrain so I don't mind trying to keep the full time 4wd either just as a safety net whenever I want to go places with bad traction.

The ultimate end goal would be triple locked so in that case I shouldn't need to worry about shock loading the front.

It is the most opportune time to do it though since I need to get the case torn down which I'm kinda thinking I'm going to have that be the next vid in the series and then take the parts that need a press elsewhere so I can have the mechanical side more or less done minus the TC shifter extension? and mounting plate. Then go the route of starting work on the electronics.