1kz-te engine sounds sick and sporadic odd knocking (1 Viewer)

[kzj78]

Hello all,

My friends KZJ78 engine is not sounding healthy at all. His wife ditched it this winter and that's what I am going to stick with as the cause ... but then, it could be totally unrelated.

First off, it just doesn't sound the same as it used too. Secondly, when it warms up say after 5 minutes, it tends to smoke much more than it used too and it has spats of sputtering that shake the engine something fierce with lots more black smoke.

He took it to a local shop and the guy, who had worked on these trucks back in africa (or his father did) said that it seemed to be misfiring, so he suggested changing the timing belt. Got that done along with the hydrolic tensioner and it seemed to be running better but still sounding sick.

Before I tow this up to Crushers (200+km's) or my friend takes it to another local mechanic, apparently Micheal from Rightdrive.ca says he now has a mechanic that has experience on these trucks, I thought I'd put it out there for some feedback from you all.

This video is of my engine - healthy

This video is of my friends engine - sick

Any thoughts?

Thanks

 

[kkpanayotov]

Have you tested the compression ? May be the turbo has been blown up ? The back smoke might come from there !

 

[BobBJ74]

Does it idle ok and misfire when you trottle up?. If so, it could be dirt in the fuel system or drawing in air from a loose or cracked fuel line.

 

[kbushnz]

Hi
Have heard this before...
After you do all the other basic checks...
Compression, turbo etc etc
Check the drive gear to the injector pump.
Sometimes the bolts fail and it will run, then slip and not drive the pump properly.
Then catch again.
Its a pain to get to, have to pull the front covers off....
Toyota replaced the bolts with bigger ones in later model engines....

 

[kzj78]

Thanks for the info guys. So, my friend decided to take his truck back to the mechanic that changed the timing belt. I called him this morning to pass the information you have provided and this is what he has come back with:

the rattling is coming from inside the engine and is suggesting that it is the timing gears that are at fault - does this sound right?

He checked the turbo and it's fine, he checked the bolts for the injection pump and they were also fine.

 

[kkpanayotov]

The sound if everything is OK with Timing is just unknown for me. If they are misaligned by 2 teeth it still should be working with much smoke but without noise. after the 3th teeth is starts making noise !

If Timing belt is OK check compression, possibility of valve problem. Check on Fuel injection nozzles. And final check on pressure after the fuel pump.

 

[Radd Cruisers]

The warm up happens after about 5 minutes and then the EGR system comes into play.

Smoke, rattling, poor performance and lack of power are all related to a faulty EGR system or system activation. I have not looked at your videos, but the symptoms you describe are all classic diesel EGR problems.

The EGR tends to come into play once the engine is over about 160F in temp.

Try disconnecting the EGR at the vacuum actuator near the exhaust manifold and see if your problems go away.

Also, correct valve settings are VERY important for these engines. The engine must be COLD when checked (not run for 24 hours at least).


~John

PS: if your engine has an -E on the end of it's name, it's a very troublesome little blob of metal. ie: 2LT-E, 1KZT-E etc.

 

[kzj78]

Try disconnecting the EGR at the vacuum actuator near the exhaust manifold and see if your problems go away.

Also, correct valve settings are VERY important for these engines. The engine must be COLD when checked (not run for 24 hours at least).

Thanks, will call the mechanic and have him check right away

PS: if you engine has an -E on the end of it's name, it's a very troublesome little blob of metal. ie: 2LT-E, 1KZT-E etc.

Yah, both of our trucks have the 1KZ-TE - going to have to pamper these ones - wish I had been on this forum a lot longer before making the purchase ... hindsight though so need to make the best of it.

 

[kzj78]

ok, spoke to the mechanic again ... he said he will check the EGR but he insists this is a problem with the timing gears.

He says the cam and crank aren't lined up. Does that mean the timing gears could be damaged?

Is there a timing gear repair kit?

 

[crushers]

didn't you just say that he replaced the timing belt? now the timing gears are out?

hello, am i the only one that sees this?

 

[kzj78]

I'm a total newb Wayne, remember ... at this point, I don't even know what I am supposed to be seeing.

If there is something wrong with this picture, say the word and I will have my friend tow it up to your place.


Just to recap ....

Timing belt and tensioner was done b/c he said the belt was worn and loose so I probably jumped.

Took it home, drove for another couple weeks, then ... after 5 minutes of warming, it starts to smoke, sputter and you get an awful rattling in the engine every so often.

EGR has yet to be checked, Compression has yet to be checked (he told me he did it but I highly doubt it). Now he tells me the gears are out.

Like I said, total newb, if this picture isn't right to you just say the word.

 

[crushers]

no offense to you at all but:
he replaces the belt
2 weeks later it needs gears?
he was just in there so that leads to the question did he do something inside that isn't correct?

I HATE those engines (right up there with the 2LTE) and would rather not work on it, once again, i like you, i love your wifes cooking, i like your truck, i dispise your engine.

i would say he messed up and doesn't want to go back inside unless it is on your penny.

<i have yet to see gears go bad on the engines especially the way you look after that truck>

 

[cicak]

didn't you just say that he replaced the timing belt? now the timing gears are out?

hello, am i the only one that sees this?

nope but I am keeping mum on this I am not a 1KZ expert despite pulling them apart.

Yup redo the timing belt and align the dots up with the no cylinder again.

Damage probably already done - bent valves maybe?

 

[kbushnz]

Seems a little suspect. But he could be correct..

IMHO
Because the cam is driven from the injector pump gear....
The injector pump is driven vis a idler gear then onto the crankshaft. (inside the engine front alloy covers sealed lubed using engine oil)
The idler gear is the one which can fail with the bolts shearing. This puts the pump out of time with crankshaft and follows on that the cam is then out of time with crankshaft.

I have a picture of the gear train set-up in an engine manual....

I would not run this motor until you investigate it in more detail.

The EGR issue makes it run rough... but not that rough.

I have had mine stuck open.. It just felt slow and unresponsive and idled lumpy. But wasn't all that noisy as in the video.

Also as I said in a post earlier, I have heard this noise before as a work mate had the same issue.

Hopefully the valves haven't hit anything yet.

Interested in what you eventually find.

 

[kkpanayotov]

As i have written before... Check compression, it will give you a certain answer if the hole engine will have to be open for service or not.
As the others say "E" - engine is bad... i don't know the E here we have only those without the E and the look that i have is on those clear engines.

 

[crushers]

can the engine run with the idler gear bolts sheared off?

Seems a little suspect. But he could be correct..


The idler gear is the one which can fail with the bolts shearing. This puts the pump out of time with crankshaft and follows on that the cam is then out of time with crankshaft.

Interested in what you eventually find.

 

[kbushnz]

Being an idler gear it only sit over a shaft.
My mates one had one bolt sheared and one partially.
It would make a horrible noise and run like a bag of bolts as the gear would rattle between the two gears either side. And put the timing slightly out. But enough to have an effect.
Toyota later changed the design and put in larger bolts with a new gear with bigger holes.
Its mentioned somewhere on this forum but in the 90 series area.

 

[crushers]

i am trying to picture this in my head
one bolt sheared off
the gear moving back and forth
timing out

i just can not see that happening, IF the timing gets out due to such an occurance then you would think it could do it again shutting down the engine.

this is a discussion, NOT a "that is BS" statement. i can usually 'see' it, this i can't.

can you expand on your budy's experience?

 

[kkpanayotov]

From my experience and the problems we had with 2LT engine , 1 tooth difference is possible, 2 will get the engine bad but still little smoke + lack of power, on the 3th tooth - no power, lots of smoke but still running.
If as you said the Bolt is shattered and gear is moving, all possible timing will be lost and as "crushers" said the engine will be "killed". I stick to his statement !
If the engine is Ok within the first 5 minutes, that means the temperature difference opens more the problem... heat expands the metal. I cannot say anything to the "E" ending of the Engine but... as far as the normal 1KZ-T goes i think compression problem ( faulty timing + valves + turbo).

 

[crushers]

if you REALLY want me to take a look at it then we float it up here and tear into it.
it won't be cheap.

i suspect the install is suspect. (does that make any sense at all?)